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N'gog

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Ryan

Ryan

The Prophet
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... Can play. I like him, and always have done. His first touch for that goal was TASHTY. The finish (without ever once looking at the goal or keeper you might have noticed) was decent-striker-alright material.

Also good to see the idea I floated on here a while back of ensuring our players get in the way of Mascherano's attempted shots to block them down paid off.

Anyway, I think a pecking order reshuffle is required - I'd have N'gog as first sub for Torres, Babel second, Bubba the double-legged amputee from Forrest Gump as third, with Voronin 4th if required.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35988.msg948703#msg948703 date=1253677600]
... Can play. I like him, and always have done. His first touch for that goal was TASHTY. The finish (without ever once looking at the goal or keeper you might have noticed) was decent-striker-alright material.

Also good to see the idea I floated on here a while back of ensuring our players get in the way of Mascherano's attempted shots to block them down paid off.

Anyway, I think a pecking order reshuffle is required - I'd have N'gog as first sub for Torres, Babel second, Bubba the double-legged amputee from Forrest Gump as third, with Voronin 4th if required.
[/quote]
lol..

Tbf, he did score an awesome goal v Sunderland our Masch.

Or was that Sissiko?
 
I've been a fan of his since he arrived. Not sure why as I'd never heard of him until he signed. I think he can be a very good 2nd striker and he does score goals, even though all his premier league goals seem to be 2.5 cm tap ins ...

He can be a very good squad player I think.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35988.msg948703#msg948703 date=1253677600]
Bubba the double-legged amputee from Forrest Gump
[/quote]

Go and watch Forrest Gump again

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35988.msg948703#msg948703 date=1253677600]
Can play. I like him, and always have done. His first touch for that goal was TASHTY. The finish (without ever once looking at the goal or keeper you might have noticed) was decent-striker-alright material.
[/quote]

I like him as well he looks like a real predator but he really needs to work on his first touch, not because it's bad, but because it is very erratic. Sometimes the ball just bounces off him and other times, like tonight, it sticks to his feet.
 
I have liked him for some time now, he looks like he has everything in his locker and could one day be Torres-like. It also seems to be natural for him rather than forced, he knows where the goal is and he knows how to skin defenders through skill and pace. It has pissed me off that so many on here have been slagging him off based literally (as they have said as much) on the couple of sub appearances they have seen from him :🙂 Here's hoping he has a bright future with us, and some people get the chance to eat some humble pie.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35988.msg948715#msg948715 date=1253681087]
I've been a fan of his since he arrived. Not sure why as I'd never heard of him until he signed. I think he can be a very good 2nd striker and he does score goals, even though all his premier league goals seem to be 2.5 cm tap ins ...

He can be a very good squad player I think.
[/quote]

didnt see game. needs video. any?
 
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=35988.msg948727#msg948727 date=1253683583]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35988.msg948715#msg948715 date=1253681087]
I've been a fan of his since he arrived. Not sure why as I'd never heard of him until he signed. I think he can be a very good 2nd striker and he does score goals, even though all his premier league goals seem to be 2.5 cm tap ins ...

He can be a very good squad player I think.
[/quote]

didnt see game. needs video. any?
[/quote]

[quote author=abbiedukes link=topic=35980.msg948722#msg948722 date=1253682940]
http://www.liverpoolfcgoals.webs.com 🙂
[/quote]
 
Yeah, he does get a hard time, and though I can see why, the thing that counts for me is that he has scored at every level we've tested him at thus far, including a proper strikers' goal in the CL.

Thus far his overall game isn't at a high enough standard in terms of bringing others into the game, but he does show some very clever touches in between some horrendous ones. I think we can make him a very decent player, maybe better than that. I'm sure he was well worth the million squids we paid for him.
 
I've never seen anything special in Wash before, and tbh I still don't - although it was a very nice first touch and turn for the goal. I suppose what annoyed me before was that he was preferred to Nemeth on the basis that he was bigger, stronger and faster (because his finishing is generally not as composed or clinical), and yet he's not *really* all that strong or fast. Oddly enough, the thing that encouraged me the most tonight was not the goal, but that tackle near the halfway line where he used his body strength to dispossess one of the Leeds players. It was the first sign I've seen that he may yet end up utilising his obvious physical attributes.
 
He probably won't turn out to be good enough for a long term LFC career but it's too early to dismiss the possibility just yet.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35988.msg948753#msg948753 date=1253690455]
I'm guessing not many of these were starts:

Appearances - 21
Goals - 5

Not bad.
[/quote]

No, not bad. But some of those goals were a) piss-easy tap-ins, and b) came at the end of matches we were already winning easily. That's not to dismiss them - they all count - but you can hardly use those stats to say Wash is a goal machine. Aren't Voronin's stats for us pretty similar?
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35988.msg948755#msg948755 date=1253690656]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35988.msg948753#msg948753 date=1253690455]
I'm guessing not many of these were starts:

Appearances - 21
Goals - 5

Not bad.
[/quote]

No, not bad. But some of those goals were a) piss-easy tap-ins, and b) came at the end of matches we were already winning easily. That's not to dismiss them - they all count - but you can hardly use those stats to say Wash is a goal machine. Aren't Voronin's stats for us pretty similar?

[/quote]

I mentioned that earlier but to be honest, I'd 20 'piss easy tap-ins' a season (and it's a good sign anyways because it means he's got a striker's instinct in the box) ...
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35988.msg948755#msg948755 date=1253690656]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35988.msg948753#msg948753 date=1253690455]
I'm guessing not many of these were starts:

Appearances - 21
Goals - 5

Not bad.
[/quote]

No, not bad. But some of those goals were a) piss-easy tap-ins, and b) came at the end of matches we were already winning easily. That's not to dismiss them - they all count - but you can hardly use those stats to say Wash is a goal machine. Aren't Voronin's stats for us pretty similar?

[/quote]

I won't buy the 'piss-easy tap-ins' thing BM, he had to be there to tap it in, Owen used to do it, Kuyt does occasionally. It's basic stuff but it's the sign of a good striker when they follow everything in and constantly hound the goalkeeper for mistakes.

I get your point though, but one in four ain't bad for starters, and is Voronin as bad as everyone makes out?
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35988.msg948759#msg948759 date=1253690913]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35988.msg948755#msg948755 date=1253690656]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35988.msg948753#msg948753 date=1253690455]
I'm guessing not many of these were starts:

Appearances - 21
Goals - 5

Not bad.
[/quote]

No, not bad. But some of those goals were a) piss-easy tap-ins, and b) came at the end of matches we were already winning easily. That's not to dismiss them - they all count - but you can hardly use those stats to say Wash is a goal machine. Aren't Voronin's stats for us pretty similar?

[/quote]

I won't buy the 'piss-easy tap-ins' thing BM, he had to be there to tap it in, Owen used to do it, Kuyt does occasionally. It's basic stuff but it's the sign of a good striker when they follow everything in and constantly hound the goalkeeper for mistakes.

I get your point though, but one in four ain't bad for starters, and is Voronin as bad as everyone makes out?
[/quote]

I don't think either of them are *bad*. I just don't think they're Liverpool quality, even as squad players. Wash may yet prove me wrong - he is very young, still - but honestly, how many Prem first XIs would either of them get into?
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35988.msg948757#msg948757 date=1253690851]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35988.msg948755#msg948755 date=1253690656]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35988.msg948753#msg948753 date=1253690455]
I'm guessing not many of these were starts:

Appearances - 21
Goals - 5

Not bad.
[/quote]

No, not bad. But some of those goals were a) piss-easy tap-ins, and b) came at the end of matches we were already winning easily. That's not to dismiss them - they all count - but you can hardly use those stats to say Wash is a goal machine. Aren't Voronin's stats for us pretty similar?

[/quote]

I mentioned that earlier but to be honest, I'd 20 'piss easy tap-ins' a season (and it's a good sign anyways because it means he's got a striker's instinct in the box) ...
[/quote]

LTW, I'm a striker and most of *my* goals are piss-easy tap-ins, so I'm not dismissing them, as I already said. But considering the nature of the goals (fourth goal in 4-0 victory etc), I don't think 5 in 21 is exceptional.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35988.msg948763#msg948763 date=1253691184]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35988.msg948757#msg948757 date=1253690851]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35988.msg948755#msg948755 date=1253690656]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35988.msg948753#msg948753 date=1253690455]
I'm guessing not many of these were starts:

Appearances - 21
Goals - 5

Not bad.
[/quote]

No, not bad. But some of those goals were a) piss-easy tap-ins, and b) came at the end of matches we were already winning easily. That's not to dismiss them - they all count - but you can hardly use those stats to say Wash is a goal machine. Aren't Voronin's stats for us pretty similar?

[/quote]

I mentioned that earlier but to be honest, I'd 20 'piss easy tap-ins' a season (and it's a good sign anyways because it means he's got a striker's instinct in the box) ...
[/quote]

LTW, I'm a striker and most of *my* goals are piss-easy tap-ins, so I'm not dismissing them, as I already said. But considering the nature of the goals (fourth goal in 4-0 victory etc), I don't think 5 in 21 is exceptional.

[/quote]

It's not exceptional ... but it means he can score and the more I watch him, the more I realize he's full of confidence and is improving with regards to his physical play and ability in general. As I said, I see as being a very important squad member in a few years - not a 1st 11 kinda guy. But I hope he can better that
 
They wouldn't get in the top fours but is it that cut and dried?

We used to moan about the goals burden on Gerrard, we now have Torres and we have players who will collectively carry us, proven last season when Gerrard and Torres were out for lengthy spells. Not that I'm saying I've got the upmost faith in what we've got, but as a collection of players who'll offer a contribution, it's not that bad.

Kuyt and Yossi look nailed on to get at least 10 each (more on current form) and if the likes of Wash can contribute a handful then I think Rafa's done a good job of getting the most from what he's got, we're still (at present) one of the top scoring teams in England and we look alot more cohesive than we have in recent years.

I don't want to get on Houllier's case but games like last night were often full of fringe players and reserves who could barely pass straight. How many players did we have on the fringe of things that hardly looked like footballers? At least last night, for all it's typical nervousness showed that we do have players waiting to come in who are footballers capable of playing some attractive stuff.
 
N'gog did ok against Leeds, not fantastic, but rubbish either. He'd have no fucking hope playing upfront by himself in the premiership.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35988.msg948761#msg948761 date=1253691018]
I don't think either of them are *bad*. I just don't think they're Liverpool quality, even as squad players. Wash may yet prove me wrong - he is very young, still - but honestly, how many Prem first XIs would either of them get into?
[/quote]

I think he'd have a shot at the bottom sides like Pompey and Burnley.

I'd compare N'Gog to Jo in the Premiership. Both are young, tall, lanky #9 strikers that are expected to lead the line and score goals. One cost 20M, the other cost 1.5M. I know who I'd rather have.

I don't really understand why people are so down on him to be honest. He's still only 20 years old and has barely gotten a game for us, but whenever he does come on - even if it is just for a couple minutes - he shows real hunger to impress and that is underlined by the fact that he's grabbed a couple goals in the dying minutes when other attackers aren't that arsed.

N'Gog was a great punt in my book. He's the main man for the French U-21's, he's got obvious skill, obvious finishing ability and a pretty good starting point physique wise. Anyone would think we're talking about a duffer like Brouwer!
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=35988.msg948779#msg948779 date=1253693107]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35988.msg948761#msg948761 date=1253691018]
I don't think either of them are *bad*. I just don't think they're Liverpool quality, even as squad players. Wash may yet prove me wrong - he is very young, still - but honestly, how many Prem first XIs would either of them get into?
[/quote]

I think he'd have a shot at the bottom sides like Pompey and Burnley.

I'd compare N'Gog to Jo in the Premiership. Both are young, tall, lanky #9 strikers that are expected to lead the line and score goals. One cost 20M, the other cost 1.5M. I know who I'd rather have.

I don't really understand why people are so down on him to be honest. He's still only 20 years old and has barely gotten a game for us, but whenever he does come on - even if it is just for a couple minutes - he shows real hunger to impress and that is underlined by the fact that he's grabbed a couple goals in the dying minutes when other attackers aren't that arsed.

N'Gog was a great punt in my book. He's the main man for the French U-21's, he's got obvious skill, obvious finishing ability and a pretty good starting point physique wise. Anyone would think we're talking about a duffer like Brouwer!
[/quote]

Top post.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=35988.msg948779#msg948779 date=1253693107]
I don't really understand why people are so down on him to be honest. He's still only 20 years old and has barely gotten a game for us, but whenever he does come on - even if it is just for a couple minutes - he shows real hunger to impress and that is underlined by the fact that he's grabbed a couple goals in the dying minutes when other attackers aren't that arsed.

N'Gog was a great punt in my book. He's the main man for the French U-21's, he's got obvious skill, obvious finishing ability and a pretty good starting point physique wise. Anyone would think we're talking about a duffer like Brouwer!
[/quote]

Nail.On.The.Head

I'd venture a guess as to why people are down on him - we all seem to want to find some 16-20 year old to make an instant hit and when they don't, or aren't fantastic throughout every minute on the pitch, we get down on them and concerned ...
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35988.msg948766#msg948766 date=1253691770]


Kuyt and Yossi look nailed on to get at least 10 each
[/quote]

coming around to my thinking at last marky? 😉
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35988.msg948766#msg948766 date=1253691770]
They wouldn't get in the top fours but is it that cut and dried?

We used to moan about the goals burden on Gerrard, we now have Torres and we have players who will collectively carry us, proven last season when Gerrard and Torres were out for lengthy spells. Not that I'm saying I've got the upmost faith in what we've got, but as a collection of players who'll offer a contribution, it's not that bad.

Kuyt and Yossi look nailed on to get at least 10 each (more on current form) and if the likes of Wash can contribute a handful then I think Rafa's done a good job of getting the most from what he's got, we're still (at present) one of the top scoring teams in England and we look alot more cohesive than we have in recent years.

I don't want to get on Houllier's case but games like last night were often full of fringe players and reserves who could barely pass straight. How many players did we have on the fringe of things that hardly looked like footballers? At least last night, for all it's typical nervousness showed that we do have players waiting to come in who are footballers capable of playing some attractive stuff. [/quote]

I was thinking more or less the same last night mate.

It's now evident that not only our first XI has improved rapidly in the past years but also the squad in overall.

With Degen, Ngog, Aurelio, Babel, Kyrgiakos and Spearing all showing good signs last night - and having Agger and Aquilani back soon as well - things are starting to look bright.
 
If I was ngog I would go down the gym and put on a couple of stone of muscle. he isn't going to power past defenders so he needs to use his best asset (the ability to shield the ball) so he wins the first ball allowing others to finish the second ball. considering his build I thought he did an excellent job of holding off two big defenders yesterday.
 
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