We need another striker?

[Spionkop69]

Do we? Do we really?

I've always thought that we did because for the past 2 seasons when Torres has been injured, we've been saddled with the young, raw and inexperienced N'gog (who to be fair has still scored goals) and lets face it he only cost us £1.5m.

But are we overlooking one thing? Or perhaps even one player?

Dirk Kuyt. Is the reason we think or believe we want another striker, because, for the past two seasons, the player we bought to be a our front line striker had been utilised at RM by our previous manager. Torres or no Torres up front.

Seeing as we now have Cole, Maxi, Jovanovic and even Johnson (if we played Kelly or Darby at RB) for the wide berths within the squad. Can Dirk revert to his previous role of striker?

We may not have have a dearth of world class strikers (who has?) but if we were playing 4-4-2 which Roy has previously preferred then why can't Dirk play up alongside Torres. Yes, the whole 4-5-1 argument is there with Stevie or Joe or even Dani in the hole but if we played 4-4-2 then why couldn't Dirk be consdiered alongside Torres?

Discuss!

 

[Avmenon]

I hope he could, Spion..but he did come with a bunch of expectations that were largely unmet.

He did play as first striker for a good bit and was largely unmpressive.

The fact that he then thrived in a position that he was shunted off to speaks to his credit; even more so that he's now employed in that position for the Netherlands by and large.

But putting him back in striker?

Have my doubts 🙁

Still love him tho.

 

[KopPoNok]

Kuyt can't lead the line like Torres, Ngog though.

 

[keniget]

Jovanovic and Babel also who like to play up front. As only Torres is capable of playing up front on his own, we should certainly be prepared to play two up front this season.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=KopPoNok link=topic=41413.msg1153367#msg1153367 date=1281689211]
Kuyt can't lead the line like Torres, Ngog though.
[/quote]

He doesn't need to if there's two strikers up there, does he?

Perhaps some of Torres' injury woes are due to him leading the line on his own? He's not a strong player in build and playing up on your own against the brute force and brutality of Prem CB's must have taken some toll on him.

I'm not saying he IS the answer, but he surely is an option?

 

[Richey]

I think if we could assume that Torres would be able to stay fit for most of the reason and be able to at least play the majority of league games then we could probably cope with what we have.

However, that is unlikely. He is bound to get injured. So having either N'gog and Kuyt as our only available strikers, whether only one plays or both together, doesn't look quite so appealing.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41413.msg1153366#msg1153366 date=1281689171]
I hope he could, Spion..but he did come with a bunch of expectations that were largely unmet.

He did play as first striker for a good bit and was largely unmpressive.

The fact that he then thrived in a position that he was shunted off to speaks to his credit; even more so that he's now employed in that position for the Netherlands by and large.

But putting him back in striker?

Have my doubts 🙁

Still love him tho.
[/quote]

Oh I have some doubts too but I can see that we may not have the money to spend and therefore think he should be considered at the very least. Every team needs a Dirk Kuyt imo, but I'd prefer to see Johnson at RM and Kelly at RB with Dirk up front alongside torres.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=41413.msg1153375#msg1153375 date=1281689609]
He is bound to get injured. So having either N'gog and Kuyt as our only available strikers, whether only one plays or both together, doesn't look quite so appealing.
[/quote]

That's a fair point Richey but if we played N'gog and Kuyt up front with support from the likes of Cole, Gerrard, Aquilani, Jovanovic, Pachecho etc its not total doom and gloom.

Take Utd as an example, what if Rooney were to get injured? They have the perma injured Welsh midget to fall back on and who else? Note to the Prem CB's: crock rooney!!

Yes we need to improve, but if we can't afford to or if we get Crouch, then imo Crouch and Kuyt doesn't seem that appealing. But nothing does when Torres is in your squad!

 

[Dreambeliever]

Barring a big injury to Torres I would say no.

We have Jova, Cole, Gerrard, Torres, Kuyt Peaches, Nemeth and wash to get goals.

Our defence is our biggest concern this season.

 

[KopPoNok]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=41413.msg1153374#msg1153374 date=1281689557]
[quote author=KopPoNok link=topic=41413.msg1153367#msg1153367 date=1281689211]
Kuyt can't lead the line like Torres, Ngog though.
[/quote]

He doesn't need to if there's two strikers up there, does he?

Perhaps some of Torres' injury woes are due to him leading the line on his own? He's not a strong player in build and playing up on your own against the brute force and brutality of Prem CB's must have taken some toll on him.

I'm not saying he IS the answer, but he surely is an option?
[/quote]

But Torres is rubbish when he's playing with another striker, and Kuyt don't shit goals like david villa.

I was thinking of some cheaper alternatives who doesn't mind being a bench warmer: trezeguet, kanoute type of player.

 

[Spionkop69]

So Kanoute and trezeguet won't come to warm the bench, so who are these "cheaper alternatives"?

And when have you seen Torres play up front with another except for Spain? Where they just won both competitions!

 

[KopPoNok]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=41413.msg1153388#msg1153388 date=1281690198]
So Kanoute and trezeguet won't come to warm the bench, so who are these "cheaper alternatives"?

And when have you seen Torres play up front with another except for Spain? Where they just won both competitions!
[/quote]

I'm the minority here, I actually don't mind if we keep playing Ngog as the backup striker. He's actually better than Kuyt and Babel when asked to play as a lone striker.

Torres has played along Keane, Kuyt, Crouch, Voronin and Ngog before, but I think he scored more when played as a lone striker if my memory served me right.

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=41413.msg1153380#msg1153380 date=1281689891]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=41413.msg1153375#msg1153375 date=1281689609]
He is bound to get injured. So having either N'gog and Kuyt as our only available strikers, whether only one plays or both together, doesn't look quite so appealing.
[/quote]

That's a fair point Richey but if we played N'gog and Kuyt up front with support from the likes of Cole, Gerrard, Aquilani, Jovanovic, Pachecho etc its not total doom and gloom.

Take Utd as an example, what if Rooney were to get injured? They have the perma injured Welsh midget to fall back on and who else? Note to the Prem CB's: crock rooney!!

Yes we need to improve, but if we can't afford to or if we get Crouch, then imo Crouch and Kuyt doesn't seem that appealing. But nothing does when Torres is in your squad!
[/quote]

Erm, United have Rooney, Berbatov, Hernandez, Macheda and Owen - and they've just signed another young striker for £7m. Strange example to choose.

 

[KopPoNok]

By the way, do we have the players to play a flat 4-4-2? Kuyt is not a winger, neither is Jovanovic. I guess our best hope will be Cole and Maxi.

 

[mark1975]

I still think we do. Torres and N'Gog are the only two natural strikers, I'm unconvinced at having to rely on anyone other than Torres for any length of time. Jovanovic, Babel and Kuyt don't look natural enough leading the line, especially alone as will probably be the case.

 

[dmishra]

Yes, we do. I don't rate N'gog and I think Kuyt can play up front only if paired with someone else. He doesn't have the pace or size to play up top alone. If we had money, I would go for Bent and more reluctantly, Carlton Cole. If we have no money, we should look for someone like Kanoute/Santa Cruz/Rodallega, or anyone who we can bring in relatively cheaply.

It's imperative that we do because N'gog is not good enough.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=41413.msg1153380#msg1153380 date=1281689891]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=41413.msg1153375#msg1153375 date=1281689609]
He is bound to get injured. So having either N'gog and Kuyt as our only available strikers, whether only one plays or both together, doesn't look quite so appealing.
[/quote]

That's a fair point Richey but if we played N'gog and Kuyt up front with support from the likes of Cole, Gerrard, Aquilani, Jovanovic, Pachecho etc its not total doom and gloom.

Take Utd as an example, what if Rooney were to get injured? They have the perma injured Welsh midget to fall back on and who else? Note to the Prem CB's: crock rooney!!

Yes we need to improve, but if we can't afford to or if we get Crouch, then imo Crouch and Kuyt doesn't seem that appealing. But nothing does when Torres is in your squad!
[/quote]


Yeh, we did talk about this.

You thought Kuyt would be a good striker somewhere in between the quality of Torres and the kids.

He might, but yes, it's an option that should be considered..

I think Utd isnt a good example though, Spion..Aside from Owen they have Berbatov and Hernandez, plus Macheda (who was admittedly better than our kids wen he burst on the scene, God knows whats happened to him).

Is that new kid Bebe a striker?

If the Insua sale goes through (whats happened with that anyway?) then I'd think LB is a priority...The trouble with having Poulsen is that whilst he 's useful insurance whilst the Mascher debacle is playing out, once Mascher's gone there'll be a lot of question marks over his abiity to replace Mascher and whether we really have DM covered..

As for Lucas, whilst I agree that he's received mre than a fair amount of criticism here I still hope he's sold as he's clearly not a DM and he's better played further forward...I think we already have cover in those areas.

Ideally,new LB, sell Insua.

New DM (Poulsen as cover) - but I think Hodgson should earmark funds for this in January depending on how Poulsen plays over the nxt 2 weeks.)

New striker.

Your suggestion of Kelly as RB is interesting though; youre right in that having Johnson at RM might play to his strengths..

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=41413.msg1153375#msg1153375 date=1281689609]
I think if we could assume that Torres would be able to stay fit for most of the reason and be able to at least play the majority of league games then we could probably cope with what we have.

However, that is unlikely. He is bound to get injured. So having either N'gog and Kuyt as our only available strikers, whether only one plays or both together, doesn't look quite so appealing.
[/quote]

IMO it is the single most important reason we finished outside the Top 4 last season. Neither Kuyt nor N'Gog are good enough ... we need a quality back up striker ASAP.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41413.msg1153515#msg1153515 date=1281699750]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=41413.msg1153375#msg1153375 date=1281689609]
I think if we could assume that Torres would be able to stay fit for most of the reason and be able to at least play the majority of league games then we could probably cope with what we have.

However, that is unlikely. He is bound to get injured. So having either N'gog and Kuyt as our only available strikers, whether only one plays or both together, doesn't look quite so appealing.
[/quote]

IMO it is the single most important reason we finished outside the Top 4 last season. Neither Kuyt nor N'Gog are good enough ... we need a quality back up striker ASAP.
[/quote]

Problem is though that if we are planning on playing Torres on his own up front then what do we really have to offer a new signing? Games when he is injured as well as a few minor cup matches with the rest of the dregs of the squad?

 

[Avmenon]

One issue to consider as well is exactly how far Pacheco (and to an extent Nemeth) is from the first team.

 

[Wilko7]

We still need another striker.

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=41413.msg1153519#msg1153519 date=1281700642]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41413.msg1153515#msg1153515 date=1281699750]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=41413.msg1153375#msg1153375 date=1281689609]
I think if we could assume that Torres would be able to stay fit for most of the reason and be able to at least play the majority of league games then we could probably cope with what we have.

However, that is unlikely. He is bound to get injured. So having either N'gog and Kuyt as our only available strikers, whether only one plays or both together, doesn't look quite so appealing.
[/quote]

IMO it is the single most important reason we finished outside the Top 4 last season. Neither Kuyt nor N'Gog are good enough ... we need a quality back up striker ASAP.
[/quote]

The best solution would be to get a player that can play alone upfront and on the wing. Like Aguero, David Villa...

Problem is though that if we are planning on playing Torres on his own up front then what do we really have to offer a new signing? Games when he is injured as well as a few minor cup matches with the rest of the dregs of the squad?
[/quote]

 

[Khalido]

Lone striker role demands PACE as well as quality, which is why Kuyt is not suitable, nor was Crouch when we had him.
If Torres gets injured we are left with:

Kuyt - Retired striker with no pace
Babel - never convinced in that role
Ngog - Not good enough as shown last season
Jovanovic - Doesn't play that role.

Bottom line - If we do not get a new striker we will be in serious trouble.

 

[Judge Jules]

Jovanovic has played that role in his time. I watched him quite carefully for Serbia in the World Cup and if anything I was more impressed with him when he played centrally in spells, as his strength on the ball struck me more than his dribbling skill. Overall, though, I'd agree that another option would be helpful. Trouble is we probably have to sell one of those others before we can replace him.

 

[Le Chacal]

We need a striker since Rafa didnt replace Keane.
That cost us the title that season and 4th place last year.

Yes we still do need another striker

 

[Khalido]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41413.msg1153552#msg1153552 date=1281704100]
Jovanovic has played that role in his time. I watched him quite carefully for Serbia in the World Cup and if anything I was more impressed with him when he played centrally in spells. Overall, though, I'd agree that another option would be helpful. Trouble is we probably have to sell one of those others before we can replace him.
[/quote]

I'm hoping the majority of the money from the anticipated Mascherano transfer will be used on a quality striker. I think there is a danger that we can convince ourselves that we have enough back-up (as Rafa did last season), then as soon as Torres is out, we look toothless up front.

Hopefully Roy is scouring the globe for one now!

 

[Modo]

This is getting boring...

We all agree that we need a new striker. The experts say that we need a backup striker.
And still, we keep being linked to midfielders.

At this point I really don't care who bring in I'd even be happy if we got Sheringham...

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=41413.msg1153519#msg1153519 date=1281700642]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41413.msg1153515#msg1153515 date=1281699750]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=41413.msg1153375#msg1153375 date=1281689609]
I think if we could assume that Torres would be able to stay fit for most of the reason and be able to at least play the majority of league games then we could probably cope with what we have.

However, that is unlikely. He is bound to get injured. So having either N'gog and Kuyt as our only available strikers, whether only one plays or both together, doesn't look quite so appealing.
[/quote]

IMO it is the single most important reason we finished outside the Top 4 last season. Neither Kuyt nor N'Gog are good enough ... we need a quality back up striker ASAP.
[/quote]

Problem is though that if we are planning on playing Torres on his own up front then what do we really have to offer a new signing? Games when he is injured as well as a few minor cup matches with the rest of the dregs of the squad?
[/quote]

He really would get a lot of game time. 19 matches in Europe if we make the final, subbing Torres as he rarely lasts the full 90, standing in for Torres when injured or unavailable (national duty etc.), LC, maybe FAC, he should easily make 20 - 25 starts and double that with sub appearances.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=41413.msg1153381#msg1153381 date=1281689974]
Barring a big injury to Torres I would say no.

We have Jova, Cole, Gerrard, Torres, Kuyt Peaches, Nemeth and wash to get goals.

Our defence is our biggest concern this season.
[/quote]

..... and not one of those is now recognised as a quality front-line striker. Lacking a back-up to Torres was criminal last season and cost us 4th. Doing the same again this season would be mind-numbingly inane.