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Suarez apologises

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[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=48661.msg1482462#msg1482462 date=1329204620]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48661.msg1482460#msg1482460 date=1329204297]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=48661.msg1482433#msg1482433 date=1329190157]
Suarez misled the club over the handshake. Now the club is wondering if he misled them about the initial incident. A few of us fans are too.

Hard times.
[/quote]

The two incidents are way apart though. Would you shake his hand if you felt he'd lied, gotten you suspended and damaged your name? Of course you wouldnt.
[/quote]

But would you also tell your bosses you would do it and then not?
[/quote]

This is a fair point, but I am sure that there are many things that people have agreed to do beforehand and then at the moment of truth, for whatever reason, have not been able to go through with it.

So he isn't necessarily a liar, its possible he had every intention of shaking hands and at that last moment changed his mind, thought Evra didn't want to shake his etc etc.

There are variables but yet again this has become a pretty polarised debate. Eg: He didn't shake hands ergo he is a liar ergo he probably lied from the very beginning.
 
What happened out on the pitch during the handshake is blown way out of all proportions.

it is clear that Evra lowered his hand. He hesitated, Luis didn't see the need to stretch out and grabs next hand. Who refused or not is in the big picture not interesting, and its is created by media, and hyped by Evra and Fergie afterwardsa. To beat up an already beaten guy has been their only agenda and they have pursued it way to far. People in the Liverpool camp need to clam down int heir interpretions of why things happened or not. Suarez is our man. He has been beaten as a dog by our nemesis and worst enemy, and we give them the right to do so? That is nothing short of disgraceful.

If the race issue was important to them they should and would have voiced their concerns over how easy Terry has got away with it. if Evra had any concerns regarding the race issue he could have takne this opportunity to speak up. You can always argue that that is none of their concern, but if so I guess the race issue ain't important afterall? And if the race issue ain't important, why is the handshake important then? It is not important at all either. We still let them set the agenda, which is a disgrace. if the handshake is that important, why was there the same reaction from the united camp when Neville refused Smeichels hand? becuase there is no other agenda than stamping on the man who actually served 8 matches due to this bullshit story, and that our supporters are jumping on the same bandwagon and hitting him with the same stick as those shallow fuckheads supporting Man U is very very dissapointing. I feel baffled by some of the reactions.

What is the motive Scum fans have to stamp on Suarez? he is a good player who played them of the park once. He is no angel and makes a meal out of small things every now and then. We are not supposed to have these players, but they have had them again and again and backed them through thick and thin. Their motive is to weaken us, and we help them do that. Amazing.
 
I was with Luis up until it became clear he had told KD he was to shake hands and then didn't. It left KD out to dry. An apology was the least Luis could do.

He should now concentrate all his efforts to performing on the pitch and helping his teammates and Manager. Only his efforts on the pitch should make the press.

I'm sure he's had his card marked as to his future conduct and rightly so. His Manager and the clubs owners should expect him to be professional.

Letting his football do the talking and helping Liverpool win football matches is the only way to restore reputations.

Win football matches and all the bad stuff will be forgotten as it always has done.
 
[quote author=i_rushie link=topic=48661.msg1482429#msg1482429 date=1329187082]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=48661.msg1482388#msg1482388 date=1329147628]
You and anyone else who takes the same view are playing into the hands of people who want this club to fall further behind.
[/quote]

I couldn't be more critical of comments like this. It an irrational attempt to justify our ill-advised responses as perfectly legitimate responses to an undefined conspiracy and absolve the club of its incompetence throughout this sorry saga.

Let's get a few things clear. I believed Suarez was probably telling the truth in the original incident with Evra. But I believed that the club's statement in the wake of the decision was horrendously timed. Why? Because as it turned out, the written judgment was legally sound as an inevitable result of Suarez's lawyers (including the club lawyer) botching his defence. Suarez's decision NOT to appeal only reinforced the absurdity of such strongly worded criticism without the benefit of reading the written judgment. If Suarez (and the club) felt that he had been denied justice, well, the proper course was to take it to the courts. You harp on about refusing to submit on principle, but evidently Suarez wasn't principled enough to see through an appeal to the very highest courts in the land. He hasn't even been principled enough to initiate defamatory suits against the UK media. If we were simply acting on principle, then I expect much more than unsubstantiated snippets through the club to the media.

And then the handshake. A classic example of making a mountain out of a molehill by the press. I had no problem with Suarez not shaking hands with Evra, I wouldn't have done so myself. But again, I thought Kenny should have avoided making comment until he saw the footage of the incident - like it or not it was always going to be a talking point. Better yet, avoid making comment altogether - and eliminate the story. Why proffer a single tidbit to the very same people culpable for the demonisation of your player?

So what was the rationale behind our continued defence of Suarez to the media? Winning it in the forum of public opinion? We never ever stood a chance, that much was clear from the beginning. From condescending old farts like Gordon Taylor (I actually consider his repeated comments a throwback to imperialist sentiment) to dimwits like Oliver Holt, all roundly condemned Suarez and it would have taken a a miracle for them to back down on their collective stance.

So not only have we lost the disciplinary inquiry, we lost the capacity to assert our innocence via an appeal, we lost our best player for eight games by not appealing, we lost the media game, we lost our focus, we lost a game against our most hated rivals, we lost several opportunities to consolidate our claim for fourth, but we've also lost so much dignity as a club because we had to publicly acknowledge that our star player lied to his manager. If it is indeed true that people want our club to fall further behind, well, it seems our club is doing its best to make those wishes come true. There's been no discernible strategy, no clear statement of principle, is it any surprise that the hyenas have descended into such a huge fucking mess?
[/quote]

LeChacal said we should get rid of Suarez. That was the point, and the only point, I was answering.

Just on the rest of this effusion, not all of which I disagree with BTW, I doubt very much that not taking on the appeal and subsequent court proceedings had anything to do with principle. I suspect it had everything to do with legal advice, and if you were to look back at my previous posts you'll see that I explicitly acknowledged we had to be guided by that.

Get over yourself.
 
[quote author=hmmmmm1 link=topic=48661.msg1482545#msg1482545 date=1329217139]
A lot of posters have egg on their face after their embarrassing defence of Luis on Saturday.
[/quote]

No they don't
 
[quote author=hmmmmm1 link=topic=48661.msg1482545#msg1482545 date=1329217139]
A lot of posters have egg on their face after their embarrassing defence of Luis on Saturday.
[/quote]

How do you work that out?
 
I defend luis right to refuse to shake the cunts hand.

I don't defend his actions in telling the club one thing & doing another.

Had he expressed his reluctance there's no way we'd have bent over & allowed utd to turn the tables & insist we led the shake, the first time an away team has ever done that BTW.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48661.msg1482564#msg1482564 date=1329219160]
I defend luis right to refuse to shake the cunts hand.

I don't defend his actions in telling the club one thing & doing another.

Had he expressed his reluctance there's no way we'd have bent over & allowed utd to turn the tables & insist we led the shake, the first time an away team has ever done that BTW.
[/quote]

hahahaha you give the club way too much respect. it had already willingly bent over the second it asked Suarez to shake the lying cunts hand. whether he agreed or disagreed is unimportant, the club showed itself to be weak and pathetic
 
The handshake - in my opinion - like everything else in this saga was a fit up. Dowd shouldn't have been within a 1000 miles of this game given his involvement as 4th official at Anfield. But to allow him to change the handshake 'in favour' of utd is taking the piss. The handshake should never have happened in the first place, but you can't win in an argument if you say 'well they didn't shake hands at QPR' because the media just puts a different spin on things: Terry still hasn't been charged, unfair on Ferdinand, etc, etc.

What would have been the problem with putting Evra and Suarez together in the room 10 minutes before the match - could have even had Kenny and fergie in there and nobody needs to know - to remind them that the whole world is watching and wants to watch a decent game of football?

But where's the fun in that? Being level-headed and pro-active doesn't sell newspapers or sky subscriptions.
 
According to BBC football gossip today ( Daily Mail,who else), Dowd decided to change the protocol to " keep Suarez from getting in trouble"

I read last night somewhere that it was with the agreement of both clubs
 
Suarez would have probably been vilified even if he had shook hands with Evra because the media would have been saying shit like: 'well he may have shook his hand, but he didn't look very sincere or look him in the eye'.

And if it had been Suarez who held his hand back and then grabbed Evra's arm after being snubbed, Suarez would have been portrayed as being at fault because utd would have been all over it at the end of the game.

Paranoid? Moi?
 
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=48661.msg1482558#msg1482558 date=1329218303]
[quote author=hmmmmm1 link=topic=48661.msg1482545#msg1482545 date=1329217139]
A lot of posters have egg on their face after their embarrassing defence of Luis on Saturday.
[/quote]

How do you work that out?
[/quote]

Well Luis and Kenny have apologised
 
Politicians apologise. Whisper it quietly when those darlings at Standard Chartered are about, but so do bankers. It means feck all.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48661.msg1482564#msg1482564 date=1329219160]
I defend luis right to refuse to shake the cunts hand.

I don't defend his actions in telling the club one thing & doing another.

Had he expressed his reluctance there's no way we'd have bent over & allowed utd to turn the tables & insist we led the shake, the first time an away team has ever done that BTW.
[/quote]

This is exactly what I mean.......

How can you defend his his refusal to shake Evra's when the Luis himself admits this was a mistake and he should have shook his hands.

Utterly Bizarre.
 
I think everyone understands why he wouldn't have done it. But everyone should also understand why he should have done it.
 
Derek McGovern in not being a facetious twat shocker:


It's an interesting code of ethics Sir Alex Ferguson lives by when it comes to footballers.

Kung-fu kick a fan? That's fine. Sleep with your brother's wife? No problem. Bed an OAP prostitute? Splendid. Admit to deliberately trying to break an opponent's leg? Boys will be boys. Refuse to shake hands with an opponent? Ban for life.

Everyone will have a view on Luis Suarez's conduct on Saturday but far more unpalatable was the fact that Fergie was allowed to poke his purple nose into another club's business without censure.

Bookies Boylesports are betting on whether the outdated Premier League pre-match handshake tradition will be scrapped by next season and at 12-1 I'd say that's a very good bet.

More interesting, though, is the betting, next time the two North West giants meet, on whether Liverpool boss Kenny Dalglish will shake hands with his Scottish nemesis.

Dalglish will be fuming that he's been forced into a humiliating climbdown by a PR drive at Anfield while Fergie has been allowed to escape scot-free for his incendiary comments.

Fergie should tread warily on the race row. Last time he got involved in a race row, Rock Of Gibraltar cost him a fortune.

BetVictor offer 16-1 for the two Scots not to shake when United next face Liverpool. Not a good bet -Dalglish will shake with rage.

Suarez's dignified response to scoring and his equally dignified response to Patrice Evra's dangerously provocative gloating should have spared him the vitriol heaped on him because of a) his decision not to shake the Frenchman's hand, and b) his decision to be Uruguayan.

Wayne Bridge was a hero when he snubbed John Terry's handshake; Samir Nasri drew no criticism for a similar snub to William Gallas. But Suarez has been deemed the villain in a media pantomime so even if he'd sponsored a Mother Teresa fun run around the Old Trafford pitch on Saturday you suspect he'd have been castigated for cruelty to pensioners. Wayne Rooney would merely have asked for her number
Click to expand...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/betting-hots-up-on-luis-suarez-683551
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=48661.msg1482572#msg1482572 date=1329221823]
According to BBC football gossip today ( Daily Mail,who else), Dowd decided to change the protocol to " keep Suarez from getting in trouble"

I read last night somewhere that it was with the agreement of both clubs
[/quote]
Yep. The idea was, that the camera wouldn't be pinned on Suarez. Stupid really.

But fair play to Dowd all the same.
 
[quote author=hmmmmm1 link=topic=48661.msg1482583#msg1482583 date=1329223237]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48661.msg1482564#msg1482564 date=1329219160]
I defend luis right to refuse to shake the cunts hand.

I don't defend his actions in telling the club one thing & doing another.

Had he expressed his reluctance there's no way we'd have bent over & allowed utd to turn the tables & insist we led the shake, the first time an away team has ever done that BTW.
[/quote]

This is exactly what I mean.......

How can you defend his his refusal to shake Evra's when the Luis himself admits this was a mistake and he should have shook his hands.

Utterly Bizarre.
[/quote]

Well what would you say if the Club prior to the handshake respected Luis' view that he didn't want to shake his hand? (Irrespective of being right/wrong)

Nobody is arguing that if he did lie to the club and Kenny that he was in the wrong, they are arguing the point that he should never have had to shake Evra's hand in the first place. The Club and Kenny in particular have defended Suarez vehemently over the past 2 months, which in my head makes me think they believe him in that he didn't say anything that he believed was offensive and subsequently beyond apologising for the use to the public domain he shouldn't have to say anything to Evra.

You seem to think Kenny and Suarez apologised for the entire episode, they didn't, one apologised for not shaking the hand and the other for post-match comments.

Nice to see some common sense from both Clubs and the Ref is the above is also true.
 
[quote author=hmmmmm1 link=topic=48661.msg1482583#msg1482583 date=1329223237]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48661.msg1482564#msg1482564 date=1329219160]
I defend luis right to refuse to shake the cunts hand.

I don't defend his actions in telling the club one thing & doing another.

Had he expressed his reluctance there's no way we'd have bent over & allowed utd to turn the tables & insist we led the shake, the first time an away team has ever done that BTW.
[/quote]

This is exactly what I mean.......

How can you defend his his refusal to shake Evra's when the Luis himself admits this was a mistake and he should have shook his hands.

Utterly Bizarre.
[/quote]

That is bullshit. if you saw it in a bigger picture you could say how could Norwa not boicotting or politcal sanction Israel over their actions in Palestina when a socialist government is in place? We all know they want to, but it is a difficult hole to put your hands into, and there is no clear stance on who is to blame while the people in Norway are split in the question.

Should the minsiter of foreign affair still boicott Israel when thats what he personally wants, or should he apply some bigger issue politics on the situation?

So calm down. It is not utterly bizzare to defend Luis Suarez for one thing, even if he is told to say something else on the matter.
 
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=48661.msg1482587#msg1482587 date=1329223834]
Derek McGovern in not being a facetious twat shocker:


It's an interesting code of ethics Sir Alex Ferguson lives by when it comes to footballers.

Kung-fu kick a fan? That's fine. Sleep with your brother's wife? No problem. Bed an OAP prostitute? Splendid. Admit to deliberately trying to break an opponent's leg? Boys will be boys. Refuse to shake hands with an opponent? Ban for life.

Everyone will have a view on Luis Suarez's conduct on Saturday but far more unpalatable was the fact that Fergie was allowed to poke his purple nose into another club's business without censure.

Bookies Boylesports are betting on whether the outdated Premier League pre-match handshake tradition will be scrapped by next season and at 12-1 I'd say that's a very good bet.

More interesting, though, is the betting, next time the two North West giants meet, on whether Liverpool boss Kenny Dalglish will shake hands with his Scottish nemesis.

Dalglish will be fuming that he's been forced into a humiliating climbdown by a PR drive at Anfield while Fergie has been allowed to escape scot-free for his incendiary comments.

Fergie should tread warily on the race row. Last time he got involved in a race row, Rock Of Gibraltar cost him a fortune.

BetVictor offer 16-1 for the two Scots not to shake when United next face Liverpool. Not a good bet -Dalglish will shake with rage.

Suarez's dignified response to scoring and his equally dignified response to Patrice Evra's dangerously provocative gloating should have spared him the vitriol heaped on him because of a) his decision not to shake the Frenchman's hand, and b) his decision to be Uruguayan.

Wayne Bridge was a hero when he snubbed John Terry's handshake; Samir Nasri drew no criticism for a similar snub to William Gallas. But Suarez has been deemed the villain in a media pantomime so even if he'd sponsored a Mother Teresa fun run around the Old Trafford pitch on Saturday you suspect he'd have been castigated for cruelty to pensioners. Wayne Rooney would merely have asked for her number
Click to expand...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/betting-hots-up-on-luis-suarez-683551
[/quote]

Makes perfect sense to me.
Try showing that to a manc or any other Ferguson apologist though...

BTW, haven't seen any denunciation of Roonie's tweet that Suarez should have seen a red card for that foul on Parker. Is it perceived as "normal" for a footballer to say such a thing in a match his team was not involved in?
 
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=48661.msg1482596#msg1482596 date=1329224652]
[quote author=hmmmmm1 link=topic=48661.msg1482583#msg1482583 date=1329223237]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48661.msg1482564#msg1482564 date=1329219160]
I defend luis right to refuse to shake the cunts hand.

I don't defend his actions in telling the club one thing & doing another.

Had he expressed his reluctance there's no way we'd have bent over & allowed utd to turn the tables & insist we led the shake, the first time an away team has ever done that BTW.
[/quote]

This is exactly what I mean.......

How can you defend his his refusal to shake Evra's when the Luis himself admits this was a mistake and he should have shook his hands.

Utterly Bizarre.
[/quote]

Well what would you say if the Club prior to the handshake respected Luis' view that he didn't want to shake his hand? (Irrespective of being right/wrong)

They club released a statement prior to the game that there would be a handshake and Kenny confirmed this in his pre match conference

Nobody is arguing that if he did lie to the club and Kenny that he was in the wrong, they are arguing the point that he should never have had to shake Evra's hand in the first place. The Club and Kenny in particular have defended Suarez vehemently over the past 2 months, which in my head makes me think they believe him in that he didn't say anything that he believed was offensive and subsequently beyond apologising for the use to the public domain he shouldn't have to say anything to Evra.

As with QPR/Chelsea game the club could have agreed not go through with this handshakes but they CLUB wanted to.

You seem to think Kenny and Suarez apologised for the entire episode, they didn't, one apologised for not shaking the hand and the other for post-match commensts.

Disagree with the above, its become a case of "Kennys and Luis hand being forced" as it doesn't agree with some posters viewpoint.

Nice to see some common sense from both Clubs and the Ref is the above is also true.
[/quote]
 
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48661.msg1482600#msg1482600 date=1329225010]
[quote author=hmmmmm1 link=topic=48661.msg1482583#msg1482583 date=1329223237]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48661.msg1482564#msg1482564 date=1329219160]
I defend luis right to refuse to shake the cunts hand.

I don't defend his actions in telling the club one thing & doing another.

Had he expressed his reluctance there's no way we'd have bent over & allowed utd to turn the tables & insist we led the shake, the first time an away team has ever done that BTW.
[/quote]

This is exactly what I mean.......

How can you defend his his refusal to shake Evra's when the Luis himself admits this was a mistake and he should have shook his hands.

Utterly Bizarre.
[/quote]

That is bullshit. if you saw it in a bigger picture you could say how could Norwa not boicotting or politcal sanction Israel over their actions in Palestina when a socialist government is in place? We all know they want to, but it is a difficult hole to put your hands into, and there is no clear stance on who is to blame while the people in Norway are split in the question.

Should the minsiter of foreign affair still boicott Israel when thats what he personally wants, or should he apply some bigger issue politics on the situation?

So calm down. It is not utterly bizzare to defend Luis Suarez for one thing, even if he is told to say something else on the matter.
[/quote]

Should this have been posted in General Forum :🙂
 
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=48661.msg1482605#msg1482605 date=1329226550]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=48661.msg1482587#msg1482587 date=1329223834]
Derek McGovern in not being a facetious twat shocker:


It's an interesting code of ethics Sir Alex Ferguson lives by when it comes to footballers.

Kung-fu kick a fan? That's fine. Sleep with your brother's wife? No problem. Bed an OAP prostitute? Splendid. Admit to deliberately trying to break an opponent's leg? Boys will be boys. Refuse to shake hands with an opponent? Ban for life.

Everyone will have a view on Luis Suarez's conduct on Saturday but far more unpalatable was the fact that Fergie was allowed to poke his purple nose into another club's business without censure.

Bookies Boylesports are betting on whether the outdated Premier League pre-match handshake tradition will be scrapped by next season and at 12-1 I'd say that's a very good bet.

More interesting, though, is the betting, next time the two North West giants meet, on whether Liverpool boss Kenny Dalglish will shake hands with his Scottish nemesis.

Dalglish will be fuming that he's been forced into a humiliating climbdown by a PR drive at Anfield while Fergie has been allowed to escape scot-free for his incendiary comments.

Fergie should tread warily on the race row. Last time he got involved in a race row, Rock Of Gibraltar cost him a fortune.

BetVictor offer 16-1 for the two Scots not to shake when United next face Liverpool. Not a good bet -Dalglish will shake with rage.

Suarez's dignified response to scoring and his equally dignified response to Patrice Evra's dangerously provocative gloating should have spared him the vitriol heaped on him because of a) his decision not to shake the Frenchman's hand, and b) his decision to be Uruguayan.

Wayne Bridge was a hero when he snubbed John Terry's handshake; Samir Nasri drew no criticism for a similar snub to William Gallas. But Suarez has been deemed the villain in a media pantomime so even if he'd sponsored a Mother Teresa fun run around the Old Trafford pitch on Saturday you suspect he'd have been castigated for cruelty to pensioners. Wayne Rooney would merely have asked for her number
Click to expand...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/betting-hots-up-on-luis-suarez-683551
[/quote]

Makes perfect sense to me.
Try showing that to a manc or any other Ferguson apologist though...

BTW, haven't seen any denunciation of Roonie's tweet that Suarez should have seen a red card for that foul on Parker. Is it perceived as "normal" for a footballer to say such a thing in a match his team was not involved in?
[/quote]

Ferguson's been shipping a bit of stick for his behaviour on Saturday in the papers I've seen, and on the radio to a lesser extent. Makes a refreshing change.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=48661.msg1482618#msg1482618 date=1329231135]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=48661.msg1482605#msg1482605 date=1329226550]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=48661.msg1482587#msg1482587 date=1329223834]
Derek McGovern in not being a facetious twat shocker:


It's an interesting code of ethics Sir Alex Ferguson lives by when it comes to footballers.

Kung-fu kick a fan? That's fine. Sleep with your brother's wife? No problem. Bed an OAP prostitute? Splendid. Admit to deliberately trying to break an opponent's leg? Boys will be boys. Refuse to shake hands with an opponent? Ban for life.

Everyone will have a view on Luis Suarez's conduct on Saturday but far more unpalatable was the fact that Fergie was allowed to poke his purple nose into another club's business without censure.

Bookies Boylesports are betting on whether the outdated Premier League pre-match handshake tradition will be scrapped by next season and at 12-1 I'd say that's a very good bet.

More interesting, though, is the betting, next time the two North West giants meet, on whether Liverpool boss Kenny Dalglish will shake hands with his Scottish nemesis.

Dalglish will be fuming that he's been forced into a humiliating climbdown by a PR drive at Anfield while Fergie has been allowed to escape scot-free for his incendiary comments.

Fergie should tread warily on the race row. Last time he got involved in a race row, Rock Of Gibraltar cost him a fortune.

BetVictor offer 16-1 for the two Scots not to shake when United next face Liverpool. Not a good bet -Dalglish will shake with rage.

Suarez's dignified response to scoring and his equally dignified response to Patrice Evra's dangerously provocative gloating should have spared him the vitriol heaped on him because of a) his decision not to shake the Frenchman's hand, and b) his decision to be Uruguayan.

Wayne Bridge was a hero when he snubbed John Terry's handshake; Samir Nasri drew no criticism for a similar snub to William Gallas. But Suarez has been deemed the villain in a media pantomime so even if he'd sponsored a Mother Teresa fun run around the Old Trafford pitch on Saturday you suspect he'd have been castigated for cruelty to pensioners. Wayne Rooney would merely have asked for her number
Click to expand...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/betting-hots-up-on-luis-suarez-683551
[/quote]

Makes perfect sense to me.
Try showing that to a manc or any other Ferguson apologist though...

BTW, haven't seen any denunciation of Roonie's tweet that Suarez should have seen a red card for that foul on Parker. Is it perceived as "normal" for a footballer to say such a thing in a match his team was not involved in?
[/quote]

Ferguson's been shipping a bit of stick for his behaviour on Saturday in the papers I've seen, and on the radio to a lesser extent. Makes a refreshing change.
[/quote]

good to hear that, better late than never.
 
I F*CKING LOVE Suarez for not shaking that c*nts hand !!!! I know it did the club some damage but you have to see it from his point of view !!!

He was wronged - and will forever in this country be labelled a racist !!!

His Muhammad Ali moment !!!! Come on you REDS !!!!

(Just been watching Istanbul 2005 stuff on youtube !!!)

MORON
 
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