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Riera to be sold?

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He's got every right to feel aggrieved but I really hope he keeps it within house this time. The last thing we need is another stand off.

The owners clearly promised him a decent transfer kitty, alongside new contracts for first team players, and they've only been true to their word on the latter.

In simplistic terms we've paid £9M for Johnson this summer, as well as £15M rising to £20M for Aquilani.  But both of these are offset by the Alonso sale, so where's the Keane money and the promised transfer budget?

Maybe this is all too premature and we've got something lined up, but as things stand it doesn't look good, and feels we're being let down when we needed them most.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35290.msg927032#msg927032 date=1250591718]
He's got every right to feel aggrieved but I really hope he keeps it within house this time. The last thing we need is another stand off.

The owners clearly promised him a decent transfer kitty, alongside new contracts for first team players, and they've only been true to their word on the latter.

In simplistic terms we've paid £9M for Johnson this summer, as well as £15M rising to £20M for Aquilani. But both of these are offset by the Alonso sale, so where's the Keane money and the promised transfer budget?

Maybe this is all too premature and we've got something lined up, but as things stand it doesn't look good, and feels we're being let down when we needed them most.
[/quote]

We paid £17m for Johnson. Don't fall into this trap of thinking we "let them off" with the balance of the Crouch money.
The point is still valid we should have had a lot of money to spend this window

regards


regards
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35290.msg927019#msg927019 date=1250590331]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35290.msg927016#msg927016 date=1250589701]
the truth is down the years with owners that have come and gone from other clubs we could have done a lot worse than the yanks but we also could have done a lot better given our standing in world football.
[/quote]

Well me Ross, Vlad and a few others have always said that credit where's it's due, we never had the opportunity to sign players for the fees we've signed Torres, Keane, Masher and Johnson for, before the Yanks arrived.

The question was always going to be about whether, when it came to the crunch, they would back us when in a position of strength on the pitch, even if it meant dipping into their own money because of financial restraints at business level.

This Summer so far suggests that's not going to happen, and if that's the case then they're not the right owners for us, given much of what's been spent so far has been via loans.

I've got no quarms about Rafa being the right man for the job, the progress we made last season was staggering and despite stubborness and some transfer mistakes there's no one better out there and I want the club itself to maintain continuity. But if the American's aren't working in line with that and have their business heads on permanently without showing any sort of affinity with the club or a longing to see us reach our ultimate goal of the title, then they should just go.


[/quote]

Im pleased to read you write that. I know i'm a Yank hater and am known for having a whinge at them whenever possible but....

To suggest that in some way we have never been able to buy in good players previous to the Yanks is just not true is it, X million spend on Collymore and Mcateer in 1995 for example... we have always bought in good players... always. How much did Houllier frittter away on Diouf etc...

I'd wager our net spends have not gone up massively, certainly not when you take in price inflation for the signings and there is an elephant in the room when using that defence of the Yanks, recently in our clubs history we have got a manager who leads us deep into Europe regularly and have massivley increased TV revenue from Sky.

Neither of these thing have anything much to do with Gillet nor Hicks. They were carpet baggers looking for a quick buck but got greedy then got into a row and an unseemly power struggle and left it too late to sell. They want to do the right thing now do they?? If thats true its because they dont have any choice. What have they themselves actually in reality done for us?

As for the "sugar daddy" defence ie you want the club run as a business and its not realistic to expect investment for nothing etc. That is a genuine and valid point but the leveraged loans we are under the yoke of right now are not only highly expensive but they have been placed against the club, how is that beneficial in any way? I cannot for the life of me see how we should be grateful to the owners for that.

I could forgive them if they had managed to bring about a situation such as Arsenals, manager being forced to keep on a tight budget untl the stadium is paid for but we are not in that situation are we? Where is the new stadium?? How long does one take to build? They've had three years now already. Wasn't the increased ticket revenue going to pay for the loans to build it? At the minute we are paying off interest on buying ourselves for gods sake. That wasn't the deal they sold us was it? That's a lie isn't it? Own owners are liars aren't they. Do you honestly believe that we will get a new stadium under those two?? 10M pound redesign for a stadium we cannot afford to build.... you couldnt make it up... They are a complete disaster and they charge the club every year for the priviledge. The fans pay them for it. It's all i can do not to wish them ill but just pray that they sell and leave.

Credit?
Where it is due?

Its due to the banks at high interest Mark.
 
Molby great post, I wasn't trying to be overly defensive of them, quite the contrary, but we did sign players for fairly extravagant fees.

As you say though, we've got little to be thankful to them for on that score if it's been offset towards the club via bank loans.

The sugar-daddy mentality might be unrealistic, but you'd expect any new owner to invest, sowing the seeds and reaping the rewards etc.
 
This is getting beyond ridiculous.

It could well be Xabi, Arby, Leto, Keane, Voronin, Riera, Anderson and Hammill out for roughly £62mil, and we've spent £35mil of that. Even if we sign another major player, we're still going to be breaking even.

I agree that the yanks have possibly improved certain aspects of our club, but they've also saddled us with huge debts and dragged our name through the mud whilst being with us. Oh and they've told many lies and still no sign of a new stadium either.

Get out of our club, get out of our club.......................
 
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=35290.msg927048#msg927048 date=1250593516]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35290.msg927019#msg927019 date=1250590331]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35290.msg927016#msg927016 date=1250589701]
the truth is down the years with owners that have come and gone from other clubs we could have done a lot worse than the yanks but we also could have done a lot better given our standing in world football.
[/quote]

Well me Ross, Vlad and a few others have always said that credit where's it's due, we never had the opportunity to sign players for the fees we've signed Torres, Keane, Masher and Johnson for, before the Yanks arrived.

The question was always going to be about whether, when it came to the crunch, they would back us when in a position of strength on the pitch, even if it meant dipping into their own money because of financial restraints at business level.

This Summer so far suggests that's not going to happen, and if that's the case then they're not the right owners for us, given much of what's been spent so far has been via loans.

I've got no quarms about Rafa being the right man for the job, the progress we made last season was staggering and despite stubborness and some transfer mistakes there's no one better out there and I want the club itself to maintain continuity. But if the American's aren't working in line with that and have their business heads on permanently without showing any sort of affinity with the club or a longing to see us reach our ultimate goal of the title, then they should just go.


[/quote]

Im pleased to read you write that. I know i'm a Yank hater and am known for having a whinge at them whenever possible but....

To suggest that in some way we have never been able to buy in good players previous to the Yanks is just not true is it, X million spend on Collymore and Mcateer in 1995 for example... we have always bought in good players... always. How much did Houllier frittter away on Diouf etc...

I'd wager our net spends have not gone up massively, certainly not when you take in price inflation for the signings and there is an elephant in the room when using that defence of the Yanks, recently in our clubs history we have got a manager who leads us deep into Europe regularly and have massivley increased TV revenue from Sky.

Neither of these thing have anything much to do with Gillet nor Hicks. They were carpet baggers looking for a quick buck but got greedy then got into a row and an unseemly power struggle and left it too late to sell. They want to do the right thing now do they?? If thats true its because they dont have any choice. What have they themselves actually in reality done for us?

As for the "sugar daddy" defence ie you want the club run as a business and its not realistic to expect investment for nothing etc. That is a genuine and valid point but the leveraged loans we are under the yoke of right now are not only highly expensive but they have been placed against the club, how is that beneficial in any way? I cannot for the life of me see how we should be grateful to the owners for that.

I could forgive them if they had managed to bring about a situation such as Arsenals, manager being forced to keep on a tight budget untl the stadium is paid for but we are not in that situation are we? Where is the new stadium?? How long does one take to build? They've had three years now already. Wasn't the increased ticket revenue going to pay for the loans to build it? At the minute we are paying off interest on buying ourselves for gods sake. That wasn't the deal they sold us was it? That's a lie isn't it? Own owners are liars aren't they. Do you honestly believe that we will get a new stadium under those two?? 10M pound redesign for a stadium we cannot afford to build.... you couldnt make it up... They are a complete disaster and they charge the club every year for the priviledge. The fans pay them for it. It's all i can do not to wish them ill but just pray that they sell and leave.

Credit?
Where it is due?

Its due to the banks at high interest Mark.

[/quote]

Once again well said Molby.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=35290.msg927061#msg927061 date=1250594993]
I think that is the best post I've read by Molby.
[/quote]

Some of his "fuckin get in" posts were classics last season.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35290.msg927047#msg927047 date=1250593448]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35290.msg927032#msg927032 date=1250591718]
He's got every right to feel aggrieved but I really hope he keeps it within house this time. The last thing we need is another stand off.

The owners clearly promised him a decent transfer kitty, alongside new contracts for first team players, and they've only been true to their word on the latter.

In simplistic terms we've paid £9M for Johnson this summer, as well as £15M rising to £20M for Aquilani. But both of these are offset by the Alonso sale, so where's the Keane money and the promised transfer budget?

Maybe this is all too premature and we've got something lined up, but as things stand it doesn't look good, and feels we're being let down when we needed them most.
[/quote]

We paid £17m for Johnson. Don't fall into this trap of thinking we "let them off" with the balance of the Crouch money.
The point is still valid we should have had a lot of money to spend this window

regards
[/quote]

I'm not writing it off. I'm thinking purely in terms of outlay this summer. The remainder of the Crouch fee was going to be paid back instalments, therefore could not be significantly put to use this summer.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35290.msg927087#msg927087 date=1250597381]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35290.msg927047#msg927047 date=1250593448]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35290.msg927032#msg927032 date=1250591718]
He's got every right to feel aggrieved but I really hope he keeps it within house this time. The last thing we need is another stand off.

The owners clearly promised him a decent transfer kitty, alongside new contracts for first team players, and they've only been true to their word on the latter.

In simplistic terms we've paid £9M for Johnson this summer, as well as £15M rising to £20M for Aquilani. But both of these are offset by the Alonso sale, so where's the Keane money and the promised transfer budget?

Maybe this is all too premature and we've got something lined up, but as things stand it doesn't look good, and feels we're being let down when we needed them most.
[/quote]

We paid £17m for Johnson. Don't fall into this trap of thinking we "let them off" with the balance of the Crouch money.
The point is still valid we should have had a lot of money to spend this window

regards
[/quote]

I'm not writing it off. I'm thinking purely in terms of outlay this summer. The remainder of the Crouch fee was going to be paid back instalments, therefore could not be significantly put to use this summer.
[/quote]

We're not allowed to discuss "instalments". Apparently its too complicated for some... ;D
 
I'm not convinced yet tho;thee Yanks have proven to be a bunch of pricks who pretty much look at LFC as nothing more than an asset to line their coffers.

They will sell up if they can make a profit; which isn't going to happen if we implode.
 
the yanks aren't selling up. they're in a stronger position now than at the height of their troubles when even making a huge profit wasn't enough for them. they're gonna pay off the entire club through the clubs income and then sell.

its like a flat you own where the tenant pays the mortgage and the money you borrowed for the deposit to buy the place over x years. once it was paid off you sell it for a substantial profit without having any debts against it.

whilst its paying for itself there's very little reason to sell up.
 
Personally, even if we do sign Silva, I'd still want to keep Albert.

And if it's a case of we *have* to sell to buy, then I'd much rather flog off other assets first.

If that isn't an option, I have to say I'd feel quite uncomfortable about the prospect of losing our best option on the left for an unknown quantity
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=35290.msg927103#msg927103 date=1250598426]
the yanks aren't selling up.

[/quote]


I'm not so sure about that Rage.
 
Barcelona And Real Madrid To Battle To Sign Liverpool's Albert Riera


Albert Riera has alerted the La Liga giants after being stunned at his exclusion from Liverpool's opening day squad.

Rafa Benitez claimed the Spanish winger was unavailable due to fitness issues but Riera has been left perplexed by his manager's decision.

Reports in The Mirror claim the 27-year-old has the World Cup in his sights and will not accept a place on the Reds' bench.

Riera believes he should be a regular starter and could not understand why Ryan Babel was picked ahead of him against Tottenham Hotspur.

Barcelona and Real Madrid were alerted to the possibility of snaring Riera when the Spanish international admitted, "I would like to come back to Spain at some point," whilst on duty with his country.

The former Espanyol star signed for Liverpool on transfer deadline day last summer for £8 million and had previously spent a spell on loan at Manchester City in 2006.

Riera has made 40 appearances for the Anfield outfit, scoring five goals.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=35290.msg927103#msg927103 date=1250598426]
the yanks aren't selling up. they're in a stronger position now than at the height of their troubles when even making a huge profit wasn't enough for them. they're gonna pay off the entire club through the clubs income and then sell.

its like a flat you own where the tenant pays the mortgage and the money you borrowed for the deposit to buy the place over x years. once it was paid off you sell it for a substantial profit without having any debts against it.

whilst its paying for itself there's very little reason to sell up.
[/quote]

Exactly so, the only "debt", is the value of the club itself, which they got at the right price. Which is why the refinancing was not likely to be an issue.

regards
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35290.msg927143#msg927143 date=1250602807]
Barcelona And Real Madrid To Battle To Sign Liverpool's Albert Riera


Albert Riera has alerted the La Liga giants after being stunned at his exclusion from Liverpool's opening day squad.

Rafa Benitez claimed the Spanish winger was unavailable due to fitness issues but Riera has been left perplexed by his manager's decision.

Reports in The Mirror claim the 27-year-old has the World Cup in his sights and will not accept a place on the Reds' bench.

Riera believes he should be a regular starter and could not understand why Ryan Babel was picked ahead of him against Tottenham Hotspur.

Barcelona and Real Madrid were alerted to the possibility of snaring Riera when the Spanish international admitted, "I would like to come back to Spain at some point," whilst on duty with his country.

The former Espanyol star signed for Liverpool on transfer deadline day last summer for £8 million and had previously spent a spell on loan at Manchester City in 2006.

Riera has made 40 appearances for the Anfield outfit, scoring five goals.

[/quote]

I think that is fair enough, I would myself. Things like this are usually a pre-cursor to being fucked about all season long

regards
 
[quote author=Paddy link=topic=35290.msg927153#msg927153 date=1250603393]
Rafa also said this is not true.
[/quote]

Rafa also said he wouldn't sell Alonso.
 
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=35290.msg927157#msg927157 date=1250603875]
[quote author=Paddy link=topic=35290.msg927153#msg927153 date=1250603393]
Rafa also said this is not true.
[/quote]

Rafa also said he wouldn't sell Alonso.
[/quote]


Where did Rafa say that?
I must have missed that thread
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35290.msg926942#msg926942 date=1250583972]
If Riera was fit and wanting to play, someone wants fucking

regards
[/quote]

I'd agree with that 100%. If Riera was fit and ready, why suffer Babel?

This thread has depressed me.

Between Johnson 18M, Aquilani 20M and Silva 20+M we could end up sending 60M this summer and not really improving the team.
 
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=35290.msg927180#msg927180 date=1250605790]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35290.msg926942#msg926942 date=1250583972]
If Riera was fit and wanting to play, someone wants fucking

regards
[/quote]

I'd agree with that 100%. If Riera was fit and ready, why suffer Babel?

This thread has depressed me.

Between Johnson 18M, Aquilani 20M and Silva 20+M we could end up sending 60M this summer and not really improving the team.


[/quote]

If you don't think Johnson and Silva would be improvements then your silly. Johnson will prove a great signing, and Silva would be like an even better version of Benayoun. Aqualiani for Alonso is debatable. Clearly most of us would rather have kept Alonso, however if Aqua can get fit, stay fit, he might even end up being an improvement too.
 
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=35290.msg927186#msg927186 date=1250606232]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=35290.msg927180#msg927180 date=1250605790]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35290.msg926942#msg926942 date=1250583972]
If Riera was fit and wanting to play, someone wants fucking

regards
[/quote]

I'd agree with that 100%. If Riera was fit and ready, why suffer Babel?

This thread has depressed me.

Between Johnson 18M, Aquilani 20M and Silva 20+M we could end up sending 60M this summer and not really improving the team.


[/quote]

If you don't think Johnson and Silva would be improvements then your silly. Johnson will prove a great signing, and Silva would be like an even better version of Benayoun. Aqualiani for Alonso is debatable. Clearly most of us would rather have kept Alonso, however if Aqua can get fit, stay fit, he might even end up being an improvement too.
[/quote]

I'm not silly. I'm remarkably astute.

Johnson is an improvement on Arbeloa. Granted. Aquliani is certainly not an improvement on Alsono until proven otherwise, and most likely never. Silva is not an improvement on Riera as (1) he is not a genuine winger and is replacing the only one we have at the club & (2) he's not even as good as Riera, full stop.

Alonso Masch
Kuyt Gerrard Riera
Torres

is better than

Aquilani Masch
Kuyt Gerrard Silva
Torres

because it's proven.

So, granted, Johnson is great but, 60 mil down the track, we have a better right back. Whoop de fuckin do.
 
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=35290.msg927188#msg927188 date=1250606584]
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=35290.msg927186#msg927186 date=1250606232]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=35290.msg927180#msg927180 date=1250605790]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35290.msg926942#msg926942 date=1250583972]
If Riera was fit and wanting to play, someone wants fucking

regards
[/quote]

I'd agree with that 100%. If Riera was fit and ready, why suffer Babel?

This thread has depressed me.

Between Johnson 18M, Aquilani 20M and Silva 20+M we could end up sending 60M this summer and not really improving the team.


[/quote]

If you don't think Johnson and Silva would be improvements then your silly. Johnson will prove a great signing, and Silva would be like an even better version of Benayoun. Aqualiani for Alonso is debatable. Clearly most of us would rather have kept Alonso, however if Aqua can get fit, stay fit, he might even end up being an improvement too.
[/quote]

I'm not silly. I'm remarkably astute.

Johnson is an improvement on Arbeloa. Granted. Aquliani is certainly not an improvement on Alsono until proven otherwise, and most likely never. Silva is not an improvement on Riera as (1) he is not a genuine winger and is replacing the only one we have at the club & (2) he's not even as good as Riera, full stop.

  Alonso Masch
Kuyt Gerrard Riera
      Torres

is better than

  Aquilani Masch
Kuyt Gerrard Silva
      Torres

because it's proven.

So, granted, Johnson is great but, 60 mil down the track, we have a better right back. Whoop de fuckin do.





[/quote]

But we don't play with genuine wingers, not since Rafa's gone 4-2-3-1 anyway. Instead we have flexible, attacking midfielders who take up good positions between the lines and have the ability to go either way, with the emphasis on the fullbacks providing the width.

I think Riera's done a good job at filling in last year, and I like him as a player, but Silva possesses more quality and is better suited to the system.

As for whether we've improved or not, I think the best we can hope for is we've done is stayed the same; providing we get luck with injuries this should be enough to present a decent title challenge and hopefully bring the title home in May.
 
where is all this talk of silva coming from? can someone post ONE credible link. Personally I think if riera is pushed out the door he replaced with a defender. betcha.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35290.msg927211#msg927211 date=1250607684]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=35290.msg927188#msg927188 date=1250606584]
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=35290.msg927186#msg927186 date=1250606232]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=35290.msg927180#msg927180 date=1250605790]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35290.msg926942#msg926942 date=1250583972]
If Riera was fit and wanting to play, someone wants fucking

regards
[/quote]

I'd agree with that 100%. If Riera was fit and ready, why suffer Babel?

This thread has depressed me.

Between Johnson 18M, Aquilani 20M and Silva 20+M we could end up sending 60M this summer and not really improving the team.


[/quote]

If you don't think Johnson and Silva would be improvements then your silly. Johnson will prove a great signing, and Silva would be like an even better version of Benayoun. Aqualiani for Alonso is debatable. Clearly most of us would rather have kept Alonso, however if Aqua can get fit, stay fit, he might even end up being an improvement too.
[/quote]

I'm not silly. I'm remarkably astute.

Johnson is an improvement on Arbeloa. Granted. Aquliani is certainly not an improvement on Alsono until proven otherwise, and most likely never. Silva is not an improvement on Riera as (1) he is not a genuine winger and is replacing the only one we have at the club & (2) he's not even as good as Riera, full stop.

Alonso Masch
Kuyt Gerrard Riera
Torres

is better than

Aquilani Masch
Kuyt Gerrard Silva
Torres

because it's proven.

So, granted, Johnson is great but, 60 mil down the track, we have a better right back. Whoop de fuckin do.





[/quote]

But we don't play with genuine wingers, not since Rafa's gone 4-2-3-1 anyway. Instead we have flexible, attacking midfielders who take up good positions between the lines and have the ability to go either way, with the emphasis on the fullbacks providing the width.

I think Riera's done a good job at filling in last year, and I like him as a player, but Silva possesses more quality and is better suited to the system.

As for whether we've improved or not, I think the best we can hope for is we've done is stayed the same; providing we get luck with injuries this should be enough to present a decent title challenge and hopefully bring the title home in May.
[/quote]

1. "I think Riera's done a good job at filling in last year, and I like him as a player, but Silva possesses more quality and is better suited to the system."

No offence but how do you justify that?

2. "As for whether we've improved or not, I think the best we can hope for is we've done is stayed the same".

We'll have spent 60 million.
 
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