Police have confirmed he left a suicide note. Such a shame.
RIP.
RIP.
Robert Enke killed by a train
- Thread starter IanTheRed
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Shocking stuff RIP
[quote author=Bradley link=topic=37101.msg985765#msg985765 date=1257887576]
RIP.
Pretty tough time for his wife in what must already have been a really tough few years.
[/quote]
is right... its a fucking terrible way to go and selfish in the extreme, thats not to say its not a tragedy and i dont have sympathy for him, i really do but... fucking hell imagine how his wife feels!
RIP.
Pretty tough time for his wife in what must already have been a really tough few years.
[/quote]
is right... its a fucking terrible way to go and selfish in the extreme, thats not to say its not a tragedy and i dont have sympathy for him, i really do but... fucking hell imagine how his wife feels!
S
Squiggles
Guest
The debate's been done before but rational minded people cannot and should not judge the thought processes of those suffering from serious depression.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=37101.msg986263#msg986263 date=1257948812]
The debate's been done before but rational minded people cannot and should not judge the thought processes of those suffering from serious depression.
[/quote]
true enough its just a fucking terrible thing to do to those behind, im sure he didnt do it for a laugh or because he was havinga bad day... i am sympathetic... but his wife... think about tha a minute.
And the train driver for that matter!
he could have least of found a high bridge!
The debate's been done before but rational minded people cannot and should not judge the thought processes of those suffering from serious depression.
[/quote]
true enough its just a fucking terrible thing to do to those behind, im sure he didnt do it for a laugh or because he was havinga bad day... i am sympathetic... but his wife... think about tha a minute.
And the train driver for that matter!
he could have least of found a high bridge!
S
Squiggles
Guest
You're right to extend the greatest sympathies to his wife but again, I'd just echo my previous post. It's like your mate taking a heap of hallucinogenics and you see them talking to a tree, or whatever. You don't expect rational or considerate thought, because their brain isn't in a fit state.
As for the train driver, unfortunately it's just part of the job. If he's got any sense about him he'll recognise he's blameless and move on quickly enough.
As for the train driver, unfortunately it's just part of the job. If he's got any sense about him he'll recognise he's blameless and move on quickly enough.
And the hacks keep piling on the pressure through poorly written stories and sensationalist hype to destroy players.
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=37101.msg986327#msg986327 date=1257954937]
From Justin Fashanu, through Gascoigne and on to today, football still seems absolutely shite when it comes to dealing with depression and other mental/emotional problems.
[/quote]
There definitely should be systems set up and help and support, I'm sure there probably is these days at most clubs, but some people with depression shut others off and hide their illness well, or at the very least the severity of it. Even with all the support you can give, some people just don't have the capacity to get over their problems. Like anything, I guess it's in your biological make-up, how prone you are to anxiety and depression, and how the severity of how it hits you.
As Nessy just said though, the hacks certainly don't help, but it goes with the territory.
From Justin Fashanu, through Gascoigne and on to today, football still seems absolutely shite when it comes to dealing with depression and other mental/emotional problems.
[/quote]
There definitely should be systems set up and help and support, I'm sure there probably is these days at most clubs, but some people with depression shut others off and hide their illness well, or at the very least the severity of it. Even with all the support you can give, some people just don't have the capacity to get over their problems. Like anything, I guess it's in your biological make-up, how prone you are to anxiety and depression, and how the severity of how it hits you.
As Nessy just said though, the hacks certainly don't help, but it goes with the territory.
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=37101.msg986327#msg986327 date=1257954937]
From Justin Fashanu, through Gascoigne and on to today, football still seems absolutely shite when it comes to dealing with depression and other mental/emotional problems.
[/quote]
"I don't understand how somebody with that much money can call themselves 'depressed' anyway!"
From Justin Fashanu, through Gascoigne and on to today, football still seems absolutely shite when it comes to dealing with depression and other mental/emotional problems.
[/quote]
"I don't understand how somebody with that much money can call themselves 'depressed' anyway!"
Depressed, mentally ill person kills self
The End
*shrugs*
Am I supposed to care more because he was a footballer?
I don't
The End
*shrugs*
Am I supposed to care more because he was a footballer?
I don't
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37101.msg985912#msg985912 date=1257899739]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=37101.msg985904#msg985904 date=1257898719]
What Dean Ashton news by the way?
[/quote]
He missed his train home last night.
[/quote]
Ha ha excellant.
Am I the only one who feels no smypathy for him considering that he has not only taken his own life but ruined the lives of his family and close friends for a ery long time?
Suicide can be a ery selfish act and this definately seems like the case. His wife must be shattered. I've had suicide close to home and it leaves you with an unmovable feeling of regret that you could have helped or done something different.
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=37101.msg985904#msg985904 date=1257898719]
What Dean Ashton news by the way?
[/quote]
He missed his train home last night.
[/quote]
Ha ha excellant.
Am I the only one who feels no smypathy for him considering that he has not only taken his own life but ruined the lives of his family and close friends for a ery long time?
Suicide can be a ery selfish act and this definately seems like the case. His wife must be shattered. I've had suicide close to home and it leaves you with an unmovable feeling of regret that you could have helped or done something different.
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=37101.msg986056#msg986056 date=1257935577]
It's tragic that, however great the hell he was going through himself, he didn't stop to realise that his action was destined to put his wife through something even worse. But I guess he'd lost the ability to think clearly.
[/quote]
That would be my thinking and I've been through a similar situation and I all can imagine is how much his wife is beating herself up over this.
It's tragic that, however great the hell he was going through himself, he didn't stop to realise that his action was destined to put his wife through something even worse. But I guess he'd lost the ability to think clearly.
[/quote]
That would be my thinking and I've been through a similar situation and I all can imagine is how much his wife is beating herself up over this.
I agree with Dreambeliever on this one. Feel sorry for his wife, family and friends.
Dunno what "offing" himself would solve.
Sure, I don't know how it feels to lose a daughter, nor do I know how it feels to be a sidelined with an injury while being a professional footballer.
Having adopted a daughter and being back in contention in the national team and the club team I don't see why he had to kill himself.
On a side note the Bishop Margot Kaessmann ended Enke's memorial service by saying, in English, "You'll Never Walk Alone".
I wish the same could be said to his wife.
Dunno what "offing" himself would solve.
Sure, I don't know how it feels to lose a daughter, nor do I know how it feels to be a sidelined with an injury while being a professional footballer.
Having adopted a daughter and being back in contention in the national team and the club team I don't see why he had to kill himself.
On a side note the Bishop Margot Kaessmann ended Enke's memorial service by saying, in English, "You'll Never Walk Alone".
I wish the same could be said to his wife.
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37101.msg986656#msg986656 date=1257990516]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37101.msg985912#msg985912 date=1257899739]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=37101.msg985904#msg985904 date=1257898719]
What Dean Ashton news by the way?
[/quote]
He missed his train home last night.
[/quote]
Ha ha excellant.
[/quote]
Thank fuck somebody got this.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37101.msg985912#msg985912 date=1257899739]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=37101.msg985904#msg985904 date=1257898719]
What Dean Ashton news by the way?
[/quote]
He missed his train home last night.
[/quote]
Ha ha excellant.
[/quote]
Thank fuck somebody got this.
Woah, wait a sec. I didn't say I felt *no* sympathy. Just no more (or less) simply because he's involved in football.
Seems to have turned into a massive media story, though.
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37101.msg986656#msg986656 date=1257990516]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37101.msg985912#msg985912 date=1257899739]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=37101.msg985904#msg985904 date=1257898719]
What Dean Ashton news by the way?
[/quote]
He missed his train home last night.
[/quote]
Ha ha excellant.
Am I the only one who feels no smypathy for him considering that he has not only taken his own life but ruined the lives of his family and close friends for a very long time?
Suicide can be a ery selfish act and this definately seems like the case. His wife must be shattered. I've had suicide close to home and it leaves you with an unmovable feeling of regret that you could have helped or done something different.
[/quote]
Did you feel sympathy for that person "close to home" who committed suicide?
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37101.msg985912#msg985912 date=1257899739]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=37101.msg985904#msg985904 date=1257898719]
What Dean Ashton news by the way?
[/quote]
He missed his train home last night.
[/quote]
Ha ha excellant.
Am I the only one who feels no smypathy for him considering that he has not only taken his own life but ruined the lives of his family and close friends for a very long time?
Suicide can be a ery selfish act and this definately seems like the case. His wife must be shattered. I've had suicide close to home and it leaves you with an unmovable feeling of regret that you could have helped or done something different.
[/quote]
Did you feel sympathy for that person "close to home" who committed suicide?
I figured this would be a good article to post re depression of footballers:
Dealing with depression – or not
Thursday 12 November 2009 11:48
Rich, famous and in some cases good-looking, no one would ever think that a professional footballer would suffer from depression.
However, even the profession that just about every school-boy dreams about one day joining is not immune to dark moments as we have unfortunately witnessed with the German goalkeeper Robert Enke’s suicide.
The Italian department of health has been studying the mental health of the Italian population and has come up with a figure of one in 10 who are suffering from depression.
Footballers suffer from the same problems the rest of the population face in everyday life – loss of job, lack of esteem and in the end what does it all mean?
One of those footballers is Mohamed Sissoko, who revealed to La Gazzetta dello Sport that he had fallen into depression very recently after picking up a serious foot injury, which kept him sidelined for seven months.
The midfielder’s Juventus team-mate Gianluigi Buffon is another who has felt the weight of the world on his shoulders, as he revealed in his autobiography.
“I wasn't satisfied with my life and football, which is my job. My legs would start shaking all of a sudden,†he wrote. “It was a dark period because I am a sunny and optimistic person. I was thinking how can rich and normal people suffer from depression?â€
LEFT TO SINK OR SWIM
Adriano turned to alcohol after the death of his father and Christian Vieri admitted that his mental well-being declined when injury kept him out of the 2006 World Cup.
At present, only Siena employ a full-time psychologist, although Genoa offer support to their players through a consultant while AC Milan, AS Roma and Udinese are in the process of hiring a expert in the field of behavioural interaction.
However, in general, footballers are left to sink or swim with their own thoughts.
Look at Davide Santon – just 18 but weighed down with a ‘new Maldini’ tag, the youngster was left weeping on the pitch during Inter’s recent league game with Palermo.
The teenager had come on at the start of the second half with the champions leading 4-0 only to be at fault with defensive slips as the visitors pulled the scoreline back to 4-2 at one stage.
Inter ran out 5-3 winners in the end but it was all too much for Santon. Having been berated by his team-mates, he broke-down in tears and was inconsolable as he wandered back to the dressing room at the final whistle.
He has not appeared in the Inter squad since and after looking odds-on to make the final Italy 23 for South Africa he is now back in the Under-21s.
STRESS IS ON THE RISE
Santon’s team-mate Mario Balotelli is also suffering under his own weight of expectation – some of it his own making - and his surly attitude may hide a crisis of confidence as it dawns on him, at 19 years old, that the world of football is a cruel place indeed.
Doctor Maria Madalena Ferrari of the Italian Olympic Institute of Science claims that stress amongst athletes in general was on the rise.
“The goals are higher than ever before and this adds more pressure,†she told La Gazzetta dello Sport. “Just as the body must be trained to perform to its best so must the mind. Sportsmen and women need to prepare for the lows as well as coping with the highs.â€
Footballers in Serie A can find some solace in decent wages and secure contracts to lessen the blow of a loss of form – but if it persists, just like long-term injuries, it finally wears even the toughest character down.
Ciro Capuano does not play for a big club but has spent his career at the likes of Empoli, Bologna and currently Catania. At 28, the full-back has been down that dark tunnel of despair when he lost all confidence: so much so he actually found it difficult to take the pitch.
Thankfully, his family and friends rallied round and helped him come through to rebuild his career.
Some have taken to employing their own life coaches – the most well-known being Vittorio Tognazzi, who has 100 Serie A and B clients on his books.
His greatest success came in 2006, when Fabio Grosso stepped up to take the winning penalty in the World Cup final.“I knew Fabio would score,†recalled Tognazzi of that heady evening in Berlin.
“A few months earlier he didn’t even think he would be in the Italy squad but we worked together and I even sent him text messages when he was in Germany. When it came to the big moment I could see he was ready to be a world champion.â€
SUPPORT AND GUIDANCE
It's just about every boy’s dream in Italy to become a footballer; such was the case with Fabrizio Miccoli, who at 12 years old was shipped off during the holidays from the deep south near Lecce to AC Milan.
However, without the comfort of family around, the tears became too much and he soon found a team nearer home.
Since then the Italian Football Association have taken measures to ensure that all youth teams have staff on hand to offer support and guidance to their young charges: on their education, dealing with homesickness, settling into a new region of the country and so forth.
Football is a way of life and even for the most talented the sacrifices are not to everyone’s liking, but any youngsters entering the sport can at least take heart that in the future help will be at hand on those first tentative steps.
It is when they enter the world of the professional game that they might soon get the blues.
http://fourfourtwo.com/blogs/serieaaaaargh/archive/2009/11/12/dealing-with-depression-or-not.aspx
Dealing with depression – or not
Thursday 12 November 2009 11:48
Rich, famous and in some cases good-looking, no one would ever think that a professional footballer would suffer from depression.
However, even the profession that just about every school-boy dreams about one day joining is not immune to dark moments as we have unfortunately witnessed with the German goalkeeper Robert Enke’s suicide.
The Italian department of health has been studying the mental health of the Italian population and has come up with a figure of one in 10 who are suffering from depression.
Footballers suffer from the same problems the rest of the population face in everyday life – loss of job, lack of esteem and in the end what does it all mean?
One of those footballers is Mohamed Sissoko, who revealed to La Gazzetta dello Sport that he had fallen into depression very recently after picking up a serious foot injury, which kept him sidelined for seven months.
The midfielder’s Juventus team-mate Gianluigi Buffon is another who has felt the weight of the world on his shoulders, as he revealed in his autobiography.
“I wasn't satisfied with my life and football, which is my job. My legs would start shaking all of a sudden,†he wrote. “It was a dark period because I am a sunny and optimistic person. I was thinking how can rich and normal people suffer from depression?â€
LEFT TO SINK OR SWIM
Adriano turned to alcohol after the death of his father and Christian Vieri admitted that his mental well-being declined when injury kept him out of the 2006 World Cup.
At present, only Siena employ a full-time psychologist, although Genoa offer support to their players through a consultant while AC Milan, AS Roma and Udinese are in the process of hiring a expert in the field of behavioural interaction.
However, in general, footballers are left to sink or swim with their own thoughts.
Look at Davide Santon – just 18 but weighed down with a ‘new Maldini’ tag, the youngster was left weeping on the pitch during Inter’s recent league game with Palermo.
The teenager had come on at the start of the second half with the champions leading 4-0 only to be at fault with defensive slips as the visitors pulled the scoreline back to 4-2 at one stage.
Inter ran out 5-3 winners in the end but it was all too much for Santon. Having been berated by his team-mates, he broke-down in tears and was inconsolable as he wandered back to the dressing room at the final whistle.
He has not appeared in the Inter squad since and after looking odds-on to make the final Italy 23 for South Africa he is now back in the Under-21s.
STRESS IS ON THE RISE
Santon’s team-mate Mario Balotelli is also suffering under his own weight of expectation – some of it his own making - and his surly attitude may hide a crisis of confidence as it dawns on him, at 19 years old, that the world of football is a cruel place indeed.
Doctor Maria Madalena Ferrari of the Italian Olympic Institute of Science claims that stress amongst athletes in general was on the rise.
“The goals are higher than ever before and this adds more pressure,†she told La Gazzetta dello Sport. “Just as the body must be trained to perform to its best so must the mind. Sportsmen and women need to prepare for the lows as well as coping with the highs.â€
Footballers in Serie A can find some solace in decent wages and secure contracts to lessen the blow of a loss of form – but if it persists, just like long-term injuries, it finally wears even the toughest character down.
Ciro Capuano does not play for a big club but has spent his career at the likes of Empoli, Bologna and currently Catania. At 28, the full-back has been down that dark tunnel of despair when he lost all confidence: so much so he actually found it difficult to take the pitch.
Thankfully, his family and friends rallied round and helped him come through to rebuild his career.
Some have taken to employing their own life coaches – the most well-known being Vittorio Tognazzi, who has 100 Serie A and B clients on his books.
His greatest success came in 2006, when Fabio Grosso stepped up to take the winning penalty in the World Cup final.“I knew Fabio would score,†recalled Tognazzi of that heady evening in Berlin.
“A few months earlier he didn’t even think he would be in the Italy squad but we worked together and I even sent him text messages when he was in Germany. When it came to the big moment I could see he was ready to be a world champion.â€
SUPPORT AND GUIDANCE
It's just about every boy’s dream in Italy to become a footballer; such was the case with Fabrizio Miccoli, who at 12 years old was shipped off during the holidays from the deep south near Lecce to AC Milan.
However, without the comfort of family around, the tears became too much and he soon found a team nearer home.
Since then the Italian Football Association have taken measures to ensure that all youth teams have staff on hand to offer support and guidance to their young charges: on their education, dealing with homesickness, settling into a new region of the country and so forth.
Football is a way of life and even for the most talented the sacrifices are not to everyone’s liking, but any youngsters entering the sport can at least take heart that in the future help will be at hand on those first tentative steps.
It is when they enter the world of the professional game that they might soon get the blues.
http://fourfourtwo.com/blogs/serieaaaaargh/archive/2009/11/12/dealing-with-depression-or-not.aspx
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37101.msg986665#msg986665 date=1257993704]
As has been noted elsewhere, it's hard to make judgements on somebody who's been diagnosed as suffering from depression.
[/quote]
Agree, but I'd go further still and say it's impossible. My brother took his own life over twenty years ago and that did cause us a fair few unanswered questions and regrets, but none of us has ever felt able to blame him. It's hard enough for any person to get to the essence of their own thoughts and feelings sometimes, let alone those of someone who finds him/herself so desperate that they feel obliged to take such a step. IMO this is positively the last situation in which any of us should presume to judge.
As has been noted elsewhere, it's hard to make judgements on somebody who's been diagnosed as suffering from depression.
[/quote]
Agree, but I'd go further still and say it's impossible. My brother took his own life over twenty years ago and that did cause us a fair few unanswered questions and regrets, but none of us has ever felt able to blame him. It's hard enough for any person to get to the essence of their own thoughts and feelings sometimes, let alone those of someone who finds him/herself so desperate that they feel obliged to take such a step. IMO this is positively the last situation in which any of us should presume to judge.
S
Squiggles
Guest
Quite.
I was astounded by the lack of sensitivity and sympathy in the 'Is suicide selfish?' thread last year.
Society doesn't 'get' depression at all.
I was astounded by the lack of sensitivity and sympathy in the 'Is suicide selfish?' thread last year.
Society doesn't 'get' depression at all.
My Dad was diagnosed as a manic depressive some years ago. Lots of things fell into place after that.
Sorry to hear that. I'll keep a good thought for you all.
[quote author=dossena link=topic=37101.msg986752#msg986752 date=1258017308]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37101.msg986656#msg986656 date=1257990516]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37101.msg985912#msg985912 date=1257899739]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=37101.msg985904#msg985904 date=1257898719]
What Dean Ashton news by the way?
[/quote]
He missed his train home last night.
[/quote]
Ha ha excellant.
Am I the only one who feels no smypathy for him considering that he has not only taken his own life but ruined the lives of his family and close friends for a very long time?
Suicide can be a ery selfish act and this definately seems like the case. His wife must be shattered. I've had suicide close to home and it leaves you with an unmovable feeling of regret that you could have helped or done something different.
[/quote]
Did you feel sympathy for that person "close to home" who committed suicide?
[/quote]
I've none a lot of people who done it. It seems to be very common these days in young people.
Some I have some I have not. Depends on the circumstance. The close to home one, no I did not as I couldn't believe why the person had done it in todays day and age and worse the pain hurt regret and suffering it caused is still felt today by so many
IMO this footballer had alot to live for and went through his horror not alone but with his wife. Sometimes when something terrible like losing a child happens the only solice is having someone else that knows exactly how you feel that can comfort you and keep you going. In killing himself he left her totally alone and in an even darker place.
All of my sympathy is for the wife and family.
I don't think that makes me cold hearted or a bad person but you may disagree.
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37101.msg986656#msg986656 date=1257990516]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37101.msg985912#msg985912 date=1257899739]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=37101.msg985904#msg985904 date=1257898719]
What Dean Ashton news by the way?
[/quote]
He missed his train home last night.
[/quote]
Ha ha excellant.
Am I the only one who feels no smypathy for him considering that he has not only taken his own life but ruined the lives of his family and close friends for a very long time?
Suicide can be a ery selfish act and this definately seems like the case. His wife must be shattered. I've had suicide close to home and it leaves you with an unmovable feeling of regret that you could have helped or done something different.
[/quote]
Did you feel sympathy for that person "close to home" who committed suicide?
[/quote]
I've none a lot of people who done it. It seems to be very common these days in young people.
Some I have some I have not. Depends on the circumstance. The close to home one, no I did not as I couldn't believe why the person had done it in todays day and age and worse the pain hurt regret and suffering it caused is still felt today by so many
IMO this footballer had alot to live for and went through his horror not alone but with his wife. Sometimes when something terrible like losing a child happens the only solice is having someone else that knows exactly how you feel that can comfort you and keep you going. In killing himself he left her totally alone and in an even darker place.
All of my sympathy is for the wife and family.
I don't think that makes me cold hearted or a bad person but you may disagree.
I don't think either of those things applies, but I strongly disagree with your view of the suicide himself. You're looking at the whole thing in your right mind, whereas that poor guy was nowhere near his.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=37101.msg987334#msg987334 date=1258059278]
Quite.
I was astounded by the lack of sensitivity and sympathy in the 'Is suicide selfish?' thread last year.
Society doesn't 'get' depression at all.
[/quote]
Do you really believe that?
Depression is all over the place and many families have been touched by it.
Quite.
I was astounded by the lack of sensitivity and sympathy in the 'Is suicide selfish?' thread last year.
Society doesn't 'get' depression at all.
[/quote]
Do you really believe that?
Depression is all over the place and many families have been touched by it.
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