Ratings.

[mark1975]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39209.msg1065918#msg1065918 date=1268086195]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39209.msg1065886#msg1065886 date=1268085759]


That was about it, one flurry from Babel before turning to shite
[/quote]

Another shot at Babel. Excellent. I mean, most players including your favorite like Crouch, would turn a game around in 7 minutes when everyone is playing shit. I wonder what it's like playing for a manager who you know has no faith in you no matter what you do. He could score a hat trick vs Manure, and he'd be cursed by half the forum for not chasing one ball down and dropped by Rafa the next game.
[/quote]

He hasn't scored a hatrick against Man Ure though, even though I guess your alluding to his saving grace goal from last season. And for the record, I thought it was a disgrace that Rafa dropped him against Blackburn, as I said in the match thread.

Anyway, I just thought he managed to sum himself up in a whole 7 minutes (or however long). Came on, looked bright with one good run, then went brainless again, and almost cost us another goal because of it.

Maybe it's not the best conditions to judge him, but then again, we're looking at players to come off the bench determined to make up for the shite their team mates are producing, do we often get that with Babel? Nope.

Funny you mentioned Crouch, if Babel could show half the determination the big man showed from the bench last week for England, he'd be laughing.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

If Babel had been given 19 games in a row to start, we may also be laughing mate ...

 

[Y1]

[quote author=DHSC link=topic=39209.msg1066337#msg1066337 date=1268117510]
I was actually thinking if I should get up to watch but decided against it.

Good decision in the end, I guess.
[/quote]

Luckily I didnt bother to wake up to watch. I stopped bothering a while ago already.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39209.msg1066365#msg1066365 date=1268123117]
If Babel had been given 19 games in a row to start, we may also be laughing mate ...
[/quote]

Do we have to do this again? Was Crouch shite for those 19 games?

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39209.msg1066367#msg1066367 date=1268123321]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39209.msg1066365#msg1066365 date=1268123117]
If Babel had been given 19 games in a row to start, we may also be laughing mate ...
[/quote]

Do we have to do this again? Was Crouch shite for those 19 games?
[/quote]

I tend to judge my strikers on goals, especially during a stretch as long as that. So 0 goals in 19 games to me says enough. That he turned it around is a testament to his mental toughness and 'never quit' attitude. All our squad could use a bit of that now as yesterday was shambolic because bar one or two players, no one seemed to really care.

Oh well, one day we'll all be happy again wrt Liverpool ... I just wonder when it will be a 'Liverpool win the league' happiness

 

[mark1975]

Anyway, looking at them both in an environment that isn't tarnished by Benitez, at International level Crouch still does it and Babel mostly flatters to deceive. So..

Or is Crouch's goalscoring record for England a result of being played for Liverpool for 19 games without scoring, a few years ago?

I backed Babel after his display in Europe and I backed him to start against Blackburn and was fucked off with Benitez when he didn't, he gets credit when it's due. As soon as he gets a shoeing though the same posters go on the defensive.

I'm not slating him for not scoring when he came on, it was a shite game and we were playing terrible (infact we weren't even playing) and he had 7 minutes to make a difference, but his tendency to be a bit brainless almost cost us a goal.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Crouch has a tremendous int'l record (most of his goals are against dross but who gives a shit, a goal is a goal).

Babel hasn't really figured in the int'l set up in the past year it seems - he will once he leaves Liverpool and plays regularly again. I wonder if a manager like Houllier would have bought out the best in him. Let's be honest, Rafa has a pathetic record with coaching 'kids'.

I didn't go on the defensive, I just thought you could have had a go at every player before Babel - he was on the pitch the least and at least tried. So he had one bad pass, Carra didn't? Mr. Kuyt didn't give away the points with his pass? It's easy to pick on Babel, and almost all the time he deserves it - but yesterday was not one of those times I think.

(infact we weren't even playing) and he had 7 minutes to make a difference, but his tendency to be a bit brainless almost cost us a goal.

I think that's the best I've seen anyone describe our performance yesterday.

 

[Farkmaster]

I mean, who cares really, but Lucas' ratings in this thread are just singling out the normal whipping boy. He didn't play the same role as Aquilani, and in the role he was clearly asked to play, he did his job, and the same can't be said of most other players.

I'll go for:

Reina 7
Mascher 5
Carra 4
Kyrgia 6
Insua 1
Maxi 4
Lucas 5
Gerrard 3
Benayoun 3
Kuyt 2
Torres 3

 

[Y1]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39209.msg1066421#msg1066421 date=1268129013]
I mean, who cares really, but Lucas' ratings in this thread are just singling out the normal whipping boy. He didn't play the same role as Aquilani, and in the role he was clearly asked to play, he did his job, and the same can't be said of most other players.
[/quote]

Happy Birthday FM, not a good day for celebrations I'm afraid.

 

[manwithnoname]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39209.msg1066421#msg1066421 date=1268129013]
I mean, who cares really, but Lucas' ratings in this thread are just singling out the normal whipping boy. He didn't play the same role as Aquilani, and in the role he was clearly asked to play, he did his job, and the same can't be said of most other players.
[/quote]

I'm sick of this. Did his job? What the fuck was that exactly? If he's "doing his job" he must have the least-demanding job in the entire team. What is it exactly?

Don't create anything
Give away stupid fouls
Never score
Never assist
Always look for an easy pass sideways, or slow hospital pass into no man's land
Always rely on everyone else to try and take the game by the scruff of the neck
Don't impose yourself ever.

Another good game and job done once more for our Mediocre Midfield Marvel.

 

[the_khl]

Anyone who rates Gerrard over Lucas in this particular game hasn't got a clue.

Lucas actually managed to get most of his passes right without impressing at all mind, but he did his job more or less, which is something that can't be said about Gerrard at all.

Who's by the way also our captain and has been one of the best players in the world for the past five years.

He was diabolical and that's probably the first time ever I've described one of my all-time favourite footballers that way. But he was.

Reina - 7

Masher - 7
Carra - 3
Kyrgiakos - 5
Insua - 2

Maxi - 6
Lucas - 5
Gerrard - 2
Yossi - 4

Kuyt - 2
Torres - 4

 

[Farkmaster]

Look, I essentially agree with you Brendan, and have said so on numerous occasions, however in this particular match, he:

1) Passed better than Gerrard, including forward, including actually starting some attacks
2) Tackled better than anyone else in our midfield
3) Was clearly told to babysit Insua, and when he did he won the ball most times, which Insua was clearly not capable of.

Gerrard was far more wasteful and lazy than Lucas, and Lucas had an OK game. I'm capable of seeing that, whereas you aren't. Note that I scored Lucas' fairly pedestrian, disciplined, but at least willing performance, a 5 out of 10! It's hardly singing his praises. It's more a condemnation of the rest of the team that that was one of the best performances, but it was.

 

[Peatcheo]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39209.msg1066428#msg1066428 date=1268129569]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39209.msg1066421#msg1066421 date=1268129013]
I mean, who cares really, but Lucas' ratings in this thread are just singling out the normal whipping boy. He didn't play the same role as Aquilani, and in the role he was clearly asked to play, he did his job, and the same can't be said of most other players.
[/quote]

I'm sick of this. Did his job? What the fuck was that exactly? If he's "doing his job" he must have the least-demanding job in the entire team. What is it exactly?

Don't create anything
Give away stupid fouls
Never score
Never assist
Always look for an easy pass sideways, or slow hospital pass into no man's land
Always rely on everyone else to try and take the game by the scruff of the neck
Don't impose yourself ever.

Another good game and job done once more for our Mediocre Midfield Marvel.


[/quote]

This post sums up why i detest him.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39209.msg1065862#msg1065862 date=1268085425]
Fucking shite the lot of them apart from Mascher and Aquilani.
[/quote]

I think I'd add Maxi to that. He at least remained positive and tried to move the ball quickly. If he had anything to work with around him then I think it might have been better rewarded.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39209.msg1066445#msg1066445 date=1268130393]
Look, I essentially agree with you Brendan, and have said so on numerous occasions, however in this particular match, he:

1) Passed better than Gerrard, including forward, including actually starting some attacks
2) Tackled better than anyone else in our midfield
3) Was clearly told to babysit Insua, and when he did he won the ball most times, which Insua was clearly not capable of.

Gerrard was far more wasteful and lazy than Lucas, and Lucas had an OK game. I'm capable of seeing that, whereas you aren't. Note that I scored Lucas' fairly pedestrian, disciplined, but at least willing performance, a 5 out of 10! It's hardly singing his praises. It's more a condemnation of the rest of the team that that was one of the best performances, but it was.
[/quote]

Yeah, I'd agree with that.

I think any vitriol towards Lucas should be redirected towards the manager. He is fairly consistent at what he does (which is by no means a compliment) so is obviously being picked for a reason. One can only assume that the manager is happy with what he brings to the team. It's really not his fault that his game is so limited or that he continues to be picked for a position previously occupied by the vastly superior Alonso. When it boils down to it, either Lucas is the best available in his position (which is unacceptable), or he is being wrongly picked ahead of the £20m Aquilani (which is equally unacceptable). Either way it's the manager who is at fault, not Lucas.

One thing I would say that I think Brendan picked up on, is that the team is playing shit at the moment, despite our recent run of 'form' (read not losing as many), so it's very difficult to argue that it's the wrong time to try something different. The problem is, Rafa has built a rod for his own back. He has excluded Aquilani on the grounds that he'd be too much of a passenger, all the while hoping that the more 'dependable' option of Lucas would see us turn things around. That hasn't happened (surprise surprise) so all that's really happened is that Aquilani has been denied the opportunity to develop and perhaps begin to justify his price tag. Perhaps the approach is designed to introduce Aquilani gently, y'know, let him feel his way into the team. Of course the irony of that is the only opportunities he gets are when Benitez is absolutely desperate in the latter stages of a game, and there's all sorts of pressure to perform. This seems to be rather indicative of Benitez's approach to adversity - the deeper we go into the mire, the more cautious we become, even when it appears we have nothing to lose. He only really makes positive (attacking) changes to the team is when we're chasing a game.

As for Lucas, well, he will never be good enough to hold down a starting berth in a Liverpool team (unless we continue our decline to mid-table mediocrity) and while I do find it tiresome that he attracts so much attention and derision after performances like last night (when he was by no means the worst culprit), he is a fundamentally limited footballer and does not offer enough for the position he plays. But he's not alone there. And like I said before - it's not his fault, is it?

 

[iseered]

Fark and khl are correct. Lucas was as predictably average as ever, but yesterday that made him one our least horrible players on the pitch.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39209.msg1065907#msg1065907 date=1268086033]
Reina - 6
Masher - 6 - 2 points for actually giving a shit. If I were you kid, leave in the summer. You deserve better.
Kyrgriakos - 4
Carra - 4
Insua - 3 - He's really gone backwards this season. He shouldn't be anywhere near the 1st team next year
Lucas - 2 - Pathetic performance. I really would rather see Aqua play - at least he needs to prove something. Lucas is already a guaranteed starter because 'Rafa trusts him'.
Gerrard - 4 - extremely disappointed. You lead by example. If this was a war, Gerrard's troops would have fought like the Froggies.
Maxi - 4 - not the right time to judge a new signing considering how poor we are but poor.
Yossi - 4 - Easy Easy logic for Rafa. Yossi on left = SHIT. Yossi in middle = good. Yossi on right = good.
Kuyt - 1 - Horrendous. He shows up for all big games as per Ryan. I guess now that our season is over we won't be seeing any good performances from him.
Torres - 4 - Rusty. Poor lad, if Barca came in for him this summer and I was him, I'd leave.

Subs:
Johnson - 5 - did nothing wrong
Aqua - 5 - Nice to see someone who wants to pass - pity no one wants to return the favor for '1-2s'
Babel - 4 - I feel bad for this kid. Like Aqua, he's in the "Rafa won't start me two games in a row no matter what I do" Club. If Rafa stays next year, he should leave. For his own sake.

Benitez - 1 - Please leave. Please.
[/quote]

Johnson - 5 - did nothing wrong?

He did nothing right either!!!

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=39209.msg1066545#msg1066545 date=1268139708]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39209.msg1065907#msg1065907 date=1268086033]
Reina - 6
Masher - 6 - 2 points for actually giving a shit. If I were you kid, leave in the summer. You deserve better.
Kyrgriakos - 4
Carra - 4
Insua - 3 - He's really gone backwards this season. He shouldn't be anywhere near the 1st team next year
Lucas - 2 - Pathetic performance. I really would rather see Aqua play - at least he needs to prove something. Lucas is already a guaranteed starter because 'Rafa trusts him'.
Gerrard - 4 - extremely disappointed. You lead by example. If this was a war, Gerrard's troops would have fought like the Froggies.
Maxi - 4 - not the right time to judge a new signing considering how poor we are but poor.
Yossi - 4 - Easy Easy logic for Rafa. Yossi on left = SHIT. Yossi in middle = good. Yossi on right = good.
Kuyt - 1 - Horrendous. He shows up for all big games as per Ryan. I guess now that our season is over we won't be seeing any good performances from him.
Torres - 4 - Rusty. Poor lad, if Barca came in for him this summer and I was him, I'd leave.

Subs:
Johnson - 5 - did nothing wrong
Aqua - 5 - Nice to see someone who wants to pass - pity no one wants to return the favor for '1-2s'
Babel - 4 - I feel bad for this kid. Like Aqua, he's in the "Rafa won't start me two games in a row no matter what I do" Club. If Rafa stays next year, he should leave. For his own sake.

Benitez - 1 - Please leave. Please.
[/quote]

Johnson - 5 - did nothing wrong?

He did nothing right either!!!
[/quote]

Except for an excellent challenge that prevented Wigan from scoring a second goal. Besides, he was returning from injury and is thus exempt from criticism at this stage IMO.

Give it a couple of games and then we can really get stuck into him!