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The changing man

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Hansern

Thinks he owns the place
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Peter Fraser looks at Lucas Leiva's transformation from boo-boy to midfield lynchpin at Liverpool

It was late in the second half at Stamford Bridge and a grimace of personal disgust shot across the face of a mild-mannered Brazilian in a demonstration of personal frustration at surrendering the ball.

A tackle-back and possession was immediately regained in a snapshot of the mindset of Kenny Dalglish's revolution. Amid the focus upon the act of fate which saw £50million striker Fernando Torres making his Chelsea debut against his former club, the man in question was Lucas Leiva. Liverpool's No.21 demonstrated why he has emerged as a lynchpin.

Lucas: Has become an integral part of Liverpool's midfield
Martin Kelly, Dirk Kuyt, Daniel Agger, Raul Meireles and, of course, Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard are to list six names from the 13 heroes for those in red on Sunday, when Torres was brutally outplayed in the wake of what has been labelled an act of treachery. But the transformation of Lucas deserves special mention.

The 2007 arrival from Gremio is often used as a label for the faults in the Liverpool reign of Rafa Benitez; a mistake in the transfer market; a square peg for a round hole. But the former Anfield boss was always rigorous in his defence of a player upon who he spent £6m and once announced that 'people just don't know how good Lucas is'.

General consensus is that among the wretched 12 months that was 2010 for Liverpool, Lucas was the man who stood out as the club's best player. While team-mates and managers wilted around him, the now-24-year-old showed spirit for the fight as sceptics and opponents circled like vultures.

Trust
The man from Dourados, a city in the south west of Brazil, had presumably been hardened by the barrage of negativity he had been forced to shoulder since crossing the Atlantic almost four years earlier. Lucas himself told skysports.com in an interview conducted in March 2010: "I don't know why the criticism started with me, but some people just do not like me."

Lucas arrived at Anfield as an attacking midfielder, who made late runs into the box and essentially represented a Brazilian version of captain Gerrard. But Benitez decided he would be best deployed in the responsible holding role, having never trusted Gerrard to fill such a position. The 2007 Merseyside derby at Goodison Park was famously an illustration as the hot-headed Gerrard was substituted by Benitez in favour of Lucas, who went on to secure a match-winning penalty.

The sale of Xabi Alonso to Real Madrid led to a regular first-team role for Lucas alongside Javier Mascherano, who has since joined Barcelona. However, the arrival of Roy Hodgson in the summer of 2010 seemed set to spell the end of his Liverpool career. He was told he could leave if he wanted and did not seem to feature in his new manager's plans. But the fighting spirit, which is not always evident in South American imports to the Premier League, again shinned and a first-team place was reclaimed.

Hodgson has gone, Lucas remains. He is clearly an integral part of Dalglish's plans, as well as inheriting Brazil's famous No.5 shirt under former Gremio boss Mano Menezes. The transformation from boo-boy to midfield engine room has been remarkable and it now appears that the much-sought-after commodity of time in football was the vital element. Lucas needed to settle, especially after arriving on a foreign continent, just out of his teenage years, and being deployed in a different position to that which earned the Bola de Ouro, the Brazilian Footballer of the Year, in 2006. A look at the Chelsea team-sheet on Sunday provided a perfect example of how difficult it can be for South Americans to find form and avoid injury in the rough and tumble of the Premier League as Ramires was not even named among the substitutes, despite costing three times as much as his compatriot.

There is a need to not to get carried away. The frustrating elements of Lucas' game remain evident; he started slowly against Chelsea; he can get caught in possession; he can give away clumsy free-kicks. But, as demonstrated by his tackling back in a direct duel with Michael Essien, there is the pride in personal performance that is rated so highly by Dalglish and mistakes have significantly decreased in frequency. 13 Premier League points have been collected under Dalglish in the process of close to 400 minutes without conceding a goal.


Argument
A look at Lucas' Opta statistics during his 90-minute, plus injury-time, outing against Chelsea demonstrates his improvement. His overall pass completion rate was an incredible 88.89 per cent, 81.82% when in the opponents' half of the field. These figures are very similar to his contribution for the 2010/11 campaign to date, with an overall pass completion of 84.02% and 81.08% when in the opponents' section of the field. One goal has been assisted and 14 chances created from a total of 1133 passes.

The obvious argument would be to suggest that the majority of passes have been simple 10-yard side-foots when under no pressure. But there is a skill to decision-making when doing the unsung task. Ask Sergio Busquets. A destructive force has also been added to Lucas' game. Ninety-nine tackles have been made throughout the season at a success rate of 66.67%. Four yellow cards have been collected. The second booking earned in the defeat to Stoke in November was an act of petulance, but also a reflection of new-found aggression. Seven tackles were made against Chelsea. This may not sound a lot, but that is one player recording exactly one third of Liverpool's entire tackle count at Stamford Bridge.

Lucas does not possess the natural pace, power and overall athleticism to dictate midfields, but he is beginning to patrol in front of the defence, whether it be three or two centre-backs, with brilliant effect.

He deserves immense praise amid the clamour for Dalglish to be given a permanent contract and the dissections of Torres' terrible 65-minute Chelsea debut. Lucas embodies what Dalglish seems to be trying to impose upon his team - a personal freedom within a team responsibility.
 
I have to say the lad has given it his all and is beginning to turn the supporters in his favour. Good on him and I hope the improvement continues.
 
IMO we need better than him as first team regulars in order to become consistent title challengers, but I admire his stickability and would be quite happy to keep him as a squaddie.
 
I've always liked him. We won't get better for a fourth choice midfielder, and would anyone better sit on the bench week in week out when we get a decent DM in (that was certainly my stance with Steve, Alonso and Masher and hasn't changed).

Honest question - can he get better? Can he completely change our idea of him and become a regular? I think he actually could, which surprises even me. He has JUST turned 24, with 3 years before he hits his (Clichéd) peak.
 
[quote author=IanTheRed link=topic=44123.msg1281217#msg1281217 date=1297110589]
I've always liked him. We won't get better for a fourth choice midfielder, and would anyone better sit on the bench week in week out when we get a decent DM in (that was certainly my stance with Steve, Alonso and Masher and hasn't changed).

Honest question - can he get better? Can he completely change our idea of him and become a regular? I think he actually could, which surprises even me. He has JUST turned 24, with 3 years before he hits his (Clichéd) peak.
[/quote]

There are two things he can do IMO to improve. There are a lot of things that would improve him but two things he can do.

First he needs to cut out the unnecessary free kicks around the box. He's been reducing his mistakes consistently and over the last 12 months he's really dropped them significantly but stupid fouls near our box when the player is going nowhere are frustrating as hell. He needs to basically eliminate them from his game. We used to give Stevie stick for silly tackles like that in his younger days despite the amazing qualities he added elsewhere. Lucas needs to get rid of them completely. I personally, given his last 15 months, see no reason to suggest he can't do this.

Second he needs to improve his shooting markedly. He's got a fantastic engine which never seems to stop and this is what has led his managers to tell him he can get forward in attack. Right now, however, the opposition allow him room on the edge of the area cause they don't really fear his goal threat - and with good reason. He needs to develop some sting in his shot which will make them wary or make them pay for that freedom. Again, I personally think he can do this.


Speed, strength, physical prowess; I don't think he can really improve much on any of these. If he bulks up a little more it will come at the detriment of his engine and I don't think he can really improve his speed. He's never going to be the dynamic player Stevie is or that Mascher was but if he can improve the two areas above then he can be a player in the mould of Didi - and I'd take that any day of the week.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44123.msg1281401#msg1281401 date=1297146682]
[quote author=IanTheRed link=topic=44123.msg1281217#msg1281217 date=1297110589]
I've always liked him. We won't get better for a fourth choice midfielder, and would anyone better sit on the bench week in week out when we get a decent DM in (that was certainly my stance with Steve, Alonso and Masher and hasn't changed).

Honest question - can he get better? Can he completely change our idea of him and become a regular? I think he actually could, which surprises even me. He has JUST turned 24, with 3 years before he hits his (Clichéd) peak.
[/quote]

There are two things he can do IMO to improve. There are a lot of things that would improve him but two things he can do.

First he needs to cut out the unnecessary free kicks around the box. He's been reducing his mistakes consistently and over the last 12 months he's really dropped them significantly but stupid fouls near our box when the player is going nowhere are frustrating as hell. He needs to basically eliminate them from his game. We used to give Stevie stick for silly tackles like that in his younger days despite the amazing qualities he added elsewhere. Lucas needs to get rid of them completely. I personally, given his last 15 months, see no reason to suggest he can't do this.

Second he needs to improve his shooting markedly. He's got a fantastic engine which never seems to stop and this is what has led his managers to tell him he can get forward in attack. Right now, however, the opposition allow him room on the edge of the area cause they don't really fear his goal threat - and with good reason. He needs to develop some sting in his shot which will make them wary or make them pay for that freedom. Again, I personally think he can do this.


Speed, strength, physical prowess; I don't think he can really improve much on any of these. If he bulks up a little more it will come at the detriment of his engine and I don't think he can really improve his speed. He's never going to be the dynamic player Stevie is or that Mascher was but if he can improve the two areas above then he can be a player in the mould of Didi - and I'd take that any day of the week.
[/quote]

Good post, again. Would pick up two points only:

1. Lucas needs to improve his all-round goal threat in a big way, not just his shooting but also his heading. I can recall him having more or less as many chances with his head as with his feet, and he's mangled them all. If he's going to be used primarily in deeper positions this may not seem like a priority to some, but as pass-and-move comes back we'll be expecting all our midfielders to be able to handle scoring opportutinies, and that IMO is as it should be.

2. You must have known you were giving a hostage to fortune with that Didi comparison. ;D I know you meant "type of player" rather than "quality of player", but even then I hope that isn't a comparison Lucas has to endure too often, because it can't fail to throw a spotlight on his deficiencies. My own view FWIW is that Lucas doesn't have enough in his locker to fit snugly into that mould even if he makes the absolute best of what he does have. He'll always be something of a "bits and pieces" player IMO.
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=44123.msg1281529#msg1281529 date=1297158438]
Oh, for God's sake, MERGE !
[/quote]

Fuck off ! I'll be there all week doing it !
 
I know Themn. The modding on this site has gone to the fecking dogs. Somebody posts anal dildoing and it's gone in minutes, but Morse's MOTM thread never gets stickied anymore and duplicated threads linger for days. NOT. GOOD. ENOUGH.
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=44123.msg1281545#msg1281545 date=1297159254]
Let's get merging then, big guy.
[/quote]

Nope. Cannae be arsed
 
This, along with your "Pepe's going nowhere" business, is giving me cause for concern.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=44123.msg1281526#msg1281526 date=1297158308]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44123.msg1281401#msg1281401 date=1297146682]
[quote author=IanTheRed link=topic=44123.msg1281217#msg1281217 date=1297110589]
I've always liked him. We won't get better for a fourth choice midfielder, and would anyone better sit on the bench week in week out when we get a decent DM in (that was certainly my stance with Steve, Alonso and Masher and hasn't changed).

Honest question - can he get better? Can he completely change our idea of him and become a regular? I think he actually could, which surprises even me. He has JUST turned 24, with 3 years before he hits his (Clichéd) peak.
[/quote]

There are two things he can do IMO to improve. There are a lot of things that would improve him but two things he can do.

First he needs to cut out the unnecessary free kicks around the box. He's been reducing his mistakes consistently and over the last 12 months he's really dropped them significantly but stupid fouls near our box when the player is going nowhere are frustrating as hell. He needs to basically eliminate them from his game. We used to give Stevie stick for silly tackles like that in his younger days despite the amazing qualities he added elsewhere. Lucas needs to get rid of them completely. I personally, given his last 15 months, see no reason to suggest he can't do this.

Second he needs to improve his shooting markedly. He's got a fantastic engine which never seems to stop and this is what has led his managers to tell him he can get forward in attack. Right now, however, the opposition allow him room on the edge of the area cause they don't really fear his goal threat - and with good reason. He needs to develop some sting in his shot which will make them wary or make them pay for that freedom. Again, I personally think he can do this.


Speed, strength, physical prowess; I don't think he can really improve much on any of these. If he bulks up a little more it will come at the detriment of his engine and I don't think he can really improve his speed. He's never going to be the dynamic player Stevie is or that Mascher was but if he can improve the two areas above then he can be a player in the mould of Didi - and I'd take that any day of the week.
[/quote]

Good post, again. Would pick up two points only:

1. Lucas needs to improve his all-round goal threat in a big way, not just his shooting but also his heading. I can recall him having more or less as many chances with his head as with his feet, and he's mangled them all. If he's going to be used primarily in deeper positions this may not seem like a priority to some, but as pass-and-move comes back we'll be expecting all our midfielders to be able to handle scoring opportutinies, and that IMO is as it should be.

2. You must have known you were giving a hostage to fortune with that Didi comparison. ;D I know you meant "type of player" rather than "quality of player", but even then I hope that isn't a comparison Lucas has to endure too often, because it can't fail to throw a spotlight on his deficiencies. My own view FWIW is that Lucas doesn't have enough in his locker to fit snugly into that mould even if he makes the absolute best of what he does have. He'll always be something of a "bits and pieces" player IMO.
[/quote]

Yep, I don't disagree with your first comment but just feel he needs to be a threat from the edge of the area in order to give Stevie or Raul a little more space and opportunity.

The second comment; we have different estimations of his ability and current standing but no, I don't think he will ever be of Didi's quality; it won't surprise me if we don't get a DM of the Kaiser's quality for another generation. Having said, as I've said elsewhere, Lucas is excellent in the tackle, has an outstanding engine, can hit a very good pass and keeps the centre of the field ticking over very nicely. If he develops a goal threat (something Didi was never known for) and eliminates the silly free kicks then he'll no longer be in the team on merit - he'll be an asset to the team.

I genuinely believe he can do this; the free kicks is mental which is a strength of his while the shooting is something a little tougher but could, realistically, have in his locker for game conditions by next season.
 
Lucas can be excellent in the tackle and can hit a good pass. Unfortunately, too often he can also be brushed aside in the tackle and give the ball away. I'm certainly not saying he doesn't have the abilities with which you credit him, but I am saying I don't think he displays them to a high enough standard or (particularly) with sufficient consistency for me to share your estimation of him. If that changes I'll be delighted to give you both the credit you'll both deserve.
 
The sale of Xabi Alonso to Real Madrid led to a regular first-team role for Lucas alongside Javier Mascherano, who has since joined Barcelona. However, the arrival of Roy Hodgson in the summer of 2010 seemed set to spell the end of his Liverpool career. He was told he could leave if he wanted and did not seem to feature in his new manager's plans. But the fighting spirit, which is not always evident in South American imports to the Premier League, again shinned and a first-team place was reclaimed.

it also helped that poulsen spectacularly shite...
 
This has clearly been Lucas' best season at the club. As ever, however, some people are going overboard. The idea of him being an 'asset' for the club is hard to fathom. The fact that he's been a first choice player in the most important part of the pitch for the best part of two seasons now is just a reflection of how thin our squad is.

As to his qualities, he is as ever, physically weak, slow, and a fairly average tackler and passer. What he has improved upon considerably over the course of the season is his confidence and he no longer looks constantly like a fish out of water. For most parts of his Liverpool career, he's been nervy, slow to react and thus despite having fairly good technical ability, been a frankly useless passer. Thankfully, that seems to be changing and he's been passing the ball more purposefully these days (which incidentally is a lot safer than his supposed 'safe passing' as he's not constantly putting pressure on his teammates in tight spaces).

While that is a big improvement, he still makes idiotic mistakes (see handball in the box against Chelsea) and regularly gets pushed of the ball. While one can possibly foresee him eliminating the mistakes part from his game, he's likely to always remain a lightweight player, and that's just not good enough. Certainly not for a DM in the PL.

I may warm to the idea of him a squaddie but he'll have to sustain his current level of play for the rest of the season for me to come around to that also.
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=44123.msg1281620#msg1281620 date=1297162869]

[/quote]

There was nothing idiotic in his handball against Chelsea. The ball was deflected into it and he even tried to pull his hand away. It was never a penalty.
 
Hmm. Players learn how to make it look like that's what they're trying to do, even when it's actually a cover-up. Lucas took his arm away just that little bit too slowly for me to be entirely convinced.
 
I thought it was very dodgy and we were lucky to get away. Anyway, that's besides the main point.
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=44123.msg1281620#msg1281620 date=1297162869]
This has clearly been Lucas' best season at the club. As ever, however, some people are going overboard. The idea of him being an 'asset' for the club is hard to fathom. The fact that he's been a first choice player in the most important part of the pitch for the best part of two seasons now is just a reflection of how thin our squad is.

As to his qualities, he is as ever, physically weak, slow, and a fairly average tackler and passer. What he has improved upon considerably over the course of the season is his confidence and he no longer looks constantly like a fish out of water. For most parts of his Liverpool career, he's been nervy, slow to react and thus despite having fairly good technical ability, been a frankly useless passer. Thankfully, that seems to be changing and he's been passing the ball more purposefully these days (which incidentally is a lot safer than his supposed 'safe passing' as he's not constantly putting pressure on his teammates in tight spaces).

While that is a big improvement, he still makes idiotic mistakes (see handball in the box against Chelsea) and regularly gets pushed of the ball. While one can possibly foresee him eliminating the mistakes part from his game, he's likely to always remain a lightweight player, and that's just not good enough. Certainly not for a DM in the PL.

I may warm to the idea of him a squaddie but he'll have to sustain his current level of play for the rest of the season for me to come around to that also.
[/quote]

I actually think if we did in fact get a powerful, mobile holding midfielder, lucas would still see him off by virtue him never being injuried.
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=44123.msg1281636#msg1281636 date=1297163456]
I thought it was very dodgy and we were lucky to get away. Anyway, that's besides the main point.
[/quote]

Nah, the ball hit him from close proximity. It would've been madness to give that as a penalty.

I think Wizardry overestimates Lucas' potential.

In terms of posing a bigger goal threat, it's not his shooting that needs improving, but his whole approach to attacking. He has no confidence *at all* when he gets himself into good positions and you can see that he has no idea what to do.

There is a reason you pay a premium for attacking instincts and goals... can it be developed over a summer or two?
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44123.msg1281659#msg1281659 date=1297164284]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=44123.msg1281636#msg1281636 date=1297163456]
I thought it was very dodgy and we were lucky to get away. Anyway, that's besides the main point.
[/quote]

Nah, the ball hit him from close proximity. It would've been madness to give that as a penalty.

I think Wizardry overestimates Lucas' potential.

In terms of posing a bigger goal threat, it's not his shooting that needs improving, but his whole approach to attacking. He has no confidence *at all* when he gets himself into good positions and you can see that he has no idea what to do.

There is a reason you pay a premium for attacking instincts and goals... can it be developed over a summer or two?
[/quote]

"Confidence" I think is the key thing with Lucas
 
I agree. But at some point confidence has to translate into ability and when it comes to attacking, we've seen very little evidence.
 
I am not too arsed about the lack of his attacking ability because let's face it, he's never going to be good enough to play in any sort of attacking role. He doesn't have the pace, the power, the vision, the shooting, or the technical ability to play any sort of role in the attack.

His aspirations should be that of a DM's, and what I'm worried about is that he doesn't exactly have the skillset of a DM either.
 
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