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Post Match: Villa Away, unpicking that Shit Show

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Adrian definitely needs the most intensive goalkeeping 101 session before he plays again. He shouldn't ever play for us again, but if he's going to then he needs to have certain basic dos and don'ts drilled into him. He can't kick the ball so that he finds a teammate and keeps the ball in play. He doesn't seem to want to bowl the ball out. He rolls it out to a defender who has two opponents running at him from behind, which Adrian can see but the defender can't. He keeps passing the ball to defenders who have no space to carry the ball forwards. He doesn't seem to take responsibility for organising his defenders at corners. The list goes on and on.
 
On a brighter note, Salah can get his hundred goal for us against the bitters in a faster time than Fowler.


His two finishes yesterday were magic.
 
I'm sort of reassuring myself by remembering that Utd used to take the odd tonking (5-0 at Newcastle) and then go on to win 10 in a row & retain the title.

Please don't disappoint me by pointing out any flaws in the above, my little world is precariously balanced just now.
 
I find it funny that those who were arguing for Adrian are now waking up and smelling the roses. *Smug point off my chest now*

But really, how many times does a GK have to cost us a trophy or a game before we decide he's not good enough?

The man was making at least 1 big mistake a game last year. He was just lucky that they weren't all punished. At least one EVERY game.

I called it out then and was told "he hasn't cost us points yet" or "who else can we get who will be a happy understudy to Alisson?"

Ermm.. how about thousands of GKs who are better than him and would be happy to be number 2 at Liverpool, one of the biggest clubs in the world?

Adrian is simply not good enough for a number 2; at best he's a number 3; he should be a number 2 at a West Ham, not us. One mistake a game is worse than Mignolet who made (one every 5 games and was at least international class). It's time Jurgen stopped trying to think he can coach him into being a good keeper and do what he done with Alli. Just go to the market and get it sorted.

What Liverpool need to do is rotate 2nd GKs every few years, and ensure that the 2nd GK is of international quality/potential. If that GK is restless after a year, then simply loan him out (with the provision he plays) and with the option to recall him and keep an Adrian as a 3rd (substitute) choice. Or you can bring in an experienced GK like a Buffon (a few years ago) who is happy to play cup games or go for a young GK at the age of a Kirkland (when we had Dudek signed at the same time) who is happy to learn at Liverpool for 2-3 years, and move on if he doesn't get enough of a chance within that time. These are are options for a better number 2.

What we can't do is just say "well, he's the best we can get as a 2nd GK" and continue to lose football games without trying to do better.
 
Weird excited energy in here by a few folks. I guess it must be the feelings of vindication against some of the other posters who are relentlessly Rawk-like and unquestioningly positive.

But it’s still weird.
 
The warning sign were there even last season when we were just shading games. And those warning signs persisted, even in per-season and against Leeds...
It was always coming. The only surprise it was Aston Villia, and not City who took us apart
 
Villa were brilliant last night. There's no denying that.

I was always a bit worried about this season due to the drop off we showed after we won the league. It's hard to raise your standards once they've been compromised. We had no issue getting up for it against Arsenal, but we approached this game like the points were in the bag, until they weren't, and then we just gave up. I struggle to remember such a collectively poor performance in my lifetime, frankly. I was pleased with Fabinho, Keita, and Winaldum to perform so well against Arsenal without Henderson on the pitch, but this just shows the dangers that can happen when he doesn't play. They were insipid, lazy, ineffective, toothless. You name it. Completely bossed by Ross Barkley, who lived the debut of wet-dreams, and Mcginn. They should all be embarrassed.

VVD's a bit of a peacock whose grown too used to having his cock sucked. He should have rallied them yesterday. Call a huddle after a goal. fake injury if you have to. We needed a leader on the pitch to step up and he just didn't. The very least you could have expected was a pep talk to Gomez and for he himself to raise his game. We didn't get that either. Would Kompany or John Terry allowed that shitshow to continue around them? Carragher, Gerrard? No chance.

Firmino's fast becoming a passenger. I would drop him until there's a reaction.

Klopp also has to take some accountability. If Alisson is out we adapt our game, move the line back 10 yards. There's playing with risk and then there's suicide. He got it wrong. 10 goals conceded against Villa and Leeds suggests the balance has gone too far. It's time for some reflection and some harsh words.
 
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Good summary. Just to add in respect of Virgil, he's fundamentally a magnificent defender of course but I wasn't convinced the armband suited him even before last night. In addition to the kind of thing you outline above, his own game seems to me to have suffered sometimes when he's skippered the side.
 
I'm sort of reassuring myself by remembering that Utd used to take the odd tonking (5-0 at Newcastle) and then go on to win 10 in a row & retain the title.

Please don't disappoint me by pointing out any flaws in the above, my little world is precariously balanced just now.
Allow me to alleviate some concerns with this little fact.....losing heavily to Aston Villa ensures us of the league title!

We've been mullered 3 times by Villa in my lifetime; 1976 we lost 5-1 (that was also the half time score) but won the league; last season we lost 5-0 to them in the league cup and went on to end our 30 year barren spell and therefore it follows that yesterday's defeat guarantees us the title.....doesn't it?
 
Allow me to alleviate some concerns with this little fact.....losing heavily to Aston Villa ensures us of the league title!

We've been mullered 3 times by Villa in my lifetime; 1976 we lost 5-1 (that was also the half time score) but won the league; last season we lost 5-0 to them in the league cup and went on to end our 30 year barren spell and therefore it follows that yesterday's defeat guarantees us the title.....doesn't it?
That'll do me
 
Are people trying to glean positives from last night?

Shit show from start to finish. Wish we kept karius. Least his proper shit game he had a fucking concussion. Adrian doesn't have the luxury of match obtained brain damage as an excuse.

Midfield was fucking disgraceful. How hard is it to attack? Like, considering keita and wijnaldum are meant to be quite attacking, how the fuck are they so shit at it.

Keita is a statman wet dream. On paper seems to be good, in the flesh is a load of wank.

Bobby needs dunking under the water by alisson again, except this time in a cockney gangsta way, not in a "jesus is my saviour" way. His performances recently have made me want origi to start, and that hurts to say.

All in all, shit show, and if we play like that against Everton, we'll be lucky to score any, let alone 2
 
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When people talk about Firmino being below par recently I cant help wonder who theyve been watching for the last 12 months. Hes been mostly dreadful for the last year. Im not just talking about his finishing either which has always been sub par, but his general attitude seems off. Maybe hes exhausted, carrying a long term injury or hes just not hungry anymore I dont know but as it stands he should be dropped and fast, rewarding that sort of performance by keeping him in the starting XI every week just breeds entitlement and that is contagious.
 
The other thing that struck me about the game was how naive we looked. 5-2 down with 25 mins left, and we were still pushing up as high as possible leaving gaps everywhere, repeatedly falling into the same traps that conceded the first 5 goals just hoping it would get better

I mean did any of the senior players or the manager think, you know what this is turning into a heavy defeat, wed best focus on tightening up at the back and ensuring it doesnt get humiliating.

It was like watching a boxer desperately keep trying to land the same haymaker over and over again only to be viciously countered at each attempt by an opponent who has long since figured it out.
 
two days later and I still can't believe we just got trashed 7-2 by Aston bloody Villa. Of all people.

Well they say pride precedes a downfall. To be fair, we've been strutting like peacocks for a while now.

But still...Aston. Villa.

Attack the title. Lol. Don't forget to defend too yeah.
 
The other thing that struck me about the game was how naive we looked. 5-2 down with 25 mins left, and we were still pushing up as high as possible leaving gaps everywhere, repeatedly falling into the same traps that conceded the first 5 goals just hoping it would get better

I mean did any of the senior players or the manager think, you know what this is turning into a heavy defeat, wed best focus on tightening up at the back and ensuring it doesnt get humiliating.

It was like watching a boxer desperately keep trying to land the same haymaker over and over again only to be viciously countered at each attempt by an opponent who has long since figured it out.
This was the annoying bit. Once the 5th went in, Klopp should have opted to shut shop and avoid the humiliation. There was no chance of salvaging the game then. Yet we continued to stumble on like drunk idiots.
 
I think we can all see we lack leadership on the pitch when Hendos not there.

What's more surprising is that we lack leadership from the bench.

You often see Klopp dishing it out in the normal run of play (which we've hardly lost in the last 2 years)

But when it's going badly (which is rarely) , he's passive. No roastings, no clever tactical shifts. Moreover he often looks bemused. "how can this be happening?" kinda thing.

He's a genius and I love him but I don't get this at all.
 
I think we can all see we lack leadership on the pitch when Hendos not there.

What's more surprising is that we lack leadership from the bench.

You often see Klopp dishing it out in the normal run of play (which we've hardly lost in the last 2 years)

But when it's going badly (which is rarely) , he's passive. No roastings, no clever tactical shifts. Moreover he often looks bemused. "how can this be happening?" kinda thing.

He's a genius and I love him but I don't get this at all.
He does scream at players when they’re not doing what they’re supposed to. You’re asking about Klopp smiling in disbelief after we concede a stupid goal. He also does shift tactics but that tends to be during half time. Probably for good reason.
Thing is, we really didn’t press as a unit against Villa, and that wasn’t tactics, the players were being dickheads.
 
The man was making at least 1 big mistake a game last year. He was just lucky that they weren't all punished. At least one EVERY game.

I called it out then and was told "he hasn't cost us points yet" or "who else can we get who will be a happy understudy to Alisson?"

A lot of what I thought of the performance has been more eloquently posted by others.

The point you made regarding Adrian is something I am absolutely not able to wrap my head around, even a day after the game. We are supposed to have a world-class statistics based performance analysis folks, right? Shouldn't they have warned the team that, we got through with Adrian at the beginning of last season by pure luck, a statistical anomaly?

Why did we spend 1.8 million on a youth team keeper from Brazil when we have such a big drop in quality at number 2? This entire summer article after article on how great our transfer team is (and the praise is well deserved, no doubt about it). How could this team not prioritize such an important position? It just seems like an unnecessary risk to take.

Having said that since the Watford game, we seem to have conceded 2-3 goals in a game, quite a number of times. It points to a deeper issue which a lot of you have commented on. Hopefully, it is fixed by the coaching staff and the players over the break.
 
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It was probably the most strangest game I've ever seen. We started off quite good, and even our reaction to their 1-0 lead and calamity by Adrian was good. But then after 2-0 our defending was all over the place. Adrian was awful, Gomez had probably his worst game of his career and we played, defended and acted like a U-18s team. We should never have let it get that bad. 4-1 was bad enough, but 7-2. That is something that just shouldnt be allowed to happen.
We looked scared and shit ourselves every time they had the ball and attacked us.

Hopefully Klopp will use the time towards the Everton game well and reset the team. Make some tactical adjustments and at least set us up with some more defensive stability in that game. It will help to have Thiago and Mane back obviously.
For the players it might actually be a good thing to play a few international games and then come back again.

Adrian will have to spend the entire time on Melwood kicking the ball out, or finding a teammate.
We cant start with a giveaway goal against Everton aswell, then we can just release him on a free transfer. The calamity dickhead.
 
On the plus side Jota again looked dangerous, I'd be very interested in seeing Mane through the middle with Mo and Jota either side.

Many, many negatives though. Shame we didn't sign Reina as no.2 but it's not just Adrians fault, several shit performances.

Agree with this. I'm a massive Firmino man but he's started the season very poorly.
 
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