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Tottenham Riots

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=46360.msg1376813#msg1376813 date=1312890521]
I was at the heart of it last night. We were doing the quiz at Baabar on Myrtle Street and then went back to my mates in Chancellor Court, just behind the Womens Hospital. Whilst we were there we head a really loud bang outside, most likely caused by a firework, so we looked outside and we saw 200+ youths in black hoodies with their faces covered. Cars were flying past, ignoring red lights and there was chaos outside. We then called the Police and two Riot vans showed up, saw the crowd and then bailed in the other direction. We then tried to call where I work to warn them but the lines were down. So we called my mate who was working and then had quickly shut the building down and moved customers and staff upstairs to the clubroom. Outside two building two or three cars were a were already on fire. We then tried to get back to mine, by the Cathedral, because my flatmate was in by herself and wasn't answering her phone, so I wanted to get back and check if everything was alright. We went down Groove St and every single house had been smashed in, every car was burnt out, every bus stop was now in pieces all across the road, members of the public were sat outside on their doorstep with a look of disbelief smacked all over their faces. We turned down Upper Parliament St to see 50-60 riot Police turn around from Catherine St to where we were walking down with them obviously hearing new info about the riot and one of them ran over to us telling us to get the hell out of here now. He looked fucking terrified. So we obviously turned around and then separated. I saw a clear path down Canning Street and sprinted down the Cathedral where everything was the same as always. I'm not even sure the security lodge there even knew what the hell was going on. Thankfully everything was alright down by my way, but it was a fucked up night and something I won't forget in a hurry. Baabar, Bumper, Modo, etc are all sensibly not opening tonight.

It's high time we started arming the Police when shit like this occurs. On the way down to mine we saw some young scally, dressed in all black, with his face covered and it was so difficult to walk past and not smash his face in. Mindless cunts the lot of them.
[/quote]

Our address when I lived in Liverpool was Canning Street. Brings it home to you.

Hopefully a few of those young knuckledraggers will get their features remodelled if things do get going later.
 
Well, to quote DJ Rubbish: "World's gone fuckin' crazy rudeboy".

Obviously this lot are just a bunch of fucking cunts out to smash shit up and nick stuff. However, as much as they obviously don't have any political agenda (and probably don't even really know what politics is) - I don't think you can dismiss it as 'not being political'.

Everything's political in one way or another
 
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=46360.msg1376889#msg1376889 date=1312898039]
Well, to quote DJ Rubbish: "World's gone fuckin' crazy rudeboy".

Obviously this lot are just a bunch of fucking cunts out to smash shit up and nick stuff. However, as much as they obviously don't have any political agenda (and probably don't even really know what politics is) - I don't think you can dismiss it as 'not being political'.

Everything's political in one way or another
[/quote]

I guess so but apparently they are just showing rich people and the police they can "do what they want" and it's all the governments fault although they clearly don't know why.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424
 
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=46360.msg1376889#msg1376889 date=1312898039]
Well, to quote DJ Rubbish: "World's gone fuckin' crazy rudeboy".

Obviously this lot are just a bunch of fucking cunts out to smash shit up and nick stuff. However, as much as they obviously don't have any political agenda (and probably don't even really know what politics is) - I don't think you can dismiss it as 'not being political'.

Everything's political in one way or another
[/quote]

totally agree. the fact these people are generally too prodigiously thick to have a point is the issue. our system will always have a disenfranchised mass in one way or another.
 
When its 'all the government's fault' or 'all rich people's fault' it tends to be an excuse. Some people don't like taking any responsibility for their own situation so if someone else is there to blame they will blame them.

that, incidentally, is how the far right get support. Giving people who are not involved in mainstream society someone to blame.
 
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=46360.msg1376895#msg1376895 date=1312898444]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=46360.msg1376889#msg1376889 date=1312898039]
Well, to quote DJ Rubbish: "World's gone fuckin' crazy rudeboy".

Obviously this lot are just a bunch of fucking cunts out to smash shit up and nick stuff. However, as much as they obviously don't have any political agenda (and probably don't even really know what politics is) - I don't think you can dismiss it as 'not being political'.

Everything's political in one way or another
[/quote]

totally agree. the fact these people are generally too prodigiously thick to have a point is the issue. our system will always have a disenfranchised mass in one way or another.
[/quote]

All systems would. What disillusions these people ? Lack of jobs ? Half the rioters are on their school holidays....
 
Danny Finkelstein just tweeted a link to an old article of his from 2008, about violence and demographics, and it's an interesting read. not sure how relevant it is to this case but still:

When I was a small child I thought that the Vietnam War was taking place in a car park.

Every time I watched the news, I heard reporters talking sombrely of that conflict, accompanied by pictures of violent encounters. Some of the soldiers wore uniforms and charged on horses, others were clothed in denim. It wasn't clear who was winning, but I remember the smoke and the chaos, and a young man lying across a car bonnet being hit with a club. The young man was carrying a poster on a stick, which even to my infant mind seemed an odd thing to carry into a warzone.

Ever since I grew up enough to understand this error, I have been amused by my childish naivety - confusing the Vietnam War with the protests, indeed! But at the weekend, reading Tariq Ali's account of the events of 1968 (“It turned violent. Like the Vietnamese, we wanted to occupy the embassy”) I realised that what I had displayed all those years ago was not naivety it all. It was a precocious talent for political analysis.

The 1968 protests are not best understood as their instigators would have them understood - as the antithesis of war, as the street carnivals of the peace movement. The protesters should instead be seen as having some similarities with the warriors they were opposing. Both were trying to solve a problem with violence. The protesters sought to resolve political conflict in the street and through confrontation. Many of the leaders were not wishing for an end to war, but for victory by the North Vietnamese. In my confusion between the protests and the war I had accidentally seen things clearly.

Now I am not trying to make a point about who was right and who was wrong, who had the bigger weapons and who did the killing. Instead, I am trying to rescue the protests of 1968 from the romantic memories of the participants. I hope in this way to try to show why they are still relevant.

Every attempt to revisit 1968 majors in ideology. Tariq Ali talks of sexual revolution, the liberal author Paul Berman writes of the democratic ideal and the struggle against fascism, the French intellectual Bernard-Henri Lévy sees the common thread between the fight for liberation against Western oppression and the Prague Spring. Meanwhile, the playwright Tom Stoppard found little of any value. He thought the whole thing was merely embarrassing.

I am with Stoppard. This is not, however, just because I think the slogans of the soixante-huitards silly and their flirtation with communism disgusting. It is because I believe all attempts to explain 1968 in terms of ideas are doomed to failure. The events of 1968 were not about ideology, but demographics.

Consider this - a favourite fact that I have rehearsed here before. Young Americans were the group most in favour of the Vietnam War, according to contemporary opinion polls. This remained the case even when the war became unpopular. Here's another fact - young people in this country are the group most in favour of the Iraq war. If you see the events of 1968 as ideological, this opinion poll data is hard to understand. Why aren't young people more idealistic and pacifistic than others? And if they aren't, why wasn't Grosvenor Square packed with rioting old age pensioners?

However, if you see the événements as the product of demographics, the data is easy to comprehend. Young people, particularly young men, tend to see violent solutions to problems as more acceptable than do other groups in society. In 1968 there was a bulge in the number of hot-headed young males.

Some of them chose protest violence on the streets of Europe, others riots in America's ghettos or dissent in Eastern Europe, while still others supported foreign wars. They were united not by ideas but simply by youth. Tariq Ali appears bewildered that the anti-Iraq war movement hasn't evolved into something similar to the soixante- huitards. This isn't because idealism has died. It is because there is no youth bulge. And it is the youth bulge, not anything they said or did, that gives a reason for the 1968 riots to be remembered.

Violent conflict in 17th-century England, the French Revolution, German nationalism in the First World War, the 1979 Iranian revolution, the Cultural Revolution in China and most 20th-century revolutions in developing countries took place where large youth bulges were present. And academic studies suggest that the number of deaths in armed conflict is much higher in countries with a large youth bulge, even when controlling for income and inequality. Between 1989 and 1993, violence in the former Soviet republics varied with the size of their young male population, even where the initial political conditions were similar.

The social scientist Gunnar Heinsohn in his book Sons and World Power argues that when 15 to 29-year-olds make up more than 30 per cent of the population, there is a good chance that violence will follow. There are 67 countries in the world where there is such a bulge and there is violence in 60 of them. He cites the Palestinian territories and Afghanistan as examples and contrasts them with, say, Tunisia or even the passing of the youth peak in Lebanon.

With our blithe conviction that we can always make things better, we are convinced that political education and economic amelioration will work to bring peace where there is conflict. Heinsohn suggests that it might make things worse. Educated and well-fed young males tend to greater violent unrest.

The only hope? That young men eventually grow up. In Northern Ireland, the vast majority of victims and perpetators were young men. But one day Gerry Adams decided he was getting too old to strap on a gun. And the rest is history. Our only alternative in, say, fighting al-Qaeda may be to hold firm and wait it out.

The real lesson of the 1960s isn't Turn On, Tune In, Drop Out. It is Press On, Calm Down, Grow Up.
 
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=46360.msg1376900#msg1376900 date=1312898984]
I doubt they're still in school Sunny, even if they're of school-age
[/quote]

Society's fault obviously ! ;D
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46360.msg1376897#msg1376897 date=1312898823]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=46360.msg1376895#msg1376895 date=1312898444]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=46360.msg1376889#msg1376889 date=1312898039]
Well, to quote DJ Rubbish: "World's gone fuckin' crazy rudeboy".

Obviously this lot are just a bunch of fucking cunts out to smash shit up and nick stuff. However, as much as they obviously don't have any political agenda (and probably don't even really know what politics is) - I don't think you can dismiss it as 'not being political'.

Everything's political in one way or another
[/quote]

totally agree. the fact these people are generally too prodigiously thick to have a point is the issue. our system will always have a disenfranchised mass in one way or another.
[/quote]

All systems would. What disillusions these people ? Lack of jobs ? Half the rioters are on their school holidays....
[/quote]

to varying degrees.

they are disillusioned by the dissonance between the consumerist dream and their inability to achieve it. a lot of these peeps equate wealth alone with success and respect and their inability to achieve wealth means they don't respect themselves and are generally pissed off.
 
The start of the Premier League season is in the balance, with police to decide if this weekend's opening matches go ahead following the disorder that has taken place over the last three days in and around London and which has spread to other areas of the country.Local police forces will decide if they have the resources to oversee the matches in their respective areas, with the decisions resting on whether they will be required elsewhere. There is currently no concern regarding potential trouble at any of the matches.
Due to the dynamic nature of the problems, the Premier League has adopted a watching brief and is liaising with all of its clubs regarding the situation
 
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=46360.msg1376905#msg1376905 date=1312899256]

to varying degrees.

they are disillusioned by the dissonance between the consumerist dream and their inability to achieve it. a lot of these peeps equate wealth alone with success and respect and their inability to achieve wealth means they don't respect themselves and are generally pissed off.
[/quote]

A fair observation Skully......
 
Apparently some ex-copper has been on the Beeb describing this as "an aggressive form of late night shopping"

It's about as political as some of this lot get:

"Free trackie bottoms for every man!"
 
Reuters have come up with a 'misery index'

gateway.aspx
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46360.msg1376892#msg1376892 date=1312898311]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=46360.msg1376889#msg1376889 date=1312898039]
Well, to quote DJ Rubbish: "World's gone fuckin' crazy rudeboy".

Obviously this lot are just a bunch of fucking cunts out to smash shit up and nick stuff. However, as much as they obviously don't have any political agenda (and probably don't even really know what politics is) - I don't think you can dismiss it as 'not being political'.

Everything's political in one way or another
[/quote]

I guess so but apparently they are just showing rich people and the police they can "do what they want" and it's all the governments fault although they clearly don't know why.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424
[/quote]

I'd love to show them exactly what I'd like to do to them. I don't have a flat screen plasma. Perhaps these girls could provide me with theirs. I'd be awfully polite and grateful.
 
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=46360.msg1376910#msg1376910 date=1312900006]
apparantly primark and debenhams have been done?
[/quote]

In Liverpool ? Anything worth robbing in Primark ?
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46360.msg1376913#msg1376913 date=1312900234]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=46360.msg1376910#msg1376910 date=1312900006]
apparantly primark and debenhams have been done?
[/quote]

In Liverpool ? Anything worth robbing in Primark ?
[/quote]

yes and no.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=46360.msg1376813#msg1376813 date=1312890521]
We then tried to get back to mine, by the Cathedral, because my flatmate was in by herself and wasn't answering her phone, so I wanted to get back and check if everything was alright.[/quote]

S'ok baybeeeeee, Daddy home.....lemme hold you till it all go quiet..

*unzippage*
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46360.msg1376913#msg1376913 date=1312900234]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=46360.msg1376910#msg1376910 date=1312900006]
apparantly primark and debenhams have been done?
[/quote]

In Liverpool ? Anything worth robbing in Primark ?
[/quote]Youre talking about people who steal Rice and Imodium cuzzee. Its not exactly target based theivery.
 
A victim of the rioting was the PIAS warehouse in Enfield, which holds stock for the following independent music labels:

1234, 2020 Vision, Accidental, Ad Altiora, Adventures Close to home , Alberts , All City , Alt Delete, Ambush Reality, Angular, Ark, ATC, Atic, Atlantic Jaxx, Azuli, B Unique, Backyard, Bad Sneakers, Bandstock, Banquet, Beggars, Big Chill, Big Dada, Big Life / Nul / Sindy Stroker, Boombox, Border Community, Boysnoize, Brille, Bronzerat, Brownswood, Buzzin Fly, Can You Feel It, Catskills, ChannelFly, Chemikal Underground, City Rockers, Counter, D Cypher, Dance To The Radio, Deceptive, Def Jux, Dirtee Stank, Divine Comedy, Domino, Drag City, Drive Thru, Drowned in Sound, Duophonic, Eat Sleep / Sorepoint, Electric Toaster, Emfire, F. Comm, Fabric, Faith And Hope, Fantastic Plastic, Fargo, FatCat, Feraltone, Finders Keepers / Twisted Nerve, Fingerlickin', Flock, Free Range, From The Basement, Full Time Hobby, Goldsoul, Gronland, Groove Attack, Halftime, Hassle ,Heron. Hum&Haw, Independiente, Info UK, Join Us, Kartel, Kensaltown, Kitsune, Kompakt, Laughing Stock, Leftroom, Lex, Lo Max, Loose, Love Box, Lowlife, Lucky Number, Marquis Cha Cha, Memphis Industries, Merok, Metroline, Mute, Naïve, Nation, Navigator. New World, Ninja Tune, Nuclear Blast ,One Little Indian, Output / People in the Sky / Process, Pale Blue, Palm, Peacefrog, PIAS Recordings, PIP 555 Productions, Play To Work, Powerhouse (T2), Propaganda / Ho Hum, Raw Canvas, Red Grape, Red Telephone Box, Rekids, Renaissance, Respect Productions (PES digital), Reveal Records, SMG, Rock Action, Roots, Rough Trade, Rough Trade Comps, Rubyworks, Ruffa Lane, Search And Destroy, Secret Sundaze, Secretly Canadian / Jagjaguwar / Dead Oceans, Sell Yourself, Setanta, Shatterproof, Sideone Dummy, Slam Dunk, Smalltown, Soma, Something In Construction, Sonar Kollectiv, Soul Jazz, Southern Fried, Stranded Soldier, Subliminal, Sunday Best, TARGO, Taste, Ten Worlds, Thrill Jockey, Total Fitness, Touch And Go, Track And Field, TriTone, Trouble, Try Harder, Turk, Turnstile, Twenty 20, Underworld, Union Square, Urban Torque, Vagrant, Vice, Victory, Wagram , Wall Of Sound, Warp, Wi45 , Wonky Atlas, Word And Sound, Xtra Mile, You Are Here.

Some of these had *all* their stock at the warehouse and as a result will probably go bust.

Well done, dickheads
 
This definitely signals a new kind of crime. Scumbags everywhere will see that they can organise swiftly and in large numbers to swarm retail areas. Dealing with it will require a different kind of policing.
 
As I haven't really seen the footage and that on the telly - can I ask: how have the police dealt with this?

I mean, I suspect that they've probably been caught on the backfoot and been underprepared, overwhelmed and outnumbered - but surely by now they've realised the seriousness of the issues and got feet on the streets?
 
tumblr_lpnxr96mxp1r1pwklo1_500.jpg


Could the scumbags not even find a better shop to loot than Poundland ffs. Hope the fat bird enjoyed her 10p mix ups.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=46360.msg1376933#msg1376933 date=1312903499]
This definitely signals a new kind of crime. Scumbags everywhere will see that they can organise swiftly and in large numbers to swarm retail areas. Dealing with it will require a different kind of policing.
[/quote]

Yes with things that go bang and fire lead projectiles at high velocity

regards
 
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