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Pep the cunning fox who outfoxed himself

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rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member
Before the game Klopp described Guardiola as "the best manager in football" – and I really think Klopp is sincere in his praise there. He's been influenced by Guardiola's ideas (I would argue somewhat to his detriment) back in Germany when at some point he tried to mold Borussia into something resembling Guardiola's Bayern, going away from his patented counter-attacking style in favor of more possession. At Liverpool too, I think whenever Klopp went back to more direct "vertical" style of play we looked far more coherent than in those periods when we would have 75% possession and yet struggle to create chances. Back to Guardiola, I think the best thing about him as a manager is that he's a never-ending fountainhead of ideas; he tries and tinkers with every single player's position and every detail and many of the ideas he comes up with are actually very good or at least fresh and unexpected (which is why I guess Klopp and so many other managers always keep one eye on what he's doing). His biggest weakness, however, is a continuation of this strength – whenever Guardiola finds a winning formula he simply cannot stick with it, he always has to pursue some new great thing even when the current thing is working just fine.

You have to admit it was really impressive how Guardiola "solved" our high press last night. The insane-looking starting lineup turned out to have a clear plan and purpose – with De Bruyne always dropping deep in the build-up phase, City had 3 nominal CBs and not one but two deep-lying playmakers, which gave them a numerical advantage over our press. It was an elegant solution to a problem no other opposing manager was quite able to solve this season – how to nullify Liverpool's high press. Initially Milner and Ox tried to push up to even up the numbers, but the risk of exposing the midfield proved too great to bear and after 10 minutes or so our players looked at a loss at what to do, the defense felt "naked" without the shielding from the front and started dropping deep inside the penalty area while the waves of City attacks were coming faster and faster.

City's build up shape in the 1st half, Walker (or De Bruyne) is the "extra man" who allows them to outnumber our pressers, Sane and B. Silva play the role normally reserved for advanced full-backs:
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Somewhat unfairly, Klopp doesn't have the best reputation for making in-game changes, but here he was able to come up with a temporary solution quickly and convey it to the players – after around 30 minutes high press was abandoned, Firmino went to the left flank with Salah tasked with holding up the ball in the middle (which BTW he did expertly, like a true centre-forward) and Mane on the right. Milner and Ox also switched flanks in midfield, with Milner now tasked with helping Trent against the dangerous combination of Sane and David Silva (before that he was trying to mark De Bruyne, which didn't work). We've acquired a bit more solidity in overall play and started slowing down the frequency of City's attacks, but it just so happened that City had their 2 best chances of the game in that period with Sane's disallowed goal and Bernardo Silva hitting the post (maybe some initial confusion after the tactical changes was a factor). Still, having somehow survived this period of adjustment, we were able to start developing some counter-play by the end of the half, which finally resulted in our first dangerous attack of the game right on the stroke of half-time.

At half-time, Klopp further refined the in-game changes: front 3 stayed in place, but Milner and Ox were switched back to their original sides (Milner on the left, Ox on the right), but with the difference that instead of chasing Fernandinho and De Bruyne high up the field they now were stationed closer to Wijnaldum, which allowed Gini (who had a miserable first half) to play with much more freedom and show the best sides of his game. But the biggest and possibly the most decisive change came unexpectedly from the City bench – they switched to a back four! I was a bit too caught up in the emotion to catch it during the game, but Souness made a point about this afterwards and I rewatched parts of the 2nd half to confirm – that's right, incredibly, despite dominating the first half and generally being on course for a win (if not in the tie, then at least in the match), Guardiola has decided to drastically change the team shape after 45 minutes, putting Fernandinho at CB alongside Otamendi with De Bruyne and Silva now playing as the 2 CMs in front of the back 4:

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Even without consciously noticing this tactical change at the time, everyone could immediately feel that we suddenly had a lot more space to operate in midfield. Where Gini was overrun in the first half, now he had space and time to receive the ball, turn and drive or pass forward, which is how Salah's decisive goal eventually came about. Where it seemed like we were playing against 12 or 13 City players in the first half, now we had a numerical advantage in the middle, with David Silva in particular lacking the athleticism to cover the huge spaces between their back four and ours (soon he was substituted). Finally, now that Fernandinho had to stay back in line with Otamendi, it opened giant gaps of space in front of the back 4 and those were the spaces that Firmino, Salah and Mane used to build up our killer counter-attacks.

Souness said that the only possible tactical advantage of this move was that Walker was now able to join in the attack (which he did, with very little effect), but that advantage was offset by Laporte not being able to do the same from the left (because he's not a left-back) as well as a couple of big problems I outlined above, so in the end City lost much more than they have gained from the change. This was literally a case of shooting himself in the foot at the most key moment, brilliantly solving a challenge only to throw the solution away – and here we need to return to the point I made at the start of this post. Guardiola is surely one of the most innovative managers of our time, but sometimes he just cannot help himself. He had us on the ropes in the first half; Klopp did his best to mitigate the damage, but it was still unclear who was going to prevail at 1:0 – and then, by either losing his nerve or trying to be too clever, Guardiola has single-handedly destroyed his own team's best chance of winning the tie.

I wonder if City fans have noticed this on their message boards. @Woland?
UPD: I managed to scroll through about 30 pages of the post-match thread on BlueMoon; exactly 2 people out of 300 noticed the giant tactical fuck-up by their manager. Most predictably blame the referees, some vague UEFA conspiracy and a few also slag off Sterling and Otamendi.
 
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I wonder if City fans have noticed this on their message boards. @Woland?
UPD: I managed to scroll through about 30 pages of the post-match thread on BlueMoon; exactly 2 people out of 300 noticed the giant tactical fuck-up by their manager. Most predictably blame the referees, some vague UEFA conspiracy and a few also slag off Sterling and Otamendi.

And the other 298 posts were about how the Scaliban shout loud and hurt their player's feelings.

No, hardly any of them can spell and they've all got webbed feet. I wouldn't expect any of the inbred manc scum to notice what's actually happening in front of them.
 
And the other 298 posts were about how the Scaliban shout loud and hurt their player's feelings.

No, hardly any of them can spell and they've all got webbed feet. I wouldn't expect any of the inbred manc scum to notice what's actually happening in front of them.

I have to say even RedCafe denizens display far more football knowledge and objectivity then what I've seen in my brief visit onto the BlueMoon. It was truly shocking how shallow/ignorant they were. They have a wonderful team that their fans don't deserve.
 
I have to say even RedCafe denizens display far more football knowledge and objectivity then what I've seen in my brief visit onto the BlueMoon. It was truly shocking how shallow they were. They have a wonderful team that their fans don't deserve.

A few years ago it was quite the opposite. Interesting study in human nature. Success seems to attract frothing weirdos. When a club suffers bad times perhaps only the half decent people hang around. It saddens me that Redcafe has become relatively sane... but how strange that City, who used to be so much fun, are the most paranoid, weird, bitter bunch of wankers that ever followed football.

They have the cheek to call us victims in every other post, while moaning about literally everything, while winning the league at a swagger. The irony is utterly lost on the braindead shiteaters. But most of them were supporting Chelsea not so long ago, so it kinda makes sense.
 
Hmm, I almost dread the time when LFC is so successful that we start attracting this type of fan...
 
I watched this last night and thought it was a brilliant piece of analysis from Souness that literally not one of any of the other TV commentators had recognised.

Yeah, the only thing where I disagree was in his focus on Fernandinho "thinking like a midfielder" and leaving Otamendi alone – sure it did happen, but CBs are supposed to leave the defensive line from time to time, Lovren and Van Dijk did it just as often. It was not Fernandinho's actions that were the problem, but his manager's decision to place David Silva and De Bruyne of all people in front of them to cover the crucial space in front of the back 4.

You could say he took a risk to help the attack, but in the first half he had a system that was working very well (even if Klopp started making inroads against it) and he abandoned it in favor of something clearly worse. It's the similar type of mistake he's made at Bayern when they got eliminated in the CL each season – calculating and weighing every detail to perfection when it came to build-up and attacking play, but leaving the defense in an incoherent, confused mess.
 
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Brilliant post i saw the analysis from souness last nite too. We could be reading into it too much as the changes could have come to his mind because:-

1) he lost patience and figured he could get the players more forward with defensive support in walker as our attacks were very few.

2) the loss to united may have played on his mind or the inability of his team to score or create chances to score when
we defend deep.

3) that single chance we had at the end of the first half scared him so he rearranged team to get an early goal in the 2nd half.
 
rumours of another major spending spree

Speaking last Friday, Guardiola hinted at another big summer of spending by claiming it was “impossible” to challenge for the biggest trophies, playing his brand of football, without serious investment. “It is impossible to do that, to play the way we play, the results we achieved, without top players,” he said. “And today the top players cost a lot of money.
“When you say, ‘Pep, what you have done in Barcelona or Bayern Munich, is it possible to do that without those big players?’ No, it’s impossible, so be calm.
“We need money to buy and to play in that level all the time. To achieve these results you need this investment. If not you need miracles and I am not able to do that.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...nding-man-city-could-top-600-million-targets/
 
rumours of another major spending spree

Speaking last Friday, Guardiola hinted at another big summer of spending by claiming it was “impossible” to challenge for the biggest trophies, playing his brand of football, without serious investment. “It is impossible to do that, to play the way we play, the results we achieved, without top players,” he said. “And today the top players cost a lot of money.
“When you say, ‘Pep, what you have done in Barcelona or Bayern Munich, is it possible to do that without those big players?’ No, it’s impossible, so be calm.
“We need money to buy and to play in that level all the time. To achieve these results you need this investment. If not you need miracles and I am not able to do that.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...nding-man-city-could-top-600-million-targets/



For a side who are challenging on all fronts, they do seem to lack a bit of strength in depth (esp. given the injury record of same players like Kompany and Gundogan)
 
The whole rationale for last summer's spending spree was strength in depth - two top players for every position. They missed out on a couple such as Sanchez and Alves but still.

I reckon Aguero will be off so perhaps they'll go for a big money forward like Dybala or someone like that.
 
To say they need investment is obscene

He's just fucked off he was out thought
 
That team is good enough to challenge on all front...providing that bald tit wants to change his setup occasionally

We had 3 fit centre mids and we beat them.
 
That team is good enough to challenge on all front...providing that bald tit wants to change his setup occasionally

We had 3 fit centre mids and we beat them.

I think his problem is in changing his set-up too often... sometimes literally every 45 minutes. It's near the end of his 2nd season at City, they are about to win the league at a canter, but still nothing even close to a settled back 4.
 
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Seriously... he is insecure at best and part of me thinks he is fighting a constant battle to prove his success at Barca was not down to Messi. Truth be told winning with Munich means fuck all..and he was still unable to break the real madrid hold on the CL trophy.
 
I think his problem is in changing his set-up too often... sometimes literally every 45 minutes. It's near the end of his 2nd season at City, they are about to win the league at a canter, but still nothing even close to a settled back 4.
It's bizarre

He buys a brilliant centre back in laporte, and he's not even a guaranteed starter. The actual fuck? He's got a team who should be working wonderfully in tandem (in defence)
 
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