Succession planning, or lack of it
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You could say the same about any team though.
Laporte, Stones, Cancelo, Walker, Gundogan, De Bruyne, Mahrez, Silva all 28 or over.
Ederson, Gundogan, Mahrez, De Bruyne, regularly playing for City hasn’t hurt them and Firmino wouldn’t be playing if Nunez hadn’t been so poor (early days I accept).
Yes we need a couple of new players, but it is a couple - not wholesale,
Konate has been injured or he’d likely be playing alongside Virgil - so drop him in and all of a sudden, even with Robertson starting, no-one in defence is over 28.
Our keeper succession plan looks great.
In midfield we brought in Carvalho and are giving Harvey game time - Morton is in the succession plan and Jones should be stepping up - but yes, we need to bring in additional player(s) there - and clearly that’s where our next big expenditure is going to be - 2 midfield players over the next 2 windows - all under 25 and we’re good.
Up front, we’ve brought in Nunez, Diaz & Jota to replace Mane & Firmino - Salah is the season after next’s big replacement - followed by Van Dijk.
We’re not in anywhere near as big a hole as is being made out.
I've skipped to the end of the thread but what? Alisson is 30 and VVD is 31.
Age ain't nothing but a number. Robertson, at 28, with the number of games he has played and the amount of running he has done in each on of those games, he is the physical equivalent of 32yrs+ at least. Looking at their passports and deluding yourself that the squad is not that old is folly. In some cases, the passports themselves are fake news. We ran everyone into the ground due to it being the only tactic that would let us win trophies and due to not having the money to rotate players. Klopp paying lip service to the insane fixture list was just words, no mitigating action was taken. Now the price is being paid.
I meant other than Van Dijk, no-one in defence is over 28.
I didn’t include the keeper as playing in defence - Alisson is like 9 months older the Ederson.
Currently, the only defenders, including 3 keepers, that City have under the age of 27 is Ruben Diaz and their new signing Gomez, who I don’t think has started a game.
What I’m saying is - there isn’t as big a disparity as sone people are making out - our problem is primarily injuries to players that would have been starting more regularly.
When you add in, shirt pre-season, condensed fixture list (leading to more rotation), list of key player form, maybe some heads getting turned by WC, fatigue from last season or even lingering disappointment impacting mentality, integrating new players in key roles, tweaking systems and patterns of play, no consistency in lineup and yes - not signing at least one MF in the summer while gambling on Ox, Keita & Thiago’s fitness…. Etc, etc - that’s all more important and of greater impact than the average age red herring.
Konate and Jota would start ahead of Matip and Bobby
I think you're being rather charitable.
This is the spine of our team: Alisson, TAA, VVD, Robertson, Fabinho, Henderson, Thiago, Salah, Diaz
The average age of that group is 28.88. You could include Konate in that list if you want - though he alternates with Matip - to bring it down to 28.3.
It's pretty old. And whats more there are long-term fitness and form concerns over more than a couple.
Come the summer, we'll likely need another attacker, two midfielders and a fullback. And we're past the point of being able to slowly ease players in... we need guys that can come into the first team and perform from day 1.
Regarding average age, another way (perhaps fairer/more accurate) to look at it is average age of the starting XI
https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/durchschnittsalter/wettbewerb/GB1
Top 15 so far this season:
https://theanalyst.com/eu/2022/08/liverpool-midfield-options-premier-league-2022-23/
21/22
https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/durchschnittsalter/wettbewerb/GB1
Top 15 so far this season:
https://theanalyst.com/eu/2022/08/liverpool-midfield-options-premier-league-2022-23/
21/22
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I don’t agree.
If we’re talking about succession planning, Konate is replacing Matip, Elliot is being groomed for the Henderson role and I think we’ll spend big on a Thiago replacement.
We don’t “need” another attacker (unless Nunez is done - we bought Carvalho) or another FB (we have plenty of them), while I agree we need 2 midfielders - that’s pretty much it.
Arguably there are plans to add another CB (Van den Berg) and / additional young midfielders in Bajcetic & Morton.
City make a point of only really adding or changing one key player a season and playing around with a few fringe/first team additions - and we do pretty much the same.
The big difference is we’re more cautious and can’t afford to make mistakes, whereas City can wear losses more easily.
If we want another big money forward - let’s hope someone will pay us £60m for Nunez and we sell him next window - otherwise we spend £100-£120m on 2 midfielders and bring in a couple of kids who won’t slot in quickly.
- We do *need* another attacker because Firmino is done at the end of the season and Jota seems to spend a month or two a year injured.
- Elliot is a very different player to Henderson. I don't think he's being groomed as anyone's successor per-se. Right now, as with Carvahlo, he's a promising young player without a clear role in Klopp's established system. If either of them are going to make it into the spine of a new successful team, Klopp will have to change something to accommodate them.
- There is no real point comparing us to City. They are a team playing much closer to the peak of their potential. They have less aging out concerns, less concerns with individual players and less overarching concerns.
We obviously haven't turned into a bad team overnight, but what is happening is proof that Klopp's system is highly sensitive and needs all the parts to be in tip-top condition for it to work.
The Midfield (including the Thiago issue)
Great Footballer/Amazing: But even on a good day Thiago should be saddled with 2 Worldclass players next to him. We have one world-class player in Fabinho but Fabinho has looked tired this season as he sometimes looks like he's having to do the work of two players because he playing next to the likes of Elliot, Henderson, and Milner.
Even during golden times, the midfield was always our weakest part of the team. It was always the part of the team that rival fans felt that they could exploit as we lacked creativity. Just as we added some creativity in Thiago we lost some of the intelligent pressing energy that was the trademark of this midfield when Gini left.
The forward line (including the Nunez experiment)
People will hate me saying this.... but I really do miss Mane. His off-the-ball movement was underrated. Sure, he lost some pace and wasn't able to terrorize defenders on the ball, but his off-the-ball movement was still crucial to the telepathy that the front three (and Roberston) had developed.
This season the front three seem to play like individuals rather than the unit. Unless the Nunez experiment takes off I feel we may need to sign another forward with those qualities that can integrate and have that same level of telepathy. I say this in full knowledge of Diaz importance, as Firmino is getting on a bit despite his great game against Brighton.
Nunez, I like what I've seen of him, but so far it doesn't seem to be working. Maybe the lad and the club need a season to work out how we are going to use him. So far I'm not seeing the intelligence into why we bought him. He hasn't offered anything different from Divock.
The Defence (including Trent)
Our defence isn't actually too bad despite the number of goals we are letting in. What I see is that the defence is tasked with playing one of the highest lines in Europe and doesn't have the defensive screen it used to rely on. Peak Henderson, Peak Gini, and Peak Fabinho were the wall that allowed the defence to play an extremely risky Highline. Now we don't have those elements and yet the defence is still paying that high line. No wonder Trent is being exposed!! But Klopp being Klopp he won't change his tactics.
I know people hate this topic but I would put Trent in that midfield to be that energetic presser along with Fabinho and Thiago and then play Gomez at right back.
Ultimately we are going to need new personnel for this team. Jude Bellingham would be a nice addition but I think he's kinda almost a luxury compared to the type of hardworking presser player like Brightions Moises Caicedo that we actually need.
The Midfield (including the Thiago issue)
Great Footballer/Amazing: But even on a good day Thiago should be saddled with 2 Worldclass players next to him. We have one world-class player in Fabinho but Fabinho has looked tired this season as he sometimes looks like he's having to do the work of two players because he playing next to the likes of Elliot, Henderson, and Milner.
Even during golden times, the midfield was always our weakest part of the team. It was always the part of the team that rival fans felt that they could exploit as we lacked creativity. Just as we added some creativity in Thiago we lost some of the intelligent pressing energy that was the trademark of this midfield when Gini left.
The forward line (including the Nunez experiment)
People will hate me saying this.... but I really do miss Mane. His off-the-ball movement was underrated. Sure, he lost some pace and wasn't able to terrorize defenders on the ball, but his off-the-ball movement was still crucial to the telepathy that the front three (and Roberston) had developed.
This season the front three seem to play like individuals rather than the unit. Unless the Nunez experiment takes off I feel we may need to sign another forward with those qualities that can integrate and have that same level of telepathy. I say this in full knowledge of Diaz importance, as Firmino is getting on a bit despite his great game against Brighton.
Nunez, I like what I've seen of him, but so far it doesn't seem to be working. Maybe the lad and the club need a season to work out how we are going to use him. So far I'm not seeing the intelligence into why we bought him. He hasn't offered anything different from Divock.
The Defence (including Trent)
Our defence isn't actually too bad despite the number of goals we are letting in. What I see is that the defence is tasked with playing one of the highest lines in Europe and doesn't have the defensive screen it used to rely on. Peak Henderson, Peak Gini, and Peak Fabinho were the wall that allowed the defence to play an extremely risky Highline. Now we don't have those elements and yet the defence is still paying that high line. No wonder Trent is being exposed!! But Klopp being Klopp he won't change his tactics.
I know people hate this topic but I would put Trent in that midfield to be that energetic presser along with Fabinho and Thiago and then play Gomez at right back.
Ultimately we are going to need new personnel for this team. Jude Bellingham would be a nice addition but I think he's kinda almost a luxury compared to the type of hardworking presser player like Brightions Moises Caicedo that we actually need.
“Need”? - We have Diaz, Carvalho, Jota, Nunez & Salah - another forward isn’t a priority unless we’re selling one of those. It’s entirely possible one of the kids might step up to add to that group - Polish Messi, Clarke, Gordon, Cannioner, etc.
Eliot - yiu say he has no clear role in the team, yet at the start of last season and this season he’s only ever played in the one position consistently - the right hand side of midfield. There can’t be a clearer indication of where Klopp sees him playing. He’s not coming off the bench to replace Salah. Is he different than Hendo - yes. Isn’t that what we wanted, complained about a lack of creativity in midfield for ages - now we have that creativity with someone that needs to work on pressing, covering and defensive work.
Elliot isn’t going to improve unless we play him - so we either play him or sell him.
Why shouldn’t we compare ourselves to City - we’re trying to evolve the way we play to be more like them - possession based, creative - if we want to go back to the Gini/Hendo type of midfield - fine, let’s do that - sell Elliot & Thiago, forget about Bellingham and any of the other creative types and bring in some good solid running, pressing, holding midfielders and get back to doing what we used to be good at.
How exactly does Elliot imbalance the midfield and what does balance look like.
Im not trying to be an arse here - it’s a genuine question and I agree to an extent there’s an imbalance - but what’s causing it is the need for Elliot to balance out his creativity with pressing, etc.
Look, I’ll bring up City again - ‘cause they’emre the standard we need to better - they’ve just smashed Utd with a midfield of Gundogan, de Bruyne & Bernardo Silva with Grealish & Foden in wide attacking areas.
None of those are physically imposing players know for tackling, etc - City possessed the ball more, passed it more and more importantly passed it better and more accurately.
I saw some pretty pictures early about what sectors of the pitch City and us like to dominate and which areas, we compete and which areas we let the opposition have - they’re pretty much identical - we’re just not doing it very well - we’re not pressing as a team, our passing is shit, etc, etc
Anyway… if we’re going to pursue a more expansive game - we’ll have to bite the bullet and play Harvey - if we’re coaching him right things will start to click into place.
I think that is blatantly clear that he does, ad he is more of an attacking mid, lacking the physicality and defensive presence needed in that role.
It is a bit more complex than just the midfield, as with Trent´s role, and thiago too, it just leaves Fabs with too much covering to do in our current formation and set up.
It is a bit more complex than just the midfield, as with Trent´s role, and thiago too, it just leaves Fabs with too much covering to do in our current formation and set up.
We used to laugh at Brexit midfield but that's exactly what we kinda need in our midfield at the moment. If we cant have the brexit midfield then the next thing we defo should be doing is making sure Thaigo is covered. I love Thiago and what he contributes creatively but you really need two world-class pressing monster midfielders to do the heavy lifting when youre playing with Thiago. Yes Thiago has improved defensively a bit but he still isn't someone you rely on technically to defend. At the moment Fabinho sometimes looks overworked having to cover for Elliot and Thiago.
I know Klopp wants to turn Elliot into an Adam Lallana-type regen but at the moment its just not working. I feel there is a little bit of 'Leeds syndrome' going on at the moment with us because we don't have enough players to play the system required. Players are running around a lot but we still conceding goals due to insufficient personal.
I want to be positive but unless we overpay in the winter transfer for a decent midfielder I cant see us getting 4th
I know Klopp wants to turn Elliot into an Adam Lallana-type regen but at the moment its just not working. I feel there is a little bit of 'Leeds syndrome' going on at the moment with us because we don't have enough players to play the system required. Players are running around a lot but we still conceding goals due to insufficient personal.
I want to be positive but unless we overpay in the winter transfer for a decent midfielder I cant see us getting 4th
We already have a Brexit midfield. As in, if we dont turn things around, we'll be out of Europe by this time next month.
We should sell him then.
[article]Liverpool Chief Executive Billy Hogan has revealed FSG plan to continue building off the pitch as they know they can’t always rely on Champions League football.
The Reds currently sit ninth in the table after a 3-3 draw with Brighton & Hove Albion at the weekend.
That result continued their slow start to the season, in which they have managed just two wins from their first seven games.
An improvement is expected and quickly, with the Champions League places already four points away and the gap at risk of getting bigger.
Failure to qualify for the Champions League would be disastrous for Liverpool, particularly on a financial level given the huge differences in wealth available to them and other clubs.
It is because of that difference that the club have worked to increase their incomings off the pitch, something Liverpool CEO Hogan has admitted is still a work in process.
“That (Champions League qualification) is always our goal at the beginning of the season,” he told SportBILD.
“Of course, qualification is important because of the turnover. But we manage the club in such a way that we make sure that we are as sustainable as possible. You can’t automatically count on Champions League qualification.
“Jurgen wants to leave the club in better shape than he was. club in better shape than he found it. He succeeded in Mainz, Dortmund and Liverpool.
“Sales have doubled since he arrived. The stadium will be significantly bigger. We have a new training ground. The club has grown significantly in the past six or seven years. We want to continue that because we think there is still a lot of potential.”[/article]
Successionfinancial planning
[article]Liverpool Chief Executive Billy Hogan has revealed FSG plan to continue building off the pitch as they know they can’t always rely on Champions League football.
The Reds currently sit ninth in the table after a 3-3 draw with Brighton & Hove Albion at the weekend.
That result continued their slow start to the season, in which they have managed just two wins from their first seven games.
An improvement is expected and quickly, with the Champions League places already four points away and the gap at risk of getting bigger.
Failure to qualify for the Champions League would be disastrous for Liverpool, particularly on a financial level given the huge differences in wealth available to them and other clubs.
It is because of that difference that the club have worked to increase their incomings off the pitch, something Liverpool CEO Hogan has admitted is still a work in process.
“That (Champions League qualification) is always our goal at the beginning of the season,” he told SportBILD.
“Of course, qualification is important because of the turnover. But we manage the club in such a way that we make sure that we are as sustainable as possible. You can’t automatically count on Champions League qualification.
“Jurgen wants to leave the club in better shape than he was. club in better shape than he found it. He succeeded in Mainz, Dortmund and Liverpool.
“Sales have doubled since he arrived. The stadium will be significantly bigger. We have a new training ground. The club has grown significantly in the past six or seven years. We want to continue that because we think there is still a lot of potential.”[/article]
What a weird statement.
Nah, I don't think he has. Firmino and Diaz. He is a bit below them.
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