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Henry Speaks to RAWK

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[quote author=localny link=topic=42483.msg1208152#msg1208152 date=1288442747]
Lads, isn't this thread about Henry, not Roffa?

If you factor in the last two years, the difference between what Rafa Spent and recouped is negligible, from a business sense. DOn't have numbers in front me, but will find. Essentially, he was pretty great at getting money back on players.
[/quote]

If a player doesn't succeed at Liverpool then he was a waste of time, money and effort.

That's all there is to it.

Clinging onto recouped fees is a waste of everyones time.
 
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=42483.msg1208227#msg1208227 date=1288448115]
Rosco, what about the debt that almost sank us? There are 2 sides to the story and your crumbling defence of them is ridiculous.

I don't think for a minute that even you believe that G&H enhanced our reputation. Their legacy took us to the brink.

THAT'S A FACT!
[/quote]

Ross isn't defending them. He's just pointing out the the flaws in lazy terminology such as 'bleeding the club dry', which is different from lacking personal wealth.

You should realise this before making your next post.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42483.msg1208234#msg1208234 date=1288448580]
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=42483.msg1208227#msg1208227 date=1288448115]
Rosco, what about the debt that almost sank us? There are 2 sides to the story and your crumbling defence of them is ridiculous.

I don't think for a minute that even you believe that G&H enhanced our reputation. Their legacy took us to the brink.

THAT'S A FACT!
[/quote]

Ross isn't defending them. He's just pointing out the the flaws in lazy terminology such as 'bleeding the club dry', which is different from lacking personal wealth.

You should realise this before making your next post.
[/quote]

For one so young you aren't half a patronising fucker.
 
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=42483.msg1208227#msg1208227 date=1288448115]
Rosco, what about the debt that almost sank us? There are 2 sides to the story and your crumbling defence of them is ridiculous.

I don't think for a minute that even you believe that G&H enhanced our reputation. Their legacy took us to the brink.

THAT'S A FACT!
[/quote]

Reputations and Legacies are irrelevant, the discussion started with us being bled dry by the Yanks, which is the rhetoric adopted by SOS, based on statements made by Benitez.

Now if you were to find evidence of them bleeding us dry it would be in the accounts. The shame here is, that evidence doesn't actually exist so we're left to revisit the situation and realise that if our spending wasn't actually affected by the interest payments because the Yanks covered them, what excuses does everyone's favourite manager have left ?
 
Hey, Spoin, if you don't like being told what to do in bed then I apologise, but you seemed to enjoy it at time.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42483.msg1208232#msg1208232 date=1288448401]
[quote author=localny link=topic=42483.msg1208152#msg1208152 date=1288442747]
Lads, isn't this thread about Henry, not Roffa?

If you factor in the last two years, the difference between what Rafa Spent and recouped is negligible, from a business sense. DOn't have numbers in front me, but will find. Essentially, he was pretty great at getting money back on players.
[/quote]

If a player doesn't succeed at Liverpool then he was a waste of time, money and effort.

That's all there is to it.

Clinging onto recouped fees is a waste of everyones time.
[/quote]


look, it's perfectly simple: nobody's saying that money recouped is the main measurement of a transfer's success or that it excuses a bad transfer, the point you and various others miss - or more kindly, choose to ignore - is that a £20m transfer that recoups £15m is better than a £20m transfer that recoups £5m.

that seems so incredibly, blindingly, obvious, that i'm surprised i have to point it out at all, let alone repeatedly and unsuccessfully, head against brick wall style.
 
Of course - but as Henry said recently: it's not about turning profits, it's about winning. To achieve this you have to be smart with your money, and too often we haven't been.
 
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=42483.msg1208247#msg1208247 date=1288449027]
Stadium plans totalling £37M. That needs looking into.


[/quote]

What do you mean, Livvy?
 
Yeah, even taking into account the 2nd take of the design, what did they do, fly a whole fucking firm over on Concorde and put them up in the citys most expensive hotel?
 
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=42483.msg1208247#msg1208247 date=1288449027]
Stadium plans totalling £37M. That needs looking into.


[/quote]

If we presume they never get used then it was a waste of money, so let's lump it in with the interest then and say it was for G&H's benefit. 148m compared to the 144m they put in. 4m.

So they "bled the club dry" of less than what Benitez got as a payoff ?
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42483.msg1208249#msg1208249 date=1288449107]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=42483.msg1208247#msg1208247 date=1288449027]
Stadium plans totalling £37M. That needs looking into.


[/quote]

What do you mean, Livvy?

[/quote]

I'm no expert in stadium design, nor in their costs, but £37m does seem a tad excessive for a stadium that doesn't exist. I'd like to see a breakdown to see where the money was spent. Wasn't the original 'Parry Bowl' going to cost only £80m to build?
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42483.msg1208255#msg1208255 date=1288449336]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=42483.msg1208247#msg1208247 date=1288449027]
Stadium plans totalling £37M. That needs looking into.


[/quote]

If we presume they never get used then it was a waste of money, so let's lump it in with the interest then and say it was for G&H's benefit. 148m compared to the 144m they put in. 4m.

So they "bled the club dry" of less than what Benitez got as a payoff ?


[/quote]]

Rosco, the club was bled dry from the interest payments. Why were we borrowing money in the first place ? Don't even have a new ground to show for it.
 
[quote author=inijjer link=topic=42483.msg1208269#msg1208269 date=1288449845]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42483.msg1208255#msg1208255 date=1288449336]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=42483.msg1208247#msg1208247 date=1288449027]
Stadium plans totalling £37M. That needs looking into.


[/quote]

If we presume they never get used then it was a waste of money, so let's lump it in with the interest then and say it was for G&H's benefit. 148m compared to the 144m they put in. 4m.

So they "bled the club dry" of less than what Benitez got as a payoff ?


[/quote]]

Rosco, the club was bled dry from the interest payments. Why were we borrowing money in the first place ? Don't even have a new ground to show for it.
[/quote]

The club was reimbursed by G&H for the interest payments.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42483.msg1208255#msg1208255 date=1288449336]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=42483.msg1208247#msg1208247 date=1288449027]
Stadium plans totalling £37M. That needs looking into.


[/quote]

If we presume they never get used then it was a waste of money, so let's lump it in with the interest then and say it was for G&H's benefit. 148m compared to the 144m they put in. 4m.

So they "bled the club dry" of less than what Benitez got as a payoff ?


[/quote]


just to check, are all the various bank fees included in the £111m? i presume they are, but tbh even allowing for the pretty heavy backing they gave benitez in the first season, i still think money must have been disappearing somewhere. virtually nothing spent in the market since mascherano, and much-increased commercial income aganst one big splurge early on...seems without poring over the figures that in general our means were reduced during their time in charge, but i suppose it's possible they weren't. tbf, we were pretty skint right from the start under rafa: fairly small outlay in 05 - almost certainly less than CL win generated - and then moores had to lend the club the kuyt money.

i remember thinking at the time that under houllier the club went on a real spending binge - what we spent in 99-00 with no CL money was pretty incredible - and that that was our big effort at the league title, and i still think i was right. benitez was always dealing to some extent with the fallout from that.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42483.msg1208255#msg1208255 date=1288449336]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=42483.msg1208247#msg1208247 date=1288449027]
Stadium plans totalling £37M. That needs looking into.


[/quote]

If we presume they never get used then it was a waste of money, so let's lump it in with the interest then and say it was for G&H's benefit. 148m compared to the 144m they put in. 4m.

So they "bled the club dry" of less than what Benitez got as a payoff ?


[/quote]

I've never said they 'bled the club dry' I don't believe they did.
 
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=42483.msg1208256#msg1208256 date=1288449348]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42483.msg1208249#msg1208249 date=1288449107]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=42483.msg1208247#msg1208247 date=1288449027]
Stadium plans totalling £37M. That needs looking into.


[/quote]

What do you mean, Livvy?

[/quote]

I'm no expert in stadium design, nor in their costs, but £37m does seem a tad excessive for a stadium that doesn't exist. I'd like to see a breakdown to see where the money was spent. Wasn't the original 'Parry Bowl' going to cost only £80m to build?
[/quote]

Yeah, I think Henry seems aghast at the expense by the above quotes. There was a subsequent redesign for a cheaper option, but even so it's seems a crazy sum. We could have had another Keane and Aquilani for that.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42483.msg1208271#msg1208271 date=1288450007]
[quote author=inijjer link=topic=42483.msg1208269#msg1208269 date=1288449845]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42483.msg1208255#msg1208255 date=1288449336]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=42483.msg1208247#msg1208247 date=1288449027]
Stadium plans totalling £37M. That needs looking into.


[/quote]

If we presume they never get used then it was a waste of money, so let's lump it in with the interest then and say it was for G&H's benefit. 148m compared to the 144m they put in. 4m.

So they "bled the club dry" of less than what Benitez got as a payoff ?


[/quote]]

Rosco, the club was bled dry from the interest payments. Why were we borrowing money in the first place ? Don't even have a new ground to show for it.
[/quote]

The club was reimbursed by G&H for the interest payments.
[/quote]

Do you mean by the payment that was made by the new owners ? If so, then that's some funked up accounting that you're attempting.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42483.msg1208277#msg1208277 date=1288450087]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=42483.msg1208256#msg1208256 date=1288449348]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42483.msg1208249#msg1208249 date=1288449107]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=42483.msg1208247#msg1208247 date=1288449027]
Stadium plans totalling £37M. That needs looking into.


[/quote]

What do you mean, Livvy?

[/quote]

I'm no expert in stadium design, nor in their costs, but £37m does seem a tad excessive for a stadium that doesn't exist. I'd like to see a breakdown to see where the money was spent. Wasn't the original 'Parry Bowl' going to cost only £80m to build?
[/quote]

Yeah, I think Henry seems aghast at the expense by the above quotes. There was a subsequent redesign for a cheaper option, but even so it's seems a crazy sum. We could have had another Keane and Aquilani for that.
[/quote]

Or Torres and Mascherano. 😉
 
people can defend G&H all they like but the bottom line is there is no stadium, the purchase of the club was loaded back onto the club and investment into the playing staff was done via loans that ultimately the club was responsible for, so what was the fucking point of them (G&H)?
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42483.msg1208272#msg1208272 date=1288450015]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42483.msg1208255#msg1208255 date=1288449336]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=42483.msg1208247#msg1208247 date=1288449027]
Stadium plans totalling £37M. That needs looking into.


[/quote]

If we presume they never get used then it was a waste of money, so let's lump it in with the interest then and say it was for G&H's benefit. 148m compared to the 144m they put in. 4m.

So they "bled the club dry" of less than what Benitez got as a payoff ?


[/quote]


just to check, are all the various bank fees included in the £111m? i presume they are, but tbh even allowing for the pretty heavy backing they gave benitez in the first season, i still think money must have been disappearing somewhere. virtually nothing spent in the market since mascherano, and much-increased commercial income aganst one big splurge early on...seems without poring over the figures that in general our means were reduced during their time in charge, but i suppose it's possible they weren't. tbf, we were pretty skint right from the start under rafa: fairly small outlay in 05 - almost certainly less than CL win generated - and then moores had to lend the club the kuyt money.

i remember thinking at the time that under houllier the club went on a real spending binge - what we spent in 99-00 with no CL money was pretty incredible - and that that was our big effort at the league title, and i still think i was right. benitez was always dealing to some extent with the fallout from that.
[/quote]

We've never had huge money. The decrease in transfer funds perfectly coincides with the wage bill rocketing from 65m to 107m. As the wage bill increased our transfer funds dried up.

And as for being skint - well it's all relative - Rafa spent more than everyone bar Chelsea and City.

Essentially I think Rafa lied to us for years. Just like the owners. I want SOS to moan about that for a while.
 
[quote author=inijjer link=topic=42483.msg1208278#msg1208278 date=1288450134]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42483.msg1208271#msg1208271 date=1288450007]
[quote author=inijjer link=topic=42483.msg1208269#msg1208269 date=1288449845]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42483.msg1208255#msg1208255 date=1288449336]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=42483.msg1208247#msg1208247 date=1288449027]
Stadium plans totalling £37M. That needs looking into.


[/quote]

If we presume they never get used then it was a waste of money, so let's lump it in with the interest then and say it was for G&H's benefit. 148m compared to the 144m they put in. 4m.

So they "bled the club dry" of less than what Benitez got as a payoff ?


[/quote]]

Rosco, the club was bled dry from the interest payments. Why were we borrowing money in the first place ? Don't even have a new ground to show for it.
[/quote]

The club was reimbursed by G&H for the interest payments.
[/quote]

Do you mean by the payment that was made by the new owners ? If so, then that's some funked up accounting that you're attempting.
[/quote]

No. G&H paid it. They put 144m into the club which they aren't getting back.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42483.msg1208286#msg1208286 date=1288450487]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42483.msg1208272#msg1208272 date=1288450015]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42483.msg1208255#msg1208255 date=1288449336]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=42483.msg1208247#msg1208247 date=1288449027]
Stadium plans totalling £37M. That needs looking into.


[/quote]

If we presume they never get used then it was a waste of money, so let's lump it in with the interest then and say it was for G&H's benefit. 148m compared to the 144m they put in. 4m.

So they "bled the club dry" of less than what Benitez got as a payoff ?


[/quote]


just to check, are all the various bank fees included in the £111m? i presume they are, but tbh even allowing for the pretty heavy backing they gave benitez in the first season, i still think money must have been disappearing somewhere. virtually nothing spent in the market since mascherano, and much-increased commercial income aganst one big splurge early on...seems without poring over the figures that in general our means were reduced during their time in charge, but i suppose it's possible they weren't. tbf, we were pretty skint right from the start under rafa: fairly small outlay in 05 - almost certainly less than CL win generated - and then moores had to lend the club the kuyt money.

i remember thinking at the time that under houllier the club went on a real spending binge - what we spent in 99-00 with no CL money was pretty incredible - and that that was our big effort at the league title, and i still think i was right. benitez was always dealing to some extent with the fallout from that.
[/quote]

We've never had huge money. The decrease in transfer funds perfectly coincides with the wage bill rocketing from 65m to 107m. As the wage bill increased our transfer funds dried up.

And as for being skint - well it's all relative - Rafa spent more than everyone bar Chelsea and City.

Essentially I think Rafa lied to us for years. Just like the owners. I want SOS to moan about that for a while.
[/quote]

You seen this site rosco? http://www.transferleague.co.uk/

I don't know how reliable it is
 
ok, i've checked the figures. during benitez's and hodgson's time:

pre H&G net transfer spending excluding £9m on kuyt and £14m on cisse = £12.4m a year

during H&G = £7.45m a year


so a significant reduction in support, even before taking into account large increases in TV revenue and commercial income. there must be more to it than rosco's suggesting.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42483.msg1208292#msg1208292 date=1288450855]
ok, i've checked the figures. during benitez's and hodgson's time:

pre H&G net transfer spending excluding £9m on kuyt and £14m on cisse = £12.4m a year

during H&G = £7.45m a year


so a significant reduction in support, even before taking into account large increases in TV revenue and commercial income. there must be more to it than rosco's suggesting.
[/quote]

You're an accountant, have a look at the accounts yourself. It's all there.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42483.msg1208286#msg1208286 date=1288450487]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42483.msg1208272#msg1208272 date=1288450015]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42483.msg1208255#msg1208255 date=1288449336]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=42483.msg1208247#msg1208247 date=1288449027]
Stadium plans totalling £37M. That needs looking into.


[/quote]

If we presume they never get used then it was a waste of money, so let's lump it in with the interest then and say it was for G&H's benefit. 148m compared to the 144m they put in. 4m.

So they "bled the club dry" of less than what Benitez got as a payoff ?


[/quote]


just to check, are all the various bank fees included in the £111m? i presume they are, but tbh even allowing for the pretty heavy backing they gave benitez in the first season, i still think money must have been disappearing somewhere. virtually nothing spent in the market since mascherano, and much-increased commercial income aganst one big splurge early on...seems without poring over the figures that in general our means were reduced during their time in charge, but i suppose it's possible they weren't. tbf, we were pretty skint right from the start under rafa: fairly small outlay in 05 - almost certainly less than CL win generated - and then moores had to lend the club the kuyt money.

i remember thinking at the time that under houllier the club went on a real spending binge - what we spent in 99-00 with no CL money was pretty incredible - and that that was our big effort at the league title, and i still think i was right. benitez was always dealing to some extent with the fallout from that.
[/quote]

We've never had huge money. The decrease in transfer funds perfectly coincides with the wage bill rocketing from 65m to 107m. As the wage bill increased our transfer funds dried up.

And as for being skint - well it's all relative - Rafa spent more than everyone bar Chelsea and City.

Essentially I think Rafa lied to us for years. Just like the owners. I want SOS to moan about that for a while.
[/quote]


surely the wage bill increase (when exactly did it take place?) coincides with the massive increases in tv revenue?



[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42483.msg1208293#msg1208293 date=1288450946]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42483.msg1208292#msg1208292 date=1288450855]
ok, i've checked the figures. during benitez's and hodgson's time:

pre H&G net transfer spending excluding £9m on kuyt and £14m on cisse = £12.4m a year

during H&G = £7.45m a year


so a significant reduction in support, even before taking into account large increases in TV revenue and commercial income. there must be more to it than rosco's suggesting.
[/quote]

You're an accountant, have a look at the accounts yourself. It's all there.
[/quote]


on a weekend? you must be fucking joking!
 
We are 4th highest spenders on that transfer list, it just begs the question, where the hell do Spurs get all there cash from? This is thier first seasson in the CL and they have outspent us since day one of the Premier league!
 
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