Owen

[ibromurph]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=34487.msg899286#msg899286 date=1246612559]
It does anger me that he is going to United, but more that we have let it happen. I really think that bringing him back would've been a good move and I am sure that he would have come to Liverpool rather than sign for United. As it turns out I am afraid that I fall on the side of 'he didn't have a great deal of choice'.

I never thought he was a cunt and I don't think he is a cunt now. I have however always thought he was a professional footballer in the truest sense of the term and as such will always have one eye on what is best for himself. Lots of players are like that. The problem is that with Owen we judge him by the same standards as people like Carra and Fowler, who wouldn't go to United in a million years.

Now if he goes to United I can't suddenly say "I hate him now" because I don't. I want him to do badly because I want any United player to do badly but I'm afraid I still can't hate him because deep down, with the offers he reportedly had on the table I can't really blame him
[/quote]

+1.

Can't hate him as i've never 'loved' him. He's a clever businessman who has looked after himself financially. But having said that any Liverpool player (or former player who has played over 100 games for us) going to United deserves booing.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=34487.msg899298#msg899298 date=1246613481]
But having said that any Liverpool player (or former player who has played over 100 games for us) going to United deserves booing.
[/quote]

I'd boo any United player purely because they play for United but I won't be reserving any extra loud boos for Owen.

I wonder what United fans actually think about this move? Do any still come on here?

 

[SaRed]

There was something on here about him turning down a pay-as-you-play offer from us.

Was there any truth to that? If so, what was the difference between what we were offering and what the scum are offering?

 

[doctor_mac]

I don't think anyone should be surprised by this, and God forgive me (the omnipotent beardy one, not the prolific goal scoring one) I understand why Owen would make this move regardless of the ill feeling it would provoke from Liverpool fans.

Owen is a professional footballer, one of the highest profile players of his generation, pretty much consigned to the scrapheap by everyone. Suddenly, when it looked like only the likes of Hull were interested, the league champions tell him they want him. Under those circumstances, I wonder if even God (the prolific goal scoring one, not the omnipotent beardy one) wouldn't be tempted. The best footballers tend to be egotistical and have unwavering self belief, and for the currently strongest team in the prem to tell you that you're wanted has to turn your head when you're someone who thinks along those lines. "You're too good for that Michael", is a sentiment he's sure to agree with.

When Fowler was tapped by Utd he was at the very beginning of his career. If Utd had come in for him instead of us at the time we brought him back to Anfield, he'd be bound to think about it- some part of him would surely be tempted, the part of him that believes he's good enough to play in the Champs League, and to be part of a title wining side. Of course, as a living Liverpool legend, he may have set aside personal ambition. For Owen- booed and pilloried by the Kop, what, he might think, has he got to lose? The affection of Liverpool fans? From the evidence of this thread (before Utd came into it) that was in short supply. And that's not to say he deserved adoration, but he might have expected a general respect for his achievements. Owen's move to Real was a proper mercenary move. This, he no doubt feels, is a big team showing faith in him, and giving him a chance to play on the stages he considers he is still good enough to grace. This is about personal ambition, for a player who knows he is in the last phase of his career. Of course 'personal ambition' can be spun as 'mercenary', but its a question of semantics. Is he driven to make the most out of his own career (rather than the glory of a particular club?) Yes. But in this he is no different to 99% of modern professional footballers.

It makes me feel queasy to imagine that impish player (gleefully rubbing his hands together as he scored another goal), playing for Utd. But that player doesn't exist anymore, and I can still remember him for us fondly. I hope and expect he'll not do well for Utd, as much as I wish it for any Utd player, but I'll never hate him. Not even now.

 

[Ossi]

What an nightmare it would be if he signed for them...and became the player he once was. :-X

 

[grjt]

I'm certainly no Owen fan, but alot of the posts in this thread smack of fear... we dont like him enough to want to have signed him, but were a bit worried that with good players around him he might come back to haunt us.

Lets be fair - if we were in for him he'd probably be on his way to us. Were not, and Hull were his only other option - it doesnt take a genius to work out what anyone with half a brain should do. "Brand Owen" 1) is no longer in existence 2) has absolutely no bearing here at all; he's simply signing for the best club available for him to move to. Cunt.

 

[LadyRed]

Are all those who cry every time someone dares to say anything bad about their beloved St. Micheal still gonna defend him as fiercely as they used to?

I can't stand Micheal Owen, I don't forgive him for the way he left, I don't forgive him for the way he played in the final few months when at Liverpool, I don't forgive him for thinking he's too good to play for us and more than anything I don't forgive him for thinking that he could slot back in at Liverpool when it all went wrong for him at Madrid. Any player who had any compassion for the club would have given the new manager some time, but, no Micheal Owen was destined for bigger and better.

The reality is Micheal Owen is over hyped, always has been and always will be, he's benefited from the fact that there have been few other talented English strikers around in the past decade, and therefore became England's main man, that coupled with a few big moments on the big stage created expectations for Micheal Owen. Expectations that he was never good enough to met, hence to constant whinging from him about 'people writing him off' etc. All Micheal Owen had was pace, all of his big goals; Argentina, Man Utd, the two FA Cup final goals were all down to his pace. Balls over the top (probably flicked on by Heskey) that he beat the defender to and therefore scored. His pace went a long time ago.

I don't have the time of day for Micheal Owen, he's whiny little man that's nowhere near as good as he thinks he is; perfect for Utd after all.

My thoughts of him being a total arsehole and now confirmed more so than ever.

Ps Please don't bother with the 'How could you say this about a 'Liverpool legend' tripe.

Pps I've quiffed the whole thread, so have no idea what anyone else has already said on here.

 

[grjt]

[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899315#msg899315 date=1246615318]
Are all those who cry every time someone dares to say anything bad about their beloved St. Micheal still gonna defend him as fiercely as they used to?

I can't stand Micheal Owen, I don't forgive him for the way he left, I don't forgive him for the way he played in the final few months when at Liverpool, I don't forgive him for thinking he's too good to play for us and more than anything I don't forgive him for thinking that he could slot back in at Liverpool when it all went wrong for him at Madrid. Any player who had any compassion for the club would have given the new manager some time, but, no Micheal Owen was destined for bigger and better.

The reality is Micheal Owen is over hyped, always has been and always will be, he's benefited from the fact that there have been few other talented English strikers around in the past decade, and therefore became England's main man, that coupled with a few big moments on the big stage created expectations for Micheal Owen. Expectations that he was never good enough to met, hence to constant whinging from him about 'people writing him off' etc. All Micheal Owen had was pace, all of his big goals; Argentina, Man Utd, the two FA Cup final goals were all down to his pace. Balls over the top (probably flicked on by Heskey) that he beat the defender to and therefore scored. His pace went a long time ago.

I don't have the time of day for Micheal Owen, he's whiny little man that's nowhere near as good as he thinks he is; perfect for Utd after all.

My thoughts of him being a total arsehole and now confirmed more so than ever.

Ps Please don't bother with the 'How could you say this about a 'Liverpool legend' tripe.

Pps I've quiffed the whole thread, so have no idea what anyone else has already said on here.

[/quote]

Can we bother with the "youre talking shit" tripe?

All goals through pace? Give me a fucking break - the fact that youve highlighted both of the FA cup final goals as examples further confirms the bullshit.

However, completely agree with your sentiments about how he left. I think its alright for us to say he's a wanker, whilst admitting that he's a good player.

 

[ibromurph]

[quote author=grjt link=topic=34487.msg899309#msg899309 date=1246614652]
I'm certainly no Owen fan, but alot of the posts in this thread smack of fear... we dont like him enough to want to have signed him, but were a bit worried that with good players around him he might come back to haunt us.
[/quote]

Yeah. I agree.

The way I look at it.. they've lost Tevez and Ronaldo, and they've brought/bringing in Owen and Valencia. That's a fantastic drop in quality. (i'd be suprised if the spending ends there but nonetheless, the Owen transfer suggests a bit of desperation).

Rafa has to be looking at this and thinking 'if we keep everyone we'll have a great chance of winning the league this year or at least finishing above United' (which usually means you've won the league).

 

[LadyRed]

I said all of his 'big goals', as in the ones that helped build his reputation.

Obviously he scored a lot of goals for us, I'm not ignoring that; but he hasn't been that player for a long time.

He's nowhere near as good as people make out he is.

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=34487.msg899319#msg899319 date=1246615604]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=34487.msg899309#msg899309 date=1246614652]
I'm certainly no Owen fan, but alot of the posts in this thread smack of fear... we dont like him enough to want to have signed him, but were a bit worried that with good players around him he might come back to haunt us.
[/quote]

Yeah. I agree.

The way I look at it.. they've lost Tevez and Ronaldo, and they've brought/bringing in Owen and Valencia. That's a fantastic drop in quality.

Rafa has to be looking at this and thinking 'if we keep everyone we'll have a great chance of winning the league this year or at least finishing above United' (which usually means you've won the league).
[/quote]

Surely this can't be Utd's signings though? They're going to pull a few rabbits out of the hat you'd think.

 

[23carragold]

Imagine if he wins the league with Utd.

The year they go above us, with 19, and that little fucker is part of it, celebrating it with them. Thats what i cant stand the thought of.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Sorry Anita but Owen was not overhyped. At the time he was an outstanding forward.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=34487.msg899307#msg899307 date=1246614576]
I don't think anyone should be surprised by this, and God forgive me (the omnipotent beardy one, not the prolific goal scoring one) I understand why Owen would make this move regardless of the ill feeling it would provoke from Liverpool fans.

Owen is a professional footballer, one of the highest profile players of his generation, pretty much consigned to the scrapheap by everyone. Suddenly, when it looked like only the likes of Hull were interested, the league champions tell him they want him. Under those circumstances, I wonder if even God (the prolific goal scoring one, not the omnipotent beardy one) wouldn't be tempted. The best footballers tend to be egotistical and have unwavering self belief, and for the currently strongest team in the prem to tell you that you're wanted has to turn your head when you're someone who thinks along those lines. "You're too good for that Michael", is a sentiment he's sure to agree with.

When Fowler was tapped by Utd he was at the very beginning of his career. If Utd had come in for him instead of us at the time we brought him back to Anfield, he'd be bound to think about it- some part of him would surely be tempted, the part of him that believes he's good enough to play in the Champs League, and to be part of a title wining side. Of course, as a living Liverpool legend, he may have set aside personal ambition. For Owen- booed and pilloried by the Kop, what, he might think, has he got to lose? The affection of Liverpool fans? From the evidence of this thread (before Utd came into it) that was in short supply. And that's not to say he deserved adoration, but he might have expected a general respect for his achievements. Owen's move to Real was a proper mercenary move. This, he no doubt feels, is a big team showing faith in him, and giving him a chance to play on the stages he considers he is still good enough to grace. This is about personal ambition, for a player who knows he is in the last phase of his career. Of course 'personal ambition' can be spun as 'mercenary', but its a question of semantics. Is he driven to make the most out of his own career (rather than the glory of a particular club?) Yes. But in this he is no different to 99% of modern professional footballers.

It makes me feel queasy to imagine that impish player (gleefully rubbing his hands together as he scored another goal), playing for Utd. But that player doesn't exist anymore, and I can still remember him for us fondly. I hope and expect he'll not do well for Utd, as much as I wish it for any Utd player, but I'll never hate him. Not even now.
[/quote]

I agree with most of that. Good post.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899315#msg899315 date=1246615318]

I don't forgive him for the way he played in the final few months when at Liverpool

[/quote]

Yeah, top scorer, 7 goals in his last 10 games, qualifying for the CL. Damn him. What a wanker.

 

[LadyRed]

My venom probably took to overboard on a few points in that post. But the 'outstanding' forward was gone as soon as the pace was.

I don't have the time of day for Micheal Owen, not since the minute he left us for Madrid.

Fowler, Carra and Gerrard would all rather play for Hull than Utd, that's what set them apart from this little , self obsessed, money hungry deluded arrogant git.

 

[Atlas]

He won't pass the medical, he strung LFC along for ages before he left. He knew he was a well known world brand at the time and that LFC would want to keep him and try to do as much as possible to do so, they just accepted his promise of signing rather than pushing it.

Rafa went over to see him, Gerrard and Cara in Portugal that summer to make sure they stayed cos Stevie was thinking of going at the time also (I know which one I would have preferred to stay) and even Owens time at LFC was hit a number of injuries, he has never got over them and at this stage of his career he won't get over them.

 

[LadyRed]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=34487.msg899326#msg899326 date=1246616302]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899315#msg899315 date=1246615318]

I don't forgive him for the way he played in the final few months when at Liverpool

[/quote]

Yeah, top scorer, 7 goals in his last 10 games, qualifying for the CL. Damn him. What a wanker.
[/quote]

Yep, he is.

I love how many people jumped on Cisse for looking like he didn't give a toss, and yet short memories about how Owen used to sulk around the pitch.

Of course he was gonna bloody score goals, our whole system was set up to suit him and to get goals out of him.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899327#msg899327 date=1246616309]
My venom probably took to overboard on a few points in that post. But the 'outstanding' forward was gone as soon as the pace was.

I don't have the time of day for Micheal Owen, not since the minute he left us for Madrid.

Fowler, Carra and Gerrard would all rather play for Hull than Utd, that's what set them apart from this little , self obsessed, money hungry deluded arrogant git.
[/quote]I dont think any of them given a choice of Man utd or Hull would go to Hull. Maybe Fowler, but i doubt it.

 

[H]

[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899329#msg899329 date=1246616449]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34487.msg899326#msg899326 date=1246616302]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899315#msg899315 date=1246615318]

I don't forgive him for the way he played in the final few months when at Liverpool

[/quote]

Yeah, top scorer, 7 goals in his last 10 games, qualifying for the CL. Damn him. What a wanker.
[/quote]

Yep, he is.

I love how many people jumped on Cisse for looking like he didn't give a toss, and yet short memories about how Owen used to sulk around the pitch.

Of course he was gonna bloody score goals, our whole system was set up to suit him and to get goals out of him.
[/quote]

I seem to remember him missing countless pens in his last season too, mind you at 12/1 for a missed pen he probably made a tidy profit.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899329#msg899329 date=1246616449]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34487.msg899326#msg899326 date=1246616302]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899315#msg899315 date=1246615318]

I don't forgive him for the way he played in the final few months when at Liverpool

[/quote]

Yeah, top scorer, 7 goals in his last 10 games, qualifying for the CL. Damn him. What a wanker.
[/quote]

Yep, he is.

I love how many people jumped on Cisse for looking like he didn't give a toss, and yet short memories about how Owen used to sulk around the pitch.

Of course he was gonna bloody score goals, our whole system was set up to suit him and to get goals out of him.
[/quote]

So you admit he scored goals, which is what he was there to do. And we won enough games to qualify for the Champions League (which was generally what we aimed for at that time).

So what was it in his last few months that Michael Owen did in terms of how he played did that offended you so much?

 

[Richey]

[quote author=H link=topic=34487.msg899331#msg899331 date=1246616857]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899329#msg899329 date=1246616449]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34487.msg899326#msg899326 date=1246616302]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899315#msg899315 date=1246615318]

I don't forgive him for the way he played in the final few months when at Liverpool

[/quote]

Yeah, top scorer, 7 goals in his last 10 games, qualifying for the CL. Damn him. What a wanker.
[/quote]

Yep, he is.

I love how many people jumped on Cisse for looking like he didn't give a toss, and yet short memories about how Owen used to sulk around the pitch.

Of course he was gonna bloody score goals, our whole system was set up to suit him and to get goals out of him.
[/quote]

I seem to remember him missing countless pens in his last season too, mind you at 12/1 for a missed pen he probably made a tidy profit.
[/quote]

Yes. All 2 of them. Useless cunt.

He scored 4 of course but let's ignore that.

Afterall, we're clearly here to bury Michael Owen, not to praise him

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=34487.msg899325#msg899325 date=1246616148]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=34487.msg899307#msg899307 date=1246614576]
I don't think anyone should be surprised by this, and God forgive me (the omnipotent beardy one, not the prolific goal scoring one) I understand why Owen would make this move regardless of the ill feeling it would provoke from Liverpool fans.

Owen is a professional footballer, one of the highest profile players of his generation, pretty much consigned to the scrapheap by everyone. Suddenly, when it looked like only the likes of Hull were interested, the league champions tell him they want him. Under those circumstances, I wonder if even God (the prolific goal scoring one, not the omnipotent beardy one) wouldn't be tempted. The best footballers tend to be egotistical and have unwavering self belief, and for the currently strongest team in the prem to tell you that you're wanted has to turn your head when you're someone who thinks along those lines. "You're too good for that Michael", is a sentiment he's sure to agree with.

When Fowler was tapped by Utd he was at the very beginning of his career. If Utd had come in for him instead of us at the time we brought him back to Anfield, he'd be bound to think about it- some part of him would surely be tempted, the part of him that believes he's good enough to play in the Champs League, and to be part of a title wining side. Of course, as a living Liverpool legend, he may have set aside personal ambition. For Owen- booed and pilloried by the Kop, what, he might think, has he got to lose? The affection of Liverpool fans? From the evidence of this thread (before Utd came into it) that was in short supply. And that's not to say he deserved adoration, but he might have expected a general respect for his achievements. Owen's move to Real was a proper mercenary move. This, he no doubt feels, is a big team showing faith in him, and giving him a chance to play on the stages he considers he is still good enough to grace. This is about personal ambition, for a player who knows he is in the last phase of his career. Of course 'personal ambition' can be spun as 'mercenary', but its a question of semantics. Is he driven to make the most out of his own career (rather than the glory of a particular club?) Yes. But in this he is no different to 99% of modern professional footballers.

It makes me feel queasy to imagine that impish player (gleefully rubbing his hands together as he scored another goal), playing for Utd. But that player doesn't exist anymore, and I can still remember him for us fondly. I hope and expect he'll not do well for Utd, as much as I wish it for any Utd player, but I'll never hate him. Not even now.
[/quote]

I agree with most of that. Good post.
[/quote]

Yup good post Doc, I agree with 90% of that too

regards

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=34487.msg899337#msg899337 date=1246617358]
[quote author=H link=topic=34487.msg899331#msg899331 date=1246616857]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899329#msg899329 date=1246616449]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34487.msg899326#msg899326 date=1246616302]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899315#msg899315 date=1246615318]

I don't forgive him for the way he played in the final few months when at Liverpool

[/quote]

Yeah, top scorer, 7 goals in his last 10 games, qualifying for the CL. Damn him. What a wanker.
[/quote]

Yep, he is.

I love how many people jumped on Cisse for looking like he didn't give a toss, and yet short memories about how Owen used to sulk around the pitch.

Of course he was gonna bloody score goals, our whole system was set up to suit him and to get goals out of him.
[/quote]

I seem to remember him missing countless pens in his last season too, mind you at 12/1 for a missed pen he probably made a tidy profit.
[/quote]

Yes. All 2 of them. Useless cunt.

He scored 4 of course but let's ignore that.

Afterall, we're clearly here to bury Michael Owen, not to praise him
[/quote]
Et tu Anita

regards

 

[koze]

He wouldn't. Surely not..


Would he?

[quote author=H link=topic=34487.msg899331#msg899331 date=1246616857]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899329#msg899329 date=1246616449]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34487.msg899326#msg899326 date=1246616302]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899315#msg899315 date=1246615318]

I don't forgive him for the way he played in the final few months when at Liverpool

[/quote]

Yeah, top scorer, 7 goals in his last 10 games, qualifying for the CL. Damn him. What a wanker.
[/quote]

Yep, he is.

I love how many people jumped on Cisse for looking like he didn't give a toss, and yet short memories about how Owen used to sulk around the pitch.

Of course he was gonna bloody score goals, our whole system was set up to suit him and to get goals out of him.
[/quote]

I seem to remember him missing countless pens in his last season too, mind you at 12/1 for a missed pen he probably made a tidy profit.
[/quote]

 

[LadyRed]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=34487.msg899333#msg899333 date=1246617122]
So what was it in his last few months that Michael Owen did in terms of how he played did that offended you so much?
[/quote]

He walked around like a sulky git who looked like he couldn't be arsed and thought he was too good to play for us.

He also thought Liverpool with a new manager and prospects wasn't worth sticking around for.

 

[LadyRed]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34487.msg899330#msg899330 date=1246616579]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899327#msg899327 date=1246616309]
My venom probably took to overboard on a few points in that post. But the 'outstanding' forward was gone as soon as the pace was.

I don't have the time of day for Micheal Owen, not since the minute he left us for Madrid.

Fowler, Carra and Gerrard would all rather play for Hull than Utd, that's what set them apart from this little , self obsessed, money hungry deluded arrogant git.
[/quote]I dont think any of them given a choice of Man utd or Hull would go to Hull. Maybe Fowler, but i doubt it.
[/quote]

I don't think Carra would ever play for Utd.

 

[Buddha]

[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899345#msg899345 date=1246617588]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34487.msg899330#msg899330 date=1246616579]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899327#msg899327 date=1246616309]
My venom probably took to overboard on a few points in that post. But the 'outstanding' forward was gone as soon as the pace was.

I don't have the time of day for Micheal Owen, not since the minute he left us for Madrid.

Fowler, Carra and Gerrard would all rather play for Hull than Utd, that's what set them apart from this little , self obsessed, money hungry deluded arrogant git.
[/quote]I dont think any of them given a choice of Man utd or Hull would go to Hull. Maybe Fowler, but i doubt it.
[/quote]

I don't think Carra would ever play for Utd.
[/quote]

Maybe Everton.

 

[H]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=34487.msg899337#msg899337 date=1246617358]
[quote author=H link=topic=34487.msg899331#msg899331 date=1246616857]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899329#msg899329 date=1246616449]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34487.msg899326#msg899326 date=1246616302]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=34487.msg899315#msg899315 date=1246615318]

I don't forgive him for the way he played in the final few months when at Liverpool

[/quote]

Yeah, top scorer, 7 goals in his last 10 games, qualifying for the CL. Damn him. What a wanker.
[/quote]

Yep, he is.

I love how many people jumped on Cisse for looking like he didn't give a toss, and yet short memories about how Owen used to sulk around the pitch.

Of course he was gonna bloody score goals, our whole system was set up to suit him and to get goals out of him.
[/quote]

I seem to remember him missing countless pens in his last season too, mind you at 12/1 for a missed pen he probably made a tidy profit.
[/quote]

Yes. All 2 of them. Useless cunt.

He scored 4 of course but let's ignore that.

Afterall, we're clearly here to bury Michael Owen, not to praise him
[/quote]
Do you just think of a number, fit it to your arguement, and then think everyone will believe it????



Sunday, 14th March 2004


Michael Owen missed the chance to bring Liverpool back on level terms with the score at 1-0 today when he missed a penalty.

Owen's penalty miss today means he has now failed to score in 50% of penalties he has taken for Liverpool. Of the twenty he has taken only ten have hit the back of the net.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

I know there is a long way to go yet, but this seems to be turning into what could be a grim window for us when it promised so much.
Instead of bringing in a couple of top forward/wide players we are expounding much energy on keeping our midfield foundations, we risk being outbid for practically all our potential targets. There is no sign that any of our dead-wood are off yet. One of our targets turns us down on the basis of our rivalry with United, (although in fairness he has other options) and now an ex legend looks like he is joining our fiercest rivals
Still I thing GJ is a good if overpriced addition.
humph

regards