Post Match: Villa Away, unpicking that Shit Show

[KopRed]

It’s more like 2 mistakes in every game.

Maybe you are right. The pass to Ings, that pass against Atletico, the pass yesterday, and he wasn't even put under that much pressure. There is a consistent pattern here, he should be binned ASAP.

I read he was at fault for the last goal as well? I turned off the telly at 6-2 or some shit scoreline.

 

[Frogfish]

Good morning reds.
Was it just a dream?

I was just thinking the same. It must have been a nightmare because no way could it have happened in real life. I'll never try those drugs again. Now what was the real scoreline ? Did we win 1-3 as I predicted ?

 

[Shadey]

Maybe you are right. The pass to Ings, that pass against Atletico, the pass yesterday, and he wasn't even put under that much pressure. There is a consistent pattern here, he should be binned ASAP.

I read he was at fault for the last goal as well? I turned off the telly at 6-2 or some shit scoreline.

Halftime for me

 

[tombrown]

Good morning reds.
Was it just a dream?

Bad dream just got worse, when I wake up to the news Ireland about to revert to full lockdown 🙁 Still, I guess the silver lining is Null&Void

 

[MomoWASright]

Klopp seems a bit numb, as most of us were. It was either numb or angry.

Some honest quotes. We did everything bad as possible. We made them make it look easy. Deflection goals are poor blocks so not luck.

The only 2 players he named were Adrian and Salah. He tried to deflect some blame from the former and brushed over the fantastic finishes from the later.

He mentioned the international break and would have wanted sessions today and tomorrow. Probably to shred the players apart.

 

[MomoWASright]

Bad dream just got worse, when I wake up to the news Ireland about to revert to full lockdown 🙁 Still, I guess the silver lining is Null&Void

Null and void would be the most Everton thing ever to happen to Everton. It would be our fault somehow.

 

[tomasjj]

I have harped on about how wasteful I find Salah to be.
Yesterday he was deadly effective - two superb finishes.

 

[MomoWASright]

Salah was fabulous yesterday. The only other positives were Jota and Robbo in the first half.

 

[mark1975]

Seeing as I went to the trouble of writing the reply whilst the match thread got locked:



To an extent we've always kinda walked that tightrope. Think back to all the late goals and shit we pulled to keep on winning.

We are a great team no doubt but we didn't win like City did who beat teams before they even walked onto the pitch. Or a peak Barcelona who talent wise were just on a different planet to most teams they played against.

In no small part it is / was our desire, hunger and a willingness to work harder than anyone else that made us what we are. That and quality in key areas.

Take one or two key pieces of the puzzle out and we don't quite have the same overwhelming talent to fall back on.

But the drop off from being champions to conceding TEN goals between Leeds and Villa is huge and our back up players arent so bad that this is the difference in quality.

Our biggest culprits since the end of last season have been first team regulars who've either got complacent, lazy, arrogant or have just simply declined. VVD, Gomez, Bobby, Robbo and Fabinho have all been guilty. I honestly don't see the attraction with Keita either, he's far too inconsistent.

And I really don't rate Gomez nor his right sided defensive partnership with Trent.

Have teams found us out? All these goals are fairly simple route one goals, but yesterday we made Barkley and co look like Barcelona, Fabinho was useless, so much for having a "proper" DM.

 

[tomasjj]

Salah was fabulous yesterday. The only other positives were Jota and Robbo in the first half.

Yes, I noticed. It is clear how much more the attacks go through our left with Robbo now for some reason.
Trent, who had a mare defensively, has been much more subdued in his offensive involvement so far this season.

Jota looks a player. I like his energy and directness. He will make lots of things happen.

 

[bluebell]

Completely laughable to compare Alisson to Shaq. We need a decent number 2, Klopp and the Board must know that and must react. The Irish GK isn't ready yet.

 

[Woland]

I always said selling Lovren was a mistake

 

[Brizzle]

When we next step on the field we will have our leader back, Mane will join the front line (he should return for Bobby not for Joto in my opinion) and Thiago should be able to get on too - our ability to dictate the game shouldn't be in any doubt.

 

[Best Believe It]

I thought we had eliminated this problem of a lack of leadership within the squad. Van Dijk's head should not be dropping in this situation, and neither should Gini's, as they're supposed to be captains when others aren't available. We shouldn't have to send Milner on to try and calm things down.

I'm aware I'm just parroting what others have said, but there are a few alarming things at the moment - Allisson's injury proneness, Gomez's inconsistency, Firmino's form, Keita and Minamino not really giving huge amounts of confidence they're going to be good enough for us.

 

[carlv]

I don't think we have played well since losing to Watford bar the odd performance. After the suspension period we knew we had won the league so maybe that is understandable but this has now carried over to the new season. It could be down to not having a crowd as the games seem more like glorified training sessions.
Like most managers Klopp has his favourite players, I don't understand why we are still playing Wijnaldum if he won't sign the contract extension he has been offered why does it get in the team ahead of players who want to be here. Trent, Gomez and Firmino have been poor for a while but are still guaranteed starters so have become complacent

Whilst Adrian is a liability and resulted in our being knocked out of both the FA Cup & Champions League last season Alisson was in goal when we conceded 4 against City 3 against Chelsea at the end of last season and 3 against Leeds I think again this shows the complacency that has come in to our performances and it needs to be dealt with.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

We were missing three of our most important players, Allison, Henderson and Mane (not even going to include Thiago). We were unlucky to concede three deflections. We also came up against a team that we probably underestimated. So, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel based on last night.

On the other side, we played really poorly, bar maybe Salah and Jota. And, as others have said, we haven't been great since about March. So we do need something. I reckon we're short a top quality CB, hopefully Jota will perform for us(he provides a different style from what I can see) and will allow us to rotate the front three without a huge dip in quality, and just need to get a couple of those players back playing again, and we'll be well capable of being at least in the top two again.

 

[Brizzle]

At least our rivals (exl. the ev) are all dropping points and looking average too. I think our problems are easiest to solve as it is (hopefully) mostly a mentality and approach problem versus a personnel problem.

 

[mark1975]

We were missing three of our most important players, Allison, Henderson and Mane (not even going to include Thiago). We were unlucky to concede three deflections. We also came up against a team that we probably underestimated. So, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel based on last night.

On the other side, we played really poorly, bar maybe Salah and Jota. And, as others have said, we haven't been great since about March. So we do need something. I reckon we're short a top quality CB, hopefully Jota will perform for us(he provides a different style from what I can see) and will allow us to rotate the front three without a huge dip in quality, and just need to get a couple of those players back playing again, and we'll be well capable of being at least in the top two again.

You can't really pin a huge amount of the game on luck. Even Klopp had the grace to say that even though they were deflected goals, you can argue they were half hearted blocks, and that was the problem. Too tame, too easily picked apart and it seems to be becoming a common trend. No we don't need to reinvent the wheel, but it doesn't feel like a one off and despite the heavy scoreline, the defeat wasn't a surprise. Like I've asked elsewhere, have teams sussed out a way around our set up? It seems like sides are hitting us on the break easily and it seems we struggle with any punt over the top or any long ball down the channels.

Missing three big players doesn't really wash either when we've gone into the season adding more quality to what we already had. By and large it was the same team that wiped the floor with most sides last season. It's inexcusable. Too many players have been lax since we won the title; the tail end of last season, preseason, the Community Shield and the Leeds game all should have had the alarm bells ringing, but too many people seem to relaxed about it, saying that we're missing players, we're being unlucky, we'll start playing when it really matters, etc.

A new season always throws up a few surprises, which is why I was fairly shocked that people just expected us to carry on where we left off, as though the team would retain it's mentality and the opposition would remain the same. It rarely works out like that and there are zero excuses to be found in yesterdays performance. It's one of the worst I've witnessed in 40+ years. Fucking disgraceful.

 

[Brizzle]

In a weird way... this game was a bit of an advert for FFP. Football would arguably be boring if we could have excellent back up in all positions. Our starting GK gets injured and because we have prioritised depth elsewhere we have a sub-par GK. However - it should have been easy for someone on the pitch after we went 1 down to slow the pace down and just say 'we've got this' but we lost our heads and Villa pounced.

The season is going to be entertaining and if we tighten up the chances we concede we are going to score a lot ourselves.

 

[mark1975]

In a weird way... this game was a bit of an advert for FFP. Football would arguably be boring if we could have excellent back up in all positions. Our starting GK gets injured and because we have prioritised depth elsewhere we have a sub-par GK. However - it should have been easy for someone on the pitch after we went 1 down to slow the pace down and just say 'we've got this' but we lost our heads and Villa pounced.

The season is going to be entertaining and if we tighten up the chances we concede we are going to score a lot ourselves.

There just seems a distinct lack of organisation in that axis between keeper, centre halves and DM. Is anyone really playing as a DM? Is Fabinho under par or a victim of our tactics? Because it seems that currently an unnatural DM can do the job with aplomb and a natural one looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights.

We miss Henderson, if only for his enthusiasm, drive and the fact he will bark at players. EVERYONE let their heads drop yesterday bar Salah and Jota (and Milner). That's disgraceful really. There was no fire, no words across the pitch between players, just resignation that we were going to get beat and that's where Villa capitalised.

Fabinho making that gobshite Barkley look like a Galatico was one of the worst things I've seen in years from a Liverpool team.

 

[Gary25]

We were missing three of our most important players, Allison, Henderson and Mane (not even going to include Thiago). We were unlucky to concede three deflections. We also came up against a team that we probably underestimated. So, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel based on last night.

On the other side, we played really poorly, bar maybe Salah and Jota. And, as others have said, we haven't been great since about March. So we do need something. I reckon we're short a top quality CB, hopefully Jota will perform for us(he provides a different style from what I can see) and will allow us to rotate the front three without a huge dip in quality, and just need to get a couple of those players back playing again, and we'll be well capable of being at least in the top two again.

Unlucky??? Come off it, it should've been about 12-2!!

 

[Brizzle]

There just seems a distinct lack of organisation in that axis between keeper, centre halves and DM. Is anyone really playing as a DM? Is Fabinho under par or a victim of our tactics? Because it seems that currently an unnatural DM can do the job with aplomb and a natural one looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights.

We miss Henderson, if only for his enthusiasm, drive and the fact he will bark at players. EVERYONE let their heads drop yesterday bar Salah and Jota (and Milner). That's disgraceful really. There was no fire, no words across the pitch between players, just resignation that we were going to get beat and that's where Villa capitalised.

Fabinho making that gobshite Barkley look like a Galatico was one of the worst things I've seen in years from a Liverpool team.

I thought Jota & Mo were great performances and for me this is a huge positive going forwards. Jota looks the real deal, can't wait to see him terrorising more teams once we get them on the back foot from the start.

 

[mark1975]

I really like the look of him, he's a big plus at the minute, even though obviously we missed Mane, I don't think that was because Jota wasn't an able replacement, he was. The attack were ok in fits and starts and Jota & Salah always looked a threat. It was the midfield, Bobby, Adrian and the defense that may aswell have not bothered turning up. VVD needs to up his game, Gomez needs to start stepping up or we'll be buying a centre half soon.

 

[gkmacca]

You can't rely on a keeper who misses so many games, seemingly every season. It's not as if he's getting injured by getting hammered at corners and one-on-ones. He's getting injured just through basic training, which is a really alarming thing. Sturridge was having his entire character questioned once he started on a similar course. I don't see why a keeper should be any different.

As for the rest of them, I don't know where to start. There's absolutely no excuse for a defeat like that. Firminho needs dropping, you can't just keep being patient because of how he can be when on form. He's out of form, way out of form, and when he's like that we basically just have two wide attacking players who don't quite know where to go.

But forget the 'Oh, it'll be okay once two or three players come back into the side'. A Liverpool team - especially a title-winning Liverpool team - should never be beaten like that, even if you had a couple of sendings off or some other in-game disaster. It just shouldn't happen. It was a stupid performance as well as a poor one, and that isn't solved merely by reshuffling the pack.

 

[mark1975]

The Bobby thing is a strange one to counter. Ideally I'd play Salah in the middle with Mane on the left and Jota on the right. All three are a threat and Salah has the trickery and intelligence to play there. On paper you'd probably opt for Minamino doing that role, but he's way too lightweight and inconsistent at the minute. We just need to win games and while other areas are well out of sorts, I think the attack has enough options about it to get by.

The biggest issue is the Gomez and Adrian one, neither are good enough in this sort of form. The Gomez thing (for me) has been going on since at least early last season, possibly before. He was terrible at right back, always misreading balls over the top and I still think if you isolate him he struggles. Maybe we can attribute VVD's form to not feeling as confident with those around him, but he also looks incredibly lax too. Ideally we'd have a fit Matip and Allison, these are the two areas where we clearly lack sufficient cover, but the cover we do have shouldn't be so awful that we dread contemplating having to use it.

I know it's hard to get a good back up keeper, but come on.. this guy is awful and doesn't replicate Allison's style one bit. We should at least have a keeper who is confident playing out from the back and sweeping.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Unlucky??? Come off it, it should've been about 12-2!!

I didn't mean we were unlucky to lose, but it's unlucky to have three deflections. But, it's a good point that we didn't do a great job of stopping them.

My general point is that personal and tactics don't need an overhaul based on last night, but we definitely need tweaks, and we need our best players to be fit.

 

[Frogfish]

...On the other side, we played really poorly, bar maybe Salah and Jota. And, as others have said, we haven't been great since about March.

I've seen a few people say this but it's not really true is it. For most of the Chelsea and Arsenal PL games we truly were excellent. Even Neville was waxing lyrical going on about how he'd never seen a better team press and dominance. And then Villa happened.

A conflux of circumstances? Adrian (and the clear and absolute lack of confidence the defence had in him after that start - trying to protect him perhaps), Gomez's mare, absences, clear lack of pressing (this one must be on Klopp?), Villa in top form/confidence and with a real plan, overly high line (past the HW line, meaning they couldn't be offside for any ball played over the top) and 3 deflections (yes it means they were attacking but still no-one could have imagined conceding 3 goals from deflections).

The Adrian issue needs sorting, however, unlike some sanctimonious pussies panicking (not referring to you Gerry), I don't believe the team has suddenly just gone to pot and needs dramatic surgery, it'll be back on track sooner rather than later. A cliche perhaps but form is temporary etc.

 

[Gary25]

I didn't mean we were unlucky to lose, but it's unlucky to have three deflections. But, it's a good point that we didn't do a great job of stopping them.

My general point is that personal and tactics don't need an overhaul based on last night, but we definitely need tweaks, and we need our best players to be fit.

Every team needs their best players to be fit but it often doesn't happen.

 

[mark1975]

I didn't mean we were unlucky to lose, but it's unlucky to have three deflections. But, it's a good point that we didn't do a great job of stopping them.

My general point is that personal and tactics don't need an overhaul based on last night, but we definitely need tweaks, and we need our best players to be fit.

Do you think there's an obvious change in how high we've been playing? It looks much the same to me, except that teams are exploiting it more. It might just be timing, in that players aren't quite as focused and the set up isn't as water tight as it can be, it seems six of one, half a dozen of the other. Given how reliant we are on setting up this way, it's a worry that if it's a real flaw in our game that teams are starting to breach, we have to have a rethink.

 

[Frogfish]

Many, from Carra to Souness and so on, saying it all started with the lack of press up top.

"It's like they can't run in this game," said Carragher on co-commentary. "We know that's not the case, so you scratch your head for reasons why. "There's so much wrong with the whole team performance, really. It's really slow, this team that's so energetic against Chelsea and Arsenal, completely ran them off the pitch."