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Ox-Revoir

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Finding buyers for so many players in this market will be very difficult, especially given how stubborn we are with our valuations.

Take Wilson for eg - Burnley made an offer of 12 million (rising to 16 million) last summer, and we refused. No idea why we didn't sell. This is his 4th loan in 4 years. Do we expect his value to go up? Poor decision, and if we continue acting like that, we're not going to be able to generate the cash we desperately need to buy.
 
General opinion on Reddit, Twitter

Before the Burnley goal: He's rubbish
After the Burnley goal : Always rated him
 
keniget said:
What history has been rewritten?

He's been a bad buy.
Click to expand...

He was instrumental in us coming close to winning the CL, and I was more referring to the "no position" type posts. He looked pretty comfortable and lethal in the centre a few years ago. Injuries have curtailed his career, but he's a good player. And for the record, where did I say he was a good buy? You win some and you lose some, he was worth the gamble because he's clearly talented.
 
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mark1975 said:
He was instrumental in us coming close to winning the CL, and I was more referring to the "no position" type posts. He looked pretty comfortable and lethal in the cente a few years ago. Injuries have curtailed his career, but he's a good player. And for the record, where did I say he was a good buy? You win some and you lose some, he was worth the gamble because he's clearly talented.
Click to expand...

I didn't say you did. I'm saying he was a bad buy and it was a bad gamble at 35M because he was notoriously injury prone.

Naby Keita is a good player too. It doesn't really mean anything if you can't perform regularly.

Anyways, meh. I've got nothing against the guy. It's just frustrating that we seemingly have a second 11 full of players either Klopp has no interest in or can't stay fit.
 
I always assumed he was brought in as a stop-gap while we waited 12 months for Keita to arrive. Squad depth for a year, cover for Keira’s bedding in period then sell on, possibly at a profit. Then a few things happened:
1. He exceeded expectations (mine, at least)
2. He got badly injured
3. Keita underwhelmed
4. Keita got injured (a lot).
I think Klopp likes him, has probably given up on Keita but isn’t quite there with Ox - he still wants him to succeed.
So we’ve got a player whose ceiling has been affected by injury, he won’t easily find a buyer, but is well-liked.
It’s a conundrum. A manager with no empathy would bin him off without a second’s thought. But we don’t have that kind of manager. Our manager is a magnificent human being and I fucking love him for that, even if it does mean we’re in a bit of a quandary with the Ox. I’ll trust Klopp to do what’s right.
I also think, on limited evidence admittedly, that he looks well-suited to the false 9 role where we’ve struggled when Bobby is out of form.
 
mark1975 said:
He was instrumental in us coming close to winning the CL, and I was more referring to the "no position" type posts. He looked pretty comfortable and lethal in the centre a few years ago. Injuries have curtailed his career, but he's a good player. And for the record, where did I say he was a good buy? You win some and you lose some, he was worth the gamble because he's clearly talented.
Click to expand...

Without injuries, I am sure Klopp would have found a use for him. At the very least, he could be the player coming off the bench who can burst through the lines and take a shot at goal. Most likely he would have scored more goals from the bench than our starting midfielders also.

But, at the same time, it was very well known that he was injury prone and we spent 35 million on him. I don't think the frustration displayed in this thread is on him. I think the frustration is more on whoever sanctioned the transfer who thought that his injury frequency will reduce once he moves North. I have the same fear with Konate also (if we sign him).
 
He had been injured a number of times previously, but in fairness the last injury he'd had was a while before we signed him. I'm with mark on this.
 
What he did against Burnley to score that goal is what Klopp bought him for it was very Sane-esque type thing. That is what I think his role is. Problem has been consistency and injuries. Also have to say his sub appearances this season have been rather subdued due to not actually having the ball much. Its a difficult one to resolve. All the ability but not the best footballing brain.
 
His main attribute for me, is his ability to twat a football at goal with decent accuracy

No one else in our team comes close. And that's a weird fucking thing for a professional side with aspirations
 
Moron: agree with most of that but not the last sentence. There's nothing wrong with his footballing brain - in fact, apart from injuries his career has probably also suffered from his being as adaptable as he is.
 
If we think Harry Wilson could offer more as an impact sub/occasional starter - then we should sell Ox to the highest bidder.
 
Judge Jules said:
If we think that I reckon we'd be wrong. If fit, the Ox is good enough. IMHO Wilson isn't, regrettably.
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And that would be the reason we should sell Wilson and retain Ox.

I’m not as convinced as you, for the record - I think Ox is a better option “IF” he could remain fit- but he doesn’t. Wilson lacks pace, but he can hit a ball and he isn’t injury prone.

Also, for the record - I’d keep Ox, but sell Shaqiri and give Wilson a crack instead of him.

But... that wouldn’t generate as much funds to use in other areas.
 
I feel like I’ve spammed these threads over the years with this same point, but I simply don’t understand why AOC has not been used occasionally in place of Trent. He has all the attributes for that overlapping fullback role, is pacy, and can carry and deliver a ball. Given how short of the the first team Neco Williams appears to be (and could probably do with a season on loan) it’s surprising to me. It appears however that Klopp is pushing him the other way, because he’s not even getting midfield run outs now, but coming on wide up front
 
Because that would obviously lead to a series of catastrophic defeats and Klopp getting sacked.
 
Grjt2 said:
I feel like I’ve spammed these threads over the years with this same point, but I simply don’t understand why AOC has not been used occasionally in place of Trent. He has all the attributes for that overlapping fullback role, is pacy, and can carry and deliver a ball. Given how short of the the first team Neco Williams appears to be (and could probably do with a season on loan) it’s surprising to me. It appears however that Klopp is pushing him the other way, because he’s not even getting midfield run outs now, but coming on wide up front
Click to expand...
It was Wenger who eventually came to the idea that Ox was best suited as a wing-back. Ox didn't like it, and that's one of the principal reasons he ended up joining us. Sadly, I think Wenger was right. He'd be a pretty decent attacking full-back / wing-back.

He just doesn't have enough of an impact in midfield. The goal threat is nice, but playing in midfield (especially in Klopp's midfield) means you have to be extremely good at pressing, retaining possession, playing at the right tempo, being press-resistant and being positionally astute. He doesn't excel at any of those unfortunately.
 
dmishra said:
It was Wenger who eventually came to the idea that Ox was best suited as a wing-back. Ox didn't like it, and that's one of the principal reasons he ended up joining us. Sadly, I think Wenger was right. He'd be a pretty decent attacking full-back / wing-back.

He just doesn't have enough of an impact in midfield. The goal threat is nice, but playing in midfield (especially in Klopp's midfield) means you have to be extremely good at pressing, retaining possession, playing at the right tempo, being press-resistant and being positionally astute. He doesn't excel at any of those unfortunately.
Click to expand...

Whatever we may think of Wenger post 2008, he was still one of the best in the business at looking at the attributes of a player and identifying a role for him on the pitch.

By the way, I am not sure if Ox has the legs anymore for being a fullback in a Klopp system.
 
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