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US Election thread - Kamala v Donald

Agreed, I think a lot of people just didn't bother voting because no one was going to actively try to stop what's going on in the middle east.
Also...Kamala just isn't very likeable.

I mean she tried to become the democratic candidate before and failed miserably. Dems shot themselves in the foot. Should have had a candidate ready after Biden.
 
I'm surprised nobody picked up on her sharp analytical skills, inspiring rhetoric and obvious world leadership potential. Not to mention her many accomplishments.

It's a mystery.
 
I'm surprised nobody picked up on her sharp analytical skills, inspiring rhetoric and obvious world leadership potential. Not to mention her many accomplishments.

It's a mystery.
I detect some irony but since when all those qualities have been required to become President of the US?
 
Agreed, I think a lot of people just didn't bother voting because no one was going to actively try to stop what's going on in the middle east.
Also...Kamala just isn't very likeable.

I mean she tried to become the democratic candidate before and failed miserably. Dems shot themselves in the foot. Should have had a candidate ready after Biden.

She would probably have won if they had followed the Bernie Sanders route of "bread and butter". I doubt anyone in the US cares about what happen overseas. They just want to improve the daily life and the economy.
50-70% turnout across the US. People don't care or just can't see that any vote would make a difference.
 
She would probably have won if they had followed the Bernie Sanders route of "bread and butter". I doubt anyone in the US cares about what happen overseas. They just want to improve the daily life and the economy.
50-70% turnout across the US. People don't care or just can't see that any vote would make a difference.

Is likely the right answer ...

I think Harris was an average candidate at best (It just stands out to me how unpopular she was in the early running for President in 2020). The democrats can do better - but then again, so can the Republicans.

I do hope that Trump somehow ends the war realities in Asia (hopefully without screwing Ukraine, or Europe) & the ME.
 
Not sure if turnout is especially low to be honest, given that we don't have the final figures yet. Almost certainly down on 2020, but higher than other years.

It also looks like there were a higher number of votes in 2024 in most of the swing states than in 2020.
 
Don’t forget that Harris was annointed the Dem nominee after Obama & Schumer deposed Biden. That didn’t sit well with many typical Dem voters who weren’t caught up in all the Trump is Hitler pablum.
 
America really decided to vote a misogynistic narcissist over a woman, twice!
The only time the orange narcissist lost was against a senile old man.
 
A very obvious guide for how not to run a campaign. If they'd actually wanted Harris as candidate, they would have made her much more present throughout Biden's term. It was very clear she was a back up. If the party itself doesn't believe in her (and didn't even run their own democratic process to select her) then they can't really expect to get a record turn out.

She fell into the old Trump playbook of focusing too much of her campaign on 'i'm not Trump' and didn't have any clear policies that were key to her campaign.

On paper, beating Trump in this election should have been easy - but they ran the whole thing terribly. The only thing they have done admirably is lose graciously (so far) and ensured a peaceful handover of power.
 
One solution could be to run a better woman candidate.
Seriously..? THAT was the issue Vs a racist rapist, convicted of 34 felonies, who incited an insurrection? Twice?!?

We really shouldn't be claiming that the 'quality' of the female candidate was the problem here....
 
To be fair, surely Kamala, as a highly qualified former prosecutor, who's been a politician for ages and has spent the last 4 years serving as the f@#$ing VP, IS a better candidate than a convicted felon, who's also a convicted rapist, who's already caused the death of several people by trying to overthrow the government when he lost last time, and who's entire campaign was centered around extracting vengeance on all of his enemies, once he regained power..?!?!?!?!

Jesus, Richey... Are you reading what you're typing, mate?
 
To be fair, surely Kamala, as a highly qualified former prosecutor, who's been a politician for ages and has spent the last 4 years serving as the f@#$ing VP, IS a better candidate than a convicted felon, who's also a convicted rapist, who's already caused the death of several people by trying to overthrow the government when he lost last time, and who's entire campaign was centered around extracting vengeance on all of his enemies, once he regained power..?!?!?!?!

Jesus, Richey... Are you reading what you're typing, mate?

Granted. But it means nothing, as she lost.

By better, they need someone who is better at appealing to the electorate and actually winning.
 
Jesus Christ himself could have run against him yesterday, and that neo-nazi rapist would still have won... Because most of this country WANTS the hate and the nationalism that he brings. Most of this country is still living back in the f@#$ing pilgrim days. It's really THAT simple.
 
With all respect, I think maybe you are a little too bought in on the rhetoric about Trump and it blinds you to the harsh reality about Kamala Harris that 70+ million voters (including many D's, many minorities, many women) saw.

She's an Obama sock puppet who was installed after they carried out a coup against the sitting (and rightfully elected) president. The fact that she got zero votes for president in her last race before dropping out should tell you how she is viewed by her own party. She was reluctantly chosen as VP because identity politics gets Dems to the polls. She did literally nothing for 4 years, most notably in her role as Border Czar. According to her former colleagues, she tried very few substantive cases as a prosecutor, and slept her way into political prominence with a married man, Willy Brown.

She answered every policy question with "I was raised in a middle class neighborhood". She wouldn't sit for interviews or take press conferences after her appointment. She articulated no substantive policy positions until the last few weeks, and some of those she stole straight from Trump (no taxation of tips, for example). She scolded men who wouldn't vote for her. Her surrogates guilted black men if they didn't vote for her.

She wouldn't go on Rogan's podcast unless he came to her, while both Trump and Vance did. Seems small, but in an election like this that mattered.

Her platform consisted of calling Trump Hitler, babbling about "joy comes in the morning" in an affected southern accent, and scaring the bejeebers out of her supporters with how Trump was going to make them all slaves or put them in political prison camps.

I won't go on. She tried to be the "I'm not Trump" candidate, which didn't take any effort. Of course, 349,999,999 other American fit that description so why vote for her?

Regular Americans outside the big blue cities looked at her and wondered, "how on earth is she going to do anything good for me?"
 
I'm not claiming that she did things well. I'm pointing out what she was running against, and that it shouldn't matter mattered. But this place is sick, so...
 
I'm not claiming that she did things well. I'm pointing out what she was running against, and that it shouldn't matter mattered. But this place is sick, so...

I think a lot of people would rightly claim Hillary caused a good few peoples death also.
Harris is part of the genocidal enabling (at best) genocide committing (at worst) administration.

I don't think either of them raped anyone though so they do have that going for them.

Also, to be clear re which camp I sit in. Same as UK election.
F*** all the lying, cheating MFs.
 
My point is simply that when you're going against a neo-nazi rapist, in a decent country, simply not being a neo-nazi rapist SHOULD be enough.
 
The best thing about Donald Trump is that he doesn't keep his promises, and has no loyalty to any cause.

You could say the same about Kamala. Both insipid, meandering fools. Nothing will change in the United States.

They're all be no deportations, no wars. No shift in Israel - Palestine issue. Just increasingly waning influence overseas and more and more school shootings. It's China's world now. We all just live in it.
 
I'll take you up on that. I bet that within 6 months the Ukraine war is done and Iran has backed off of Israel. Israel/Gaza is trickier but I still think Trump wants to calm that down. He's not a big fan of funding foreign wars.

He'll act swiftly on the border and deporting illegal immigrants. He'll give Kennedy room and support to push healthcare. I'd absolutely love if he could abolish federal income taxes and black hole the IRS but even my optimism has limits.

And he might get to appoint 2 more Supreme Court Justices, which would be historically unprecedented for a single president.
 
Honestly, I don't think Trump even knows what a Neo Nazi is or what fascism is.
He's just a business man saying whatever his advisors are telling him to say in order to win.

I don't think he cares if it's female chief of staff or not. Does it look good? Do people like it? Will it cost me anything?
Sure, let's do it.

Racism? My driver is black, what are you talking about?

It's that vibe.

His first and only reality check came when he got a piece of his ear shot off.

Listening to Donald Trump talk is like listening to one of those presentations at work when someone talks without actually knowing what he's talking about.
"We're gonna strengthen the economy. Make it stronger than ever before. Oh it's gonna be strong, so strong."

I remember when people got hung up on him telling the "Proud boys" to stand back and stand by.
He probably just meant to say "stand back" but then added "stand by" because it sounded cool and not really knowing how it could be interpreted.

So Modo, what are you trying to say?
That he's a clown and I don't fear him.
I fear the people he brought with him though.
 
What analysts dont really talk about is Turnout ratings, what we re seeing is a significant drop compared to 2020.
As we speak, Harris got just short of 69 Mio. votes and Trump 72.6 Mio.

Now compare that to Biden's 81.2 Mio and Trump's 74.2 Mio votes in 2020.

That is 14 Mio less voters than 2020 election

What we see is Trump's base was mobilized for the vote but a significant drop for Harris.
69M is better than what H. Clinton got but still 12 Mio less than Biden in 2020.
Those are not definitive results but turnout is far from Historical like Trump would obviously brag about.

When you do the math, she lost MI, PA, Wis, GA for a combined 350k votes...litterally nothing. It was a very fine margin unlike what most say, due mainly to abstention in Dem's ranks.
the slim difference is in these swing states' big cities like Detroit, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Atlanta where Harris got slightly less votes than Biden 4 years ago and allowed Trump to flip those states.

Why the turnout drop then?

Harris had a short campaign vs Trump's 4 years, she probably wasnt ready, no primaries to show more a programme or who she really was and was still quite unpopular in Dem's ranks, esp with the progressive wing.
The Gaza war cost her votes esp. in Michigan.
And of course, we cannot forget Musk's X factor with Putin's help for the final push these last few months, buying votes, sharing lies and fake news.

X was probabbly the decisive factor for that 350K difference.

Musk must be a happy man, he didnt invest all these millions in the campaign for nothing, Trump will pay him back big time with Goverment contracts, even more Tax cuts and a position in DC.

Sorry if this is harsh, but this seems like eurocentric analysis, which is throwing blame on everything bar perhaps the people who made this 'easier' for Trump.

"It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them. First, it was the white working class, and now it is Latino and Black workers as well. While the Democratic leadership defends the status quo, the American people are angry and want change. And they're right." -Bernie Sanders

If Democrats want to win elections again, this is what they have to understand. The Democrats were once the party of the working poor, regardless of race. In 1988, the Democrats won West Virginia, while losing California and Vermont. But since, the party has abandoned the working poor and progressively moved to only talking about "the middle class" and has focused more and more on appealing to highly educated white people with greater and greater focus on socially progressive issues, and if we're honest, lately it's increasingly more and more fringe socially progressive positions that even most Democrats are coming to believe are nonsense.

The Democrats were able to hang on for a while because the Republican party was even more elitist. It's not like John McCain and Mitt Romney even tried to appeal to the working poor. But then Donald Trump came along, and compared to the increasingly elitist Democrats, the working poor finally had someone who at least spoke to their concerns (despite it being self-serving bullshit).

I know that many are having difficulty understanding how a majority of voters could vote for an authoritarian misogynistic bigot, but everyone I see that cannot understand this is either 'highly' educated (you know, college degree +) and/or earns considerably more than average. They seemingly cannot understand what it is like to have to compete with illegal immigrants* (please see below) for jobs and housing, so they write off all such anger as nothing more than bigotry. Well, this is the luxury of being highly educated and financially secure; you can prioritize things like democracy and decency and the environment and racism and women's rights and gay rights and trans rights and preferred pronouns over the need to make ends meet and provide basic necessities for your children.

If I'd have voted, I would have voted for Kamala Harris in this election (or more correctly, I voted against Donald Trump) because I would have had the luxury to do so. But unless the Democratic party wakes the fuck up and starts actually caring about and actually listening to the working poor again, the same old folk will be whining like the entitled shits they are after every fucking election.


* I definitely don't blame immigrants at all for what happened as FYI, and think that some of the illegal immigrants I personally knew are some of the nicest and most admirable people I've ever met. I completely oppose demonization, and singling them out as a criminal threat is definitely based in racism.

But as policy, the US shouldn't be allowing in low-skill immigrants (at least currently) except for under special programs in areas where it is genuinely needed, most notably for seasonal agricultural labor. Employers that break the law in order to drive down wages should be severely punished. And the asylum system is brutally abused and needs to be dramatically reformed and limited. So I distinguish between demonizing immigrants themselves and recognizing that allowing low-skilled immigrants drives down wages and drives up the costs of rental housing (sometimes dramatically in areas with large influxes) at the bottom end of the income spectrum and thus should be severely limited.

Immigration/asylum reform is just one small piece of the puzzle (although a necessary one), and other policies would be significant increases to the minimum wage nationwide (Though I worry if this will actually work - varying papers on the matter give me much concern), expanding the earned income tax credit, increasing rental subsidies, increasing the housing inventory, making certain aspects of real estate investment illegal or taxed at higher rates, increasing food assistance, increased healthcare subsidies and other programs for free or low-cost healthcare, increasing workforce training and apprenticeship programs, and increasing spending on public works projects. And pay for these things with the necessary increase (it won't be drastic - i.e. no need to scare those folks!) in taxation on the rich (at least the top 5%). Don't see an issue with increasing taxes on capital gains in general, as well as corporate taxes and penalize those that game the corporate tax system.
 
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