New CB

[Hansern]

Think we really need to get in a new CB before the season kicks off. We've shipped goals left, right and centre during pre season, and the Greek isnt and shouldnt be a first teamer.

Carra is a year older, Skrtel has been injury plagued in pre season and Agger is, well, Agger.
Wilson, Kelly and Wisdom arent ready yet and the drop in quality when Agger/Skrtel is out is concerning.

We've been linked with Dann for ages now, and I think that could be a good signing. There was also a rumouron twitter today saying we've offered N'Gog + 9 mill for Cahill.

Either would be a step up in quality and could be a first team starter. Hopefully we can get a new man in place during the next week or so...

 

[Fabio]

hopefully we get cahill. i'm not overly wowed by him, but he is a strong CB with a lot of potential, and we need a powerful CB.

 

[Judge Jules]

I hope that Twitter rumour is true. Cahill at his best (and I'd trust Clarke to keep him there) would be a "wow" signing for me. Dann's a decent enough player but not in Cahill's class IMO.

 

[kingjulian]

 

[Ryan]

I'd prefer a left-back that isn't disabled.

 

[Frogfish]

Well as some of you have been able to actually see these pre-season games, where does the blame lie ?


Is it just fitness / sharpness ?
Does Carra look like he's on the wane ?
Did Agger make a difference (we still conceded three) ?
Were the goals against us from technical or observational mistakes ? Who made them ?


So do we need a new CB as a starter not a squaddie ? Does that mean Carra / Agger / Skrtel (injured I know) should be dropped to the bench / sold ?

 

[juniormember]

Or is it in part due to us not having our midfielders makIng the right movements and end up giving our oppositions an easy time against our defenders?
Over the last decade our defensive record has been at our best when we've had players specialized in the role, like Didi, Xabi (his positioning was top notch) and Mascher.

 

[LarryHagman]

Lurking on RAWK, someone started a thread at the weekend slightly concerned at our defensive showings in pre-season. It was immediately locked. Fortunately, the thread about how magnificently entertaining our pre-season has been is positively thriving.

 

[LarryHagman]

I should add that the locked thread was started before last night's game and there is now a new one asking whether it is ok to discuss any potential defensive hiccups we may be encountering.

 

[Rosco]

haha ... you gotta wonder

 

[Ossi]

We have been declining in the cb-department for a long time. Strange that we haven't adressed it properly.

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=46295.msg1373464#msg1373464 date=1312266959]
Lurking on RAWK, someone started a thread at the weekend slightly concerned at our defensive showings in pre-season. It was immediately locked. Fortunately, the thread about how magnificently entertaining our pre-season has been is positively thriving.

[/quote]

Christ. That's just Orwellion. I'd expect that from the Offal, but Rawk are not affiliated with the club, do they not realise that?

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46295.msg1373447#msg1373447 date=1312256896]
I'd prefer a left-back that isn't disabled.
[/quote]

We need a centre back more, we need both but we can cover left back better than we can centre back. We've got three right backs so it's a no brainer putting Johnson there for now, he's better than he is at right back anyway, he was fucking shit again last night on the right. Jack Robinson has looked good anyway, he looked good for the most part last night aswell.

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46295.msg1373497#msg1373497 date=1312271405]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46295.msg1373447#msg1373447 date=1312256896]
I'd prefer a left-back that isn't disabled.
[/quote]

We need a centre back more, we need both but we can cover left back better than we can centre back. We've got three right backs so it's a no brainer putting Johnson there for now, he's better than he is at right back anyway, he was fucking shit again last night on the right. Jack Robinson has looked good anyway, he looked good for the most part last night aswell.
[/quote]

Mark, I normally agree with you, but I just cant do this Johnson at LB thing. He is a right back, yes, he can do a job at LB, but he is better at RB.

Last season he started very poorly (as did all) & when shifted to the left through necessity (though I'm sure Kenny would tell you pure genius!) he recaptured his form as he had to remember how to play positionally.

The problem is he moved back to the right when we faltered as a team again, so he looked more exposed. He's not better at LB, if he was he'd have been playing his entire career there.

 

[Hansern]

We need both. Its as simple as that.

 

[Akakabooto]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=46295.msg1373509#msg1373509 date=1312271902]
We need both. Its as simple as that.
[/quote]

But you still can get away with having just an 'ok' player playing full back whereas you always need a dominant CB to challenge for titles.

CB should be by far the biggest priority at the moment. No contest.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=46295.msg1373506#msg1373506 date=1312271852]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46295.msg1373497#msg1373497 date=1312271405]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46295.msg1373447#msg1373447 date=1312256896]
I'd prefer a left-back that isn't disabled.
[/quote]

We need a centre back more, we need both but we can cover left back better than we can centre back. We've got three right backs so it's a no brainer putting Johnson there for now, he's better than he is at right back anyway, he was fucking shit again last night on the right. Jack Robinson has looked good anyway, he looked good for the most part last night aswell.
[/quote]

Mark, I normally agree with you, but I just cant do this Johnson at LB thing. He is a right back, yes, he can do a job at LB, but he is better at RB.

Last season he started very poorly (as did all) & when shifted to the left through necessity (though I'm sure Kenny would tell you pure genius!) he recaptured his form as he had to remember how to play positionally.

The problem is he moved back to the right when we faltered as a team again, so he looked more exposed. He's not better at LB, if he was he'd have been playing his entire career there.
[/quote]

Your thinking's not usually as hidebound as this, Foxy. It doesn't matter a stuff where the guy's played before now. If actual experience out there on the pitch shows he can do at least equally well in another position, he can and should be considered at least equally suitable for that new position.

Nor do I buy the coincidence theory to explain Magic's improvement on the left last season. It doesn't square with what you also (this time rightly) say about him having had to remember how to position himself over on that side. Fact is, playing on the left was itself a cause of his improvement. Leave him to it.

 

[Hansern]

[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=46295.msg1373516#msg1373516 date=1312272259]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=46295.msg1373509#msg1373509 date=1312271902]
We need both. Its as simple as that.
[/quote]

But you still can get away with having just an 'ok' player playing full back whereas you always need a dominant CB to challenge for titles.

CB should be by far the biggest priority at the moment. No contest.
[/quote]

You cant though. We havent got a left back. We have 2 promising youngsters, a right back that can be played out of position and a lad who can play there but is made of glass and put together with scotch tape.

If Enrique is available for 6 mill now, get it done. It will improve us no end.

CB is also a concern, but Agger, Sktrel and Carra are good centre backs. However age, injuries and shitness (Soto) results in us needing a CB aswell.

 

[Judge Jules]

Agger is good but injury-prone, Skrtel is good but dodgy in the air, Carra is good but aging. And there weren't many better than Magic at LB in the Prem last season.

 

[mark1975]

Yep, people are really missing the point. Carra is getting old and is also starting to have the odd niggle, Skrtel hasn't been without injury problems either and has his flaws, while Agger is permanently in and out. You only have to take one out of the equation to leave us horribly exposed, whereas with left back we've got enough to get over all but the worst injury crisis. And this stupid point about Johnson 'being a right back so must stay there' is well, stupid. He's been inconsistent there throughout his career, but had a good consistent spell in another role last season. We're not the first people to raise questions about his defensive quality at right back and we won't be the last, with good reason. Some right footed players are just more comfortable on the opposite flank, he won't be the first.

 

[Holle]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46295.msg1373558#msg1373558 date=1312276017]
Yep, people are really missing the point. Carra is getting old and is also starting to have the odd niggle, Skrtel hasn't been without injury problems either and has his flaws, while Agger is permanently in and out. You only have to take one out of the equation to leave us horribly exposed, whereas with left back we've got enough to get over all but the worst injury crisis. And this stupid point about Johnson 'being a right back so must stay there' is well, stupid. He's been inconsistent there throughout his career, but had a good consistent spell in another role last season. We're not the first people to raise questions about his defensive quality at right back and we won't be the last, with good reason. Some right footed players are just more comfortable on the opposite flank, he won't be the first.
[/quote]

Completely agree.

At some point many of us (me included) wanted us to go for Philipp Lahm for the LB spot despite him being right footed.

 

[Jack D Rips]

Mark. Calling people "stupid" for having an opinion is very unlike you. I would normally be in agreement with your opinions but on the the Johnson issue Im definitely of the opinion that whilst he can indeed do a good job at LB, I would much prefer a specialist one. Yes he was shit last night but it was his first outing of the season and to be honest I reckon he would have been equally shit at LB. Im with Foxy on this one.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46295.msg1373558#msg1373558 date=1312276017]
Yep, people are really missing the point. Carra is getting old and is also starting to have the odd niggle, Skrtel hasn't been without injury problems either and has his flaws, while Agger is permanently in and out. You only have to take one out of the equation to leave us horribly exposed, whereas with left back we've got enough to get over all but the worst injury crisis. And this stupid point about Johnson 'being a right back so must stay there' is well, stupid. He's been inconsistent there throughout his career, but had a good consistent spell in another role last season. We're not the first people to raise questions about his defensive quality at right back and we won't be the last, with good reason. Some right footed players are just more comfortable on the opposite flank, he won't be the first.
[/quote]

I still want a left back, so NEERRRRR!!!

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=46295.msg1373576#msg1373576 date=1312276940]
Mark. Calling people "stupid" for having an opinion is very unlike you. I would normally be in agreement with your opinions but on the the Johnson issue Im definitely of the opinion that whilst he can indeed do a good job at LB, I would much prefer a specialist one. Yes he was shit last night but it was his first outing of the season and to be honest I reckon he would have been equally shit at LB. Im with Foxy on this one.
[/quote]

I'm not calling people stupid, the notion that he can't be tried or more successful in another role because 'he's a right back', IS stupid. How many roles has Gerrard played? Or Carra?

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46295.msg1373580#msg1373580 date=1312277076]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46295.msg1373558#msg1373558 date=1312276017]
Yep, people are really missing the point. Carra is getting old and is also starting to have the odd niggle, Skrtel hasn't been without injury problems either and has his flaws, while Agger is permanently in and out. You only have to take one out of the equation to leave us horribly exposed, whereas with left back we've got enough to get over all but the worst injury crisis. And this stupid point about Johnson 'being a right back so must stay there' is well, stupid. He's been inconsistent there throughout his career, but had a good consistent spell in another role last season. We're not the first people to raise questions about his defensive quality at right back and we won't be the last, with good reason. Some right footed players are just more comfortable on the opposite flank, he won't be the first.
[/quote]

I still want a left back, so NEERRRRR!!!
[/quote]

So do I yer div, but we need a centre back first and foremost. We had issues last season and the season before at centre back, they're not going to go away. Even with Agger back last night (who I thought was excellent at both ends, bar that lunge where he let their player in on goal), we still conceded three.

 

[FoxForceFive]

I'm not saying he should stay there because he is a right back, I'm saying over his full career he has been better as a RB throughout his career, last season that may not have been the case but there were many issues surrounding that which make me believe that it wont be a permanent solution.

Add in to the equation Kenny's blatant desire to get left footed players in on the left, at high financial cost. To then deliberately leave us short a left back in order to play a right footed player at left back is the complete antithesis of that philosophy.

 

[FoxForceFive]

BTW, I'm on record as saying we will get in a CB & Lb before the season starts, as well as a striker should we get shut of Ngog, & I believe CB is priority, so I agree with your sentiment, however a left footed LB will be almost as intrinsic to our success as a CB will be.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46295.msg1373583#msg1373583 date=1312277202]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46295.msg1373580#msg1373580 date=1312277076]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46295.msg1373558#msg1373558 date=1312276017]
Yep, people are really missing the point. Carra is getting old and is also starting to have the odd niggle, Skrtel hasn't been without injury problems either and has his flaws, while Agger is permanently in and out. You only have to take one out of the equation to leave us horribly exposed, whereas with left back we've got enough to get over all but the worst injury crisis. And this stupid point about Johnson 'being a right back so must stay there' is well, stupid. He's been inconsistent there throughout his career, but had a good consistent spell in another role last season. We're not the first people to raise questions about his defensive quality at right back and we won't be the last, with good reason. Some right footed players are just more comfortable on the opposite flank, he won't be the first.
[/quote]

I still want a left back, so NEERRRRR!!!
[/quote]

So do I yer div, but we need a centre back first and foremost. We had issues last season and the season before at centre back, they're not going to go away. Even with Agger back last night (who I thought was excellent at both ends, bar that lunge where he let their player in on goal), we still conceded three.
[/quote]

I was messing 😉

I'm pretty sure we'll get a centre back before the end of august.

 

[Rosco]

Glen Johnson has never showed himself to be a good right back over the course of his career.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=46295.msg1373585#msg1373585 date=1312277325]
I'm not saying he should stay there because he is a right back, I'm saying over his full career he has been better as a RB throughout his career, last season that may not have been the case but there were many issues surrounding that which make me believe that it wont be a permanent solution.

Add in to the equation Kenny's blatant desire to get left footed players in on the left, at high financial cost. To then deliberately leave us short a left back in order to play a right footed player at left back is the complete antithesis of that philosophy.
[/quote]

I'm not sure Kenny is that stringent in his views Jon, he's switched players around enough and played right footers on the left (and left footers on the right, see Downing again).

No one is saying it's a sound longterm solution, but in the short term at least he's shown he can be successful there and if last season is anything to go by, he was better on the left than on the right. I agree with an earlier post, sometimes on your opposite flank it's easier to position yourself, on the correct flank you tend to go outward to get the ball onto your favoured foot, when on the left he's playing alot tighter to the centre back instead of leaving the gaping holes he often leaves on the right. That might be a tad simplistic, but the back four was alot more like the 'flat' back four of old when he was on the left and he still managed to break forwards when needed, while cutting out the daft errors that have dogged his career.