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Transfer Rumours 21/22

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momoWASboss said:
We have spent a shit loads of money. We pay players a shit load of money. And people still want more?
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I swore on King Richards life that we wouldnt do this, but:

We're 14th in the table in regards to net spending in the last 10 years of all clubs in Europe.
Everton, Villa and West Ham are above us.

In terms of money spent we're 7th, but 200-500 mill behind the the other top teams.

Now, its not about spending the most money. We're not funded by Oil countries or war criminals. Its about spending wisely. But during these last years there have been opportunities for us to spend on an extra midfielder, defender or attacker that would have seen us win more trophies.

This season feels like it could end up a waste if we dont spend on a midfielder. Backing Klopp with an additional 20-40 mill £ could be the difference in winning something.

Its not asking for much, its asking for the sensible thing to do. We're not Utd fans crying for 200 mill extra after spending 1,3 billion in the last 10 years.
 
Hansern said:
I swore on King Richards life that we wouldnt do this, but:

We're 14th in the table in regards to net spending in the last 10 years of all clubs in Europe.
Everton, Villa and West Ham are above us.

In terms of money spent we're 7th, but 200-500 mill behind the the other top teams.

Now, its not about spending the most money. We're not funded by Oil countries or war criminals. Its about spending wisely. But during these last years there have been opportunities for us to spend on an extra midfielder, defender or attacker that would have seen us win more trophies.

This season feels like it could end up a waste if we dont spend on a midfielder. Backing Klopp with an additional 20-40 mill £ could be the difference in winning something.

Its not asking for much, its asking for the sensible thing to do. We're not Utd fans crying for 200 mill extra after spending 1,3 billion in the last 10 years.
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Net spend is fucking bollocks. You can’t just go spends minus sales equals we aren’t investing. It’s not that simple.

Look at everything. Signing on fees, agent fees, wages, bonuses, club investments, the whole bloody lot.

We aren’t scrimping. We spend differently to other sides.
 
momoWASboss said:
Net spend is fucking bollocks. You can’t just go spends minus sales equals we aren’t investing. It’s not that simple.

Look at everything. Signing on fees, agent fees, wages, bonuses, club investments, the whole bloody lot.

We aren’t scrimping. We spend differently to other sides.
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We are in a very healthy situation financially these days, so spending 20-40 mill £ on a midfielder wont break us.
Its getting in front of the curve that is coming. Next season we might need 3 midfielders and will have to spend money regardless.
 
I think we are a bit too inflexible in the transfer market, and are too clever for our own good.

Last window we fked around and signed Luis Diaz only because Spurs went after him. This summer we spent a shit ton on Nunez who can barely control a ball, and almost signed Tchouameni. When we couldn't get him, we didn't go for anyone else, presumably because we believe Bellingham will sign for us next season. He won't - he'll go to City or Real.

We could easily have snapped up Matheus Nunes for less than 40m and would be in much less of a pickle now. Or put in a bid for Tielemans, Bissouma, or even Bruno Guimares before he went to Newcastle. But we didn't because these were all 'less than perfect' signings, or 'not a bargain', which wouldn't have made Julian Ward look like the genius that he wants to be.
 
And how would we pay them? That’s easier next season when we lose something close to half a million a week from the wage bill. Milner, Keita, ox, Firmino all will be gone.

£20 million is still a lot of money. On something we may not want or need in 12 months or even actually work.
 
momoWASboss said:
I completely disagree. De Bruyne is one of the most consistent players in the league. Every time I watch him play he’s influencing. The same can’t be said for Salah in 2022.
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Didn't influence shit in the CL though did he? Got hauled off.

Beginning of last season he was very much up and down and only really kicked on from 2nd half.
 
Do city sign or retain any sick notes? I can’t think of many, maybe Aguero but he was exceptional and probably justified it. De Bruyne a little bit prone to injury but again exceptional.

It seems like something we really need to work harder on with the recruitment side, injury proneness makes a huge difference when moving players on. They’d have gotten fuck all for Jesus and Zinchenko if they had the injury records some of our lads have.
 
momoWASboss said:
And how would we pay them? That’s easier next season when we lose something close to half a million a week from the wage bill. Milner, Keita, ox, Firmino all will be gone.

£20 million is still a lot of money. On something we may not want or need in 12 months or even actually work.
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20 million is a pittance when you consider the amount at stake
 
Markeh said:
Do city sign or retain any sick notes? I can’t think of many, maybe Aguero but he was exceptional and probably justified it. De Bruyne a little bit prone to injury but again exceptional.

It seems like something we really need to work harder on with the recruitment side, injury proneness makes a huge difference when moving players on. They’d have gotten fuck all for Jesus and Zinchenko if they had the injury records some of our lads have.
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Not really, just the 2 you mentioned really.

Next closest are probably Gundogan and Ake.
 
Markeh said:
Do city sign or retain any sick notes? I can’t think of many, maybe Aguero but he was exceptional and probably justified it. De Bruyne a little bit prone to injury but again exceptional.

It seems like something we really need to work harder on with the recruitment side, injury proneness makes a huge difference when moving players on. They’d have gotten fuck all for Jesus and Zinchenko if they had the injury records some of our lads have.
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De Bruyne, Stones, Laporte and probably a couple of more as well. Every squad have their issues I reckon.
 
Hansern said:
I swore on King Richards life that we wouldnt do this, but:

We're 14th in the table in regards to net spending in the last 10 years of all clubs in Europe.
Everton, Villa and West Ham are above us.

In terms of money spent we're 7th, but 200-500 mill behind the the other top teams.

Now, its not about spending the most money. We're not funded by Oil countries or war criminals. Its about spending wisely. But during these last years there have been opportunities for us to spend on an extra midfielder, defender or attacker that would have seen us win more trophies.

This season feels like it could end up a waste if we dont spend on a midfielder. Backing Klopp with an additional 20-40 mill £ could be the difference in winning something.

Its not asking for much, its asking for the sensible thing to do. We're not Utd fans crying for 200 mill extra after spending 1,3 billion in the last 10 years.
Click to expand...
I'm assuming you're basing these figures on the CIES Football Observatory report? No idea what those guys are smoking but they have our net spend over the last 10 years at €341m. Per the accounts, it is £540m (accounts basis) or £501m (net cash paid). These figures are taken from the accounts, all I've done is add them up. The difference between the two figures is the impact of transfers being paid for by instalments.
I'm afraid you really shouldn't place too much reliance on the figures these odd little analysis boutiques produce, probably because they don't actually look at club's accounts, they just add up figures journalists quote when individual deals get done (which are usually wrong, even if well intentioned). I think you only need to look at CIES's player valuation estimates to appreciate the margin of error they are working too.
Also, for context, over the same period, our (annual) wage bill has increased £171m.
We do invest. FSG clearly place a ceiling on what they spend (which requires them to not subsidise the club out of their own pockets). If you want to have a grumble about that then feel free. I'm not going to defend that, and I'd argue I'm not even defending them in other respects, just presenting actual facts, not estimates.
 
momoWASboss said:
No he isn’t. He’s been dog shit for months. You can’t expect de Bruyne money without de Bruyne consistency.
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That would be the deBruyne who consistently misses about 15 league games a season. If Salah did that every on here would say he's made of biscuits and he doesn't deserve shit.
 
momoWASboss said:
We have spent a shit loads of money. We pay players a shit load of money. And people still want more?
Click to expand...

sell dross, ties up squad places and wages, giving the impression we are all fine and have NINE midfielders, like Klopp said
half injured all the time, the other half old
 
Beamrider said:
I'm assuming you're basing these figures on the CIES Football Observatory report? No idea what those guys are smoking but they have our net spend over the last 10 years at €341m. Per the accounts, it is £540m (accounts basis) or £501m (net cash paid). These figures are taken from the accounts, all I've done is add them up. The difference between the two figures is the impact of transfers being paid for by instalments.
I'm afraid you really shouldn't place too much reliance on the figures these odd little analysis boutiques produce, probably because they don't actually look at club's accounts, they just add up figures journalists quote when individual deals get done (which are usually wrong, even if well intentioned). I think you only need to look at CIES's player valuation estimates to appreciate the margin of error they are working too.
Also, for context, over the same period, our (annual) wage bill has increased £171m.
We do invest. FSG clearly place a ceiling on what they spend (which requires them to not subsidise the club out of their own pockets). If you want to have a grumble about that then feel free. I'm not going to defend that, and I'd argue I'm not even defending them in other respects, just presenting actual facts, not estimates.
Click to expand...

Yes, thats the one. If its higher than I stand corrected. The point was merely that we are in a healthy financial position going by the info from SwissRamble and should be able to sign a midfielder (20-40 mill) if the squad needs it.

FSG do spend, but we sometimes seem to passive when it could hurt us in the long run.
 
Hansern said:
Yes, thats the one. If its higher than I stand corrected. The point was merely that we are in a healthy financial position going by the info from SwissRamble and should be able to sign a midfielder (20-40 mill) if the squad needs it.

FSG do spend, but we sometimes seem to passive when it could hurt us in the long run.
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I agree with this.
I'd be all for bringing forward a player we have in mind for next summer - I don't think that's an irresponsible thing to do and I'd expect our funds could stretch to it but I think we need to think twice before signing someone who isn't currently in our plan.
From what I understand, this is how we came to acquire Robbo (who was presented as a value signing, an extra body because we couldn't get our top choices - supposedly Alex Sandro (injured) and Bernard Mendy (chose City over us)). Obviously that worked out for us, to say the least.
But it's also how we came to sign Ox, which obviously didn't work out.

A loan would be ideal, but I suspect teams won't want to lend players to us as they know Klopp works them hard, with the corresponding injury risk that comes with that.
 
RedStar said:
That would be the deBruyne who consistently misses about 15 league games a season. If Salah did that every on here would say he's made of biscuits and he doesn't deserve shit.
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I had that assumption too. But it’s not true. He missed 8 games in total last season, 4 of which was because of the Rona. 13 the season before and 4 in 19/20.
 
tomasjj said:
I don´t know - we did try to sign Tchouameni though, so the club must know?
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That’s a good point, but as Beamrider alluded too, that could’ve been from next years pot because we are getting a number one/two target. We wouldn’t do that for someone who isn’t in that tier.
 
momoWASboss said:
That’s a good point, but as Beamrider alluded too, that could’ve been from next years pot because we are getting a number one/two target. We wouldn’t do that for someone who isn’t in that tier.
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Structuring the spending like that may be smart, but it is also easy to spin.
 
I think we might need to adjust our assumptions about how our targeting works. I don't think it follows that if plan A is that we sign (e.g. Tchouameni) then plan B is that we sign an alternative player in the same position (e.g. Mattheus Nunes). Maybe someone can confirm the timeline but it didn't feel to me like we went full-on to sign Darwin until the Tchouameni deal looked like it was dead.
And historically, I remember the summer when all the talk was about us signing Thomas Lemar, and it was only when that deal fell through that we signed Alisson (I think we got really lucky that summer).
Basically, what I'm saying is Plan A might have been sign Bellingham / Tchoaumeni and then sign Darwin (or AN Other) next year, and Plan B might be basically the same players / position, but swapping the timing. As opposed to sign someone else who we don't really want because they play in the same position as the guy we did want.
Just a thought.
 
Beamrider said:
I think we might need to adjust our assumptions about how our targeting works. I don't think it follows that if plan A is that we sign (e.g. Tchouameni) then plan B is that we sign an alternative player in the same position (e.g. Mattheus Nunes). Maybe someone can confirm the timeline but it didn't feel to me like we went full-on to sign Darwin until the Tchouameni deal looked like it was dead.
And historically, I remember the summer when all the talk was about us signing Thomas Lemar, and it was only when that deal fell through that we signed Alisson (I think we got really lucky that summer).
Basically, what I'm saying is Plan A might have been sign Bellingham / Tchoaumeni and then sign Darwin (or AN Other) next year, and Plan B might be basically the same players / position, but swapping the timing. As opposed to sign someone else who we don't really want because they play in the same position as the guy we did want.
Just a thought.
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That's quite a scary thought
 
Isak has always looked talented when I've seen him, but his scoring record isn't exactly amazing. Kind of a player who promises more than he delivers I think. Maybe he hits a major development curve, let's see.
 
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