[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=45126.msg1323656#msg1323656 date=1304064337]
[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=45126.msg1323640#msg1323640 date=1304061804]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=45126.msg1323455#msg1323455 date=1304029135]
[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=45126.msg1323408#msg1323408 date=1304019522]
these are classic threads which usually revolve around pele and diego, but you can also bet your bottom dollar that someone will mention Best and usually do so by comparing him to diego (0ften by disparaging diego to be rather more one dimensional than he was - his performance in 1990, with half the pace and in a deep lying position to take a medicore team to the final puts this argument to rest).
for me diego is the greatest:
- record with argentina, wins world cup by himself;
- record with napoli, changes mediocre team into power houses of italian and european football (uefa cup)
- played an ara where defensive football was at its pinncable after the demise of the brazillian 82 team, notwithstanding this, he was still an unbelievable attacking force;
- he played football at club level against the best in the world on a weekly basis and still stood out;
- he could, lead, tack free kicks, dribble, pass, corners, and pass like no others.
[/quote]
Did you ever watch Best playing, Red? I mean actually playing a match rather than just a couple of clips on occasion cause that last line is just wrong. I thought Maradonna was an exceptional player - I hated him and was in awe of him at separate times in the WC against England. His performances were remarkable and consistent with Napoli - and we were able to view this because of the explosion in TV viewing in the years before his emergence.
I don't think I've ever tried to denigrate him but the reason he gets compared to Best is because his best attributes were largely those of Best. If you had watched him in games you would see that Diego was certainly not the best dribbler or passer to be seen on the football stage.
If Best had played a decade or so later then the question would be whether this player or that will ever challenge him as the greatest ever. As it is I don't need statistics such as the theory he took an average club side to greatness or that he took a national side (which was very good without him) to the final of the WC twice with one win. What I go on is the performance on the field and if you watched Best playing you'd have no need of statistics either.
[/quote]
Wiz, no I never saw him play, and i wasn't directing my post at anyone in particular. granted Best was a great player, but his supporters usually highlight his lack of tv exposure in the modern era as a means to argue that he was not rated as high as he should be. however, this doesn't seem to have caused pele any problems, and best played in europe with more exposure. ultimately its always difficult to compare players from each generation as others have noted, what we can do is compare how players rated with their peers and in turn compare this level of domination. For me this is where Diego excels.
[/quote]
That could only provide a reliable comparison if you assume that all other players, except for the genius individuals we're comparing, are always of the same standard, which clearly isn't the case. Wiz is right - you have to look at the individual player alone if such comparisons are going to mean anything at all. On that basis Best has to win, because he had the widest range of top-level abillities.
[/quote]
on an individual basis diego is unsurpassable, in all respects, ability, application of ability and impact of ability.
[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=45126.msg1323640#msg1323640 date=1304061804]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=45126.msg1323455#msg1323455 date=1304029135]
[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=45126.msg1323408#msg1323408 date=1304019522]
these are classic threads which usually revolve around pele and diego, but you can also bet your bottom dollar that someone will mention Best and usually do so by comparing him to diego (0ften by disparaging diego to be rather more one dimensional than he was - his performance in 1990, with half the pace and in a deep lying position to take a medicore team to the final puts this argument to rest).
for me diego is the greatest:
- record with argentina, wins world cup by himself;
- record with napoli, changes mediocre team into power houses of italian and european football (uefa cup)
- played an ara where defensive football was at its pinncable after the demise of the brazillian 82 team, notwithstanding this, he was still an unbelievable attacking force;
- he played football at club level against the best in the world on a weekly basis and still stood out;
- he could, lead, tack free kicks, dribble, pass, corners, and pass like no others.
[/quote]
Did you ever watch Best playing, Red? I mean actually playing a match rather than just a couple of clips on occasion cause that last line is just wrong. I thought Maradonna was an exceptional player - I hated him and was in awe of him at separate times in the WC against England. His performances were remarkable and consistent with Napoli - and we were able to view this because of the explosion in TV viewing in the years before his emergence.
I don't think I've ever tried to denigrate him but the reason he gets compared to Best is because his best attributes were largely those of Best. If you had watched him in games you would see that Diego was certainly not the best dribbler or passer to be seen on the football stage.
If Best had played a decade or so later then the question would be whether this player or that will ever challenge him as the greatest ever. As it is I don't need statistics such as the theory he took an average club side to greatness or that he took a national side (which was very good without him) to the final of the WC twice with one win. What I go on is the performance on the field and if you watched Best playing you'd have no need of statistics either.
[/quote]
Wiz, no I never saw him play, and i wasn't directing my post at anyone in particular. granted Best was a great player, but his supporters usually highlight his lack of tv exposure in the modern era as a means to argue that he was not rated as high as he should be. however, this doesn't seem to have caused pele any problems, and best played in europe with more exposure. ultimately its always difficult to compare players from each generation as others have noted, what we can do is compare how players rated with their peers and in turn compare this level of domination. For me this is where Diego excels.
[/quote]
That could only provide a reliable comparison if you assume that all other players, except for the genius individuals we're comparing, are always of the same standard, which clearly isn't the case. Wiz is right - you have to look at the individual player alone if such comparisons are going to mean anything at all. On that basis Best has to win, because he had the widest range of top-level abillities.
[/quote]
on an individual basis diego is unsurpassable, in all respects, ability, application of ability and impact of ability.
