So how do we improve?

[keniget]

The forum seems filled with threads talking about the improvement of certain players and the success of others right now, which I suppose is normal as we've just played well and won a game. It's pretty obvious however that there are some fairly big chinks in our armour and we're going to have to be pretty ruthless in order to improve. How are we going to do it and who is going to have to be sacrificed?

The defence

Our true weak spot or are their errors being magnified by the less noticeable ones in front of them?

Is Enrique good enough given some of his performances or is he still too inconsistent?

The midfield

Is not good enough and needs addressing as a matter of priority. Every player has their plus points, which makes this a difficult call.

The attack

Like Enrique, Downing has improved recently. Has he done enough to stay in the first team next season? You get the feeling that with him it's either first team or nothing because he's not got the mentality to be a squad player.

 

[Mystic]

I'm hoping Downing keeps up his form, we sell him for a decent price in the summer, and he moves back to being a big fish in a small pond. We can then buy another winger to replace him. Everyone's happy.

 

[tony]

A top quality holding midfielder and a centre back are the positions we desperately need to fill. That and a change of formation in midfield should stiffen us up a bit and make it less easy for sides to play through us. We just look pathetic when the opposition are running toward our defence.

 

[hmmmmm1]

Another quality Striker.

 

[Glen C]

New goalkeeper, hyypia clone, left back, wanyama or diame, backup striker, and a downing replacement (even though i would keep downing as a squad player). Also a change in formation as our midfield is just too open and we invite pressure. Im all for playing a passing game, but there's no reason to leave ourselves so open all the time.

 

[Rosco]

No suggestions as to sacrifices yet?

Defence- Reina, Skrtel, Johnson, Enrique, Agger. All open to offers, they don't all necessarily need to be sold but they don't need to be kept either.

Midfield - Lucas can go in Jan 2014 after he's found some form. Henderson and Allen can stay unless we get a silly offer. Keep the young uns, phase Gerrard out.

Attackers - Downing can go if someone is willing to pay his contract. The others we should keep for now, at least until Suarez hands in a transfer request.

 

[Ossi]

A new defensive coach in and replacements for Reina, a cb, Lucas and Downing can go. And all out on loan I guess.

 

[Glen C]

No suggestions as to sacrifices yet?

Defence- Reina, Skrtel, Johnson, Enrique, Agger. All open to offers, they don't all necessarily need to be sold but they don't need to be kept either.

Midfield - Lucas can go in Jan 2014 after he's found some form. Henderson and Allen can stay unless we get a silly offer. Keep the young uns, phase Gerrard out.

Attackers - Downing can go if someone is willing to pay his contract. The others we should keep for now, at least until Suarez hands in a transfer request.

Sacrifices. The players i would definitely keep would be johnson, sturridge, suarez, sterling. suso, coutinho, gerrard. The rest i'd be open to offers if they were good enough. Undecided on lucas, he's definitely getting his form back so actually i'd keep him too. But the rest can go if we could get improvements.

But also you can have the best players in the world, but it will make no difference if we keep playing this open game crap.

 

[Zlate]

Our defence have no cover at the back like when xabi and mascherano guarded it, that is our problem. We need a beast in DM to help Lucas and the defence.

The difference is we had players who would attack but also defend. Johnson/Arbeloa had Kuyt helping cover, now our backline is left exposed if we lose possession. That's our problem

 

[gkmacca]

I'm sick of DMs.

 

[Squiggles]

Our defence have no cover at the back like when xabi and mascherano guarded it, that is our problem. We need a beast in DM to help Lucas and the defence.

The difference is we had players who would attack but also defend. Johnson/Arbeloa had Kuyt helping cover, now our backline is left exposed if we lose possession. That's our problem

Agree with that, although I would say we need a beast of a DM to replace/compete with Lucas.

 

[gkmacca]

Souness was a beast of a midfielder who dominated all over the place. I'm sick of players being constrained, constraining themselves, by the notion of a DM. It's a waste of a place.

 

[Squiggles]

I'd usually agree, but we're playing as very fluid, attack-minded system at the moment with very few set-positions, and this is costing us when we give the ball away because we're not in a decent position to recover from. For the way we're playing to continue and be a success, we need to have someone holding and cleaning up around us. I have doubts whether Lucas has the energy or the pace for it. Frustratingly, what we need is Javier Mascherano.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

I tend to agree with Macca here, I think the defence should be able to look after themselves a bit more.
As to Kenni's original poser.
Last year no one would have imagined we would think our centre backs would be facing the justified stick they are, they were rightly vaunted as probably the best pairing in the league. Reina however had been dissed out later in the season as becoming suspect and this was compounded in the Cup Final.
I would wait before we carried out major surgery on the back 4. I would certainly make sure we had cover p. I would also look to getting a top goalie, Pepe looks like he is in his way one-way or the other.
We also need another striker, not one to compete but as good back-up, one that knows where the net is and quite happy to pick up 40k a week on two year contract and spend time on the bench, so somone who has seen his better days elsewhere, a Bervatov sort. We also need to look for a dynamic Gerrard replacement, we might have that but I am not sure, which also applies to the CB cover.
Other than that we need to see how the rest develop over the next 12 months.


regards

 

[keniget]

It'll be interesting to see what the management do in the summer because there are a number of ways they could play it looking at the sorts of problems we've shown this season.

The defence has been in the spotlight as a result of repeated individual and collective mistakes and therefore there may be a temptation to focus on the defence. The argument for doing so can be strengthened by the fact that Carra is retiring, Coates seems to be out of favour for one reason or another and we lack squad depth in the fullback areas. The problem with focusing on this area however is that it's going to be incredibly hard to get it right.

It's almost become accepted wisdom that we would do well to replace one of Agger or Sktel with a top class defender. What we need is the leadership and organizational qualities of Carra and and someone to also restore the aerial competitiveness we have missed since Sami left. And on top of this, Rodgers philosophy / system / whatever you want to call it demands that there is technique present also no matter how much people hark back to the adage that a defenders job is to defend (as Rurik eloquently explained a while back). This is a job description that is going to be very hard to find suitable candidates for even if we are prepared to compromise in certain areas.

So with that in mind and the fact that we're looking to play a possession game, I'd look to focus first and foremost on our midfield and attack.

The two main problems with the midfield as far as my untrained eye can see is that:

1 - Allen has failed to make an impact
2 - Our midfield formation doesn't play to our strengths (see: playing Shelvey and Henderson in advanced roles)

I do wonder whether (1) has had a large bearing on (2) but really the first thing that Rodgers needs to decide is whether he sticks or twists with Allen. He was billed as the Welsh Xavi and really that's what we've needed the season - moreso than an out and out defensive midfielder. We lack someone to dictate the rhythm of our play.

It seems like we're stuck with Gerrard in some kind of hybrid playmaker role for which I'm still not entirely convinced he's best suited to. He has improved in his ability to play a more measured game but it doesn't play to his strengths and it also doesn't give us a natural fit for the role Rodgers system so desperately needs. Gerrard's equivalent in the Barcelona side is Iniesta - someone that break the passing rhythm and try something different. He shouldn't and can't be our Xavi.

So what would I do?

Spearing sold (obv).

Shelvey loaned out. There is a player in there somewhere but we can't afford to let him learn on the job here and both parties would benefit from a loan deal.

Henderson stays. He's young, English, improving and offers the most versatility in terms of roles and systems he can play in.

So the choice boils down to Lucas and Allen. If finances permit it, I'd keep both for the squad but otherwise I'd sacrifice whoever affords us the best chance of getting in the midfielder we need.

I'll do attack and defence later.

 

[refugee]

A defensive midfielder doesn't have to concentrate entirely on defence. Petit was a fine example of someone who could play defence and contribute to the attack with his passing. Masher could also play a bit, he was however forced to dictate the tempo in his last season due to Alonso leaving and Lucas offering nothing going forward which had the effect of highlighting his errors more.

In saying that, if we are going to continue playing with attacking full backs, I'd prefer a dedicated, specialist defensive midfielder over our current offerings.

 

[gkmacca]

A defensive midfielder doesn't have to concentrate entirely on defence. .

No, and an attacking midfielder doesn't have to concentrate entirely on the attack. That's why, ultimately, it would be a far more mature and cohesive team if one player doesn't straitjacket himself mentally into this modern cliche.

 

[refugee]

No, and an attacking midfielder doesn't have to concentrate entirely on the attack. That's why, ultimately, it would be a far more mature and cohesive team if one player doesn't straitjacket himself mentally into this modern cliche.

It sounds ok on paper but it's easier to find specialist in one position or role than it is to find someone good enough to attack and defend (at a high enough standard). We will inevitably end up with some jack of all trades that isn't good enough at anything.

 

[StevieM]

I've said before that the player we need to buy in the summer should be the player who takes over the captaincy from Gerrard.

For me it's a dominant centre back in the Hypia mould or we need our own version of a Roy Keane that will own the midfield.

I have no names - but if we added the quality of those two types of players - and we're talking about players in their mid 20's and not kids who are going to need time - then we could effectively manage with what we've got.

 

[Squiggles]

My point on signing a specific, high energy DM is based on the fact that out fullbacks are often acting more as secondary wingers and therefore I think we need a triangle at the back which can allow this strategy to continue. I'm not ready to tear up the defense just yet. I felt they showed enough promise last year to be worth persisting with and this tweak could help them recover to last seasons performances.

When we're on the attack this combination should rarely move.

-----------------DM------------------
--------Skrtel-------Agger-------

 

[tony]

No, and an attacking midfielder doesn't have to concentrate entirely on the attack. That's why, ultimately, it would be a far more mature and cohesive team if one player doesn't straitjacket himself mentally into this modern cliche.

Moutihno would be my pick if we could get him - a good organiser and anticipater not afraid to put his foot in who is great going forward

 

[Zlate]

I'd love for us to go for Toni Kroos, he is young and could take over from Gerrard when he is ready to step down and he is German

 

[rurikbird]

I think there is no doubt we will have to buy a couple of defenders in the summer, just to replace Carra and Coates. One of them should be either able to play as a full-back (like Höwedes) or even a specialist fullback, because I do think we have a problem with both our full-backs not being solid enough defensively. I like Johnson and Enrique, but for some games we just need to have a more solid defender at FB - if we do, I think you will find that our CBs' form will improve too.

In addition, we will most likely need a new goalkeeper. We all know who is the #1 choice (say it with me, Marc Andre Ter Stegen!). So that's already 2 or 3 top-class or top-talent signings we will HAVE to make. I don't think that will leave much room or budget for anything else. Maybe someone like Ince or a 3-rd choice striker. Maybe some opportunity will be just too good to pass up - like that Sneijder link in January or Xabi possibly entertaining a come back. But that's about it. I have no doubt that Allen will get at least another season to find himself and Lucas will improve enough to make a DM much less of a priority.

Keni, I wouldn't compare Gerrard with Iniesta in any way. It's hard to find 2 midfielders with more dramatically different styles than those 2.

 

[rurikbird]

I'd love for us to go for Toni Kroos, he is young and could take over from Gerrard when he is ready to step down and he is German

There is 0 chance of him leaving Munich.

 

[Wilko7]

I've said before that the player we need to buy in the summer should be the player who takes over the captaincy from Gerrard.

For me it's a dominant centre back in the Hypia mould or we need our own version of a Roy Keane that will own the midfield.

I have no names - but if we added the quality of those two types of players - and we're talking about players in their mid 20's and not kids who are going to need time - then we could effectively manage with what we've got.

Trouble is that Roy Keane would be far less effective with today's refereeing.

 

[rurikbird]

Trouble is that Roy Keane would be far less effective with today's refereeing.

Yet somehow players like van Bommel and De Jong still make a career in top-level football. I can never understand how they do it.

 

[Molbystwin]

I think Enrique has been playing very well of late and i like it when both he and Johnson play, neither of them are the greatest defenders but both are quick and can pass and fit in with the attacking fullback mode.

Centre backs have been poor this season, personally i think a lot of it is down to how we have been expecting them to play in our new style but... yeah needs looking at no doubt, the fact that Carraghers leadership alone has shone out and he is retiring means we should have the scouts out looking for a player anyway.

Lucas has not yet come back to the good level he achieved before his injury and Allen has not really shown enough quality so far for a team which has the ambition of being in the top echelon, he may well come good as did Henderson after a poor first season and people forget his age he is a young lad and has just stepped up to a massive club... Lucas was really wank as a young player with us for a LONG time before he beagn to show up so I'm not discounting Joe yet.

I do think it wouldnt hurt to have a bit more steel in the middle tbh, who, how, etc i dont know.

I am optimistic about our attacking players at the moment but we do need more depth to supplement Suarez and the revelation of Sturridge. It is far too early to judge the desperately unlucky Borini.

Coutinho looks promising as did Sterling in flashes, Downing can do a job as he has shown recently but I'm thinking it wouldnt hurt to have a little more goal threat. We do look a lot better with Sturridge in the team and although he has displayed great touch and shooting I dont think thats been the difference, for me it's the injection of pace that he has brought us which is making the difference. Either way I think we need more than just 2 strikers, maybe thats why Yesil was bought but i read he's picked up an bad injury and still is just a kid so maybe....

It is really very hard to judge us this season, on the face of it we have been pretty much atrocious in all areas of the pitch at various times but then on others weve played some lovely stuff and looked like contenders. After the last game you just wish the season was a bit longer and we can go on a big winning run but then the 2 games before...

fuck knows really.

For that reason I reckon priority 1 should be striker/attacker cos whatever happens at least we will score and be entertaining.

 

[carlv]

Which teams in the league above us have a dedicated Defensive Midfielder I don't think anty do. Below are the figures they have scored/conceded
Utd 62/31
City 48/24
Chelsea 55/28
Spurs 44/30
Arsenal 50/29
Everton 40/32
Liverpool 49/34

 

[OLD_Lewy]

is assaidi playing in the reserves or what? biggest mystery for a while for me

 

[mark1975]

We don't particularly need an out and out DM, that in itself can create it's own problems, but we do need more athleticism and power in there, we lack it painfully when Lucas AND Allen play, at least Shelvey will get stuck in and Henderson will cover ground.

The main priority has to be a commanding centre back, like said, the defense to a certain degree 'should' be able to take care of itself, united manage to get by without a real DM and have done for sometime.