Manchester United v Liverpool Match Thread

[Hansern]

Thought we were much better with Keita, Fabinho and Chamberlain. They didnt get a sniff in after that.

We were poor and the game plan went out the window when they scored the first goal. Every man and his dog knew they would just sit back and defend.
But as Woland said, just move on and learn.

Says something about this team though, that even when everything is against you, yes everything, you still find a way to not lose.
It was a horrendous error to allow them the goal. Course it was. Foul all day long, and then VAR dont even see it as a clear error.
Awful.

 

[MaBigTip]

The reactions are predictably sensationalist in nature.

I wonder when we decided Salah couldn't play? I have a feeling it was late. Because if we don't have our front three we need a creative outlet in midfield, I think we would have started differently. Even though Henderson and Wijnaldum are capable of more, they don't compliment each other creatively...

We were still the better team out there and are unlucky not to come away with the win. The refereeing decisions (especially no yellow for time wasting) were ridiculously slanted when only a clear slant is expected. We finally paid for not being in form yet. It was a very winnable game if we weren't so lacking energy.

We got better in the game and we will be better next game for today... I am excited about what Keita could bring to the team. But I am a little annoyed that Elliot wasn't available with Shaq injured. I shouldn't be saying that, but it comes when Klopp doesn't want true squad depth.

 

[manwithnoname]

Keita is a metronome type player and our team clicking into his rhythm is how we scored. He created the space for Robinson and fed him. He was very good.

A metronome type player? That's what we've decided now? He doesn't score much, seems to lack the pace and power to beat his man, and doesn't really resemble - so far - anything like the attacking, creative Dynamo everyone told me we were getting.

So now he's another metronome player. Keep things 'Ticking over'. Death by football. Only people who understand football will know what he brings to the team- type player?

Oh great.

 

[MaBigTip]

In his short Liverpool career he most certainly has pressed magnificently, scored goals, beat men for fun on the dribble and created clear cut chances....BUT he is also a metronomic player. And we did click into his rhythm for a short time in that game and scored.

 

[Hansern]

Yeah, thought Keita was very positive when he came on. Should start on Wednesday.

 

[ibromurph]

It does once again ask some of those big questions we've all been discussing for ages;

The first-choice midfield can look horribly pedestrian at times.
We should not have to start a player like Divock Origi when Salah (or anyone gets injured)
We need alternative striking options to Firmino
Joel Matip is always only two poor games away from losing his place to Gomez
We can look a better team when Henderson isn't playing
Why did we spend 90m Chamberlain and Keita?
What has Shaqiri done wrong?

Our first choice midfield shouldn't be our first choice midfield in games like this.

Against world class bus parkers, like United, there's only 4 ways to break them down and score:

1) Go around the bus. This was not going to happen today in a 4-3-3 with their wing backs right on our full backs; with their CFs playing wide and not actually central. This forced Trent and Robbo to cross from deeper positions today.

2) Go over the bus. Again, they gave us no space in behind them and aerially they had more dominant players, so we couldn't go over it.

3) Go through the bus. For me, this was our best chance of scoring, altough it's obviously more risky to lose the ball in central areas. However, we simply did not have the technical players on the pitch to play this way. Well, not until Lallana, Ox and Keita all came on and we started finding little pockets of space, and had the players with the ability to take their first touch forward, move it quickly and carry the ball forward with a dribble. Gini did this once in the first half, when he skipped past 2 challenges, but as usual, he produced a shite shot from range. It's simply not in Henderson's
game to do this.

4) A set piece or a glaring mistake.

A team like City have the likes of Bernado, KDB, Silva, Aguero, Mahrez who are great technical players who love playing through bus parking teams. We seem to struggle, as we did against Sheffield United. It's an obvious weakness. And Klopp's solution to this seems to be to just continually out run the other team and hope for solution 4 to pop-up. Or to tire the opposition out so much that eventually options 1-3 opens up.

For me, he needs to recognise what another team is planning to do early and make brave calls like selecting a Keita/Ox in a game where we might need them to run with/beyond the ball to break opposition lines.

 

[Dreambeliever]

I tell you what was most surprising...

I didn’t hate that kit. Looked much better then expected and loved the white tops beforehand

 

[Markeh]

we need ratings to bitch about

Wasn’t impressed with Trent, Matip, Henderson or Bobby. Also didn’t rate Ox’s performance but maybe unfair to say about a lateish sub and i don’t remember Gini playing in the second half.

 

[MomoWASright]

I tell you what was most surprising...

I didn’t hate that kit. Looked much better then expected and loved the white tops beforehand

I really dislike it. It reminds me of an England strip.

 

[Portly]

I really dislike it. It reminds me of an England strip.

I don't understand why so many of us have a problem with this.

But then again, I didn't boo the National Anthem at Wembley like everybody else.

 

[FoxForceFive]

I tell you what was most surprising...

I didn’t hate that kit. Looked much better then expected and loved the white tops beforehand

It's fucking horrible. Like, I hate it, it's utterly shite.

It looks like a fucking England kit FFS.

 

[Hansern]

Liverpool have dropped points in 9 of their last 47 matches (19%)

Atkinson has reffed us 9 times in that period, in which we dropped point 4 times (44.4%).

 

[mwake]

Keita didn't do wonders in his 10-15 mins. But he helped the whole team control the ball better with him and Lallana on. We struggled with that for long periods.

Because he wasn't playing aimless long balls like the rest of midfied and defence lol...ox, Keita and lallana creativity helped...

 

[moron]

Our first choice midfield shouldn't be our first choice midfield in games like this.

Against world class bus parkers, like United, there's only 4 ways to break them down and score:

1) Go around the bus. This was not going to happen today in a 4-3-3 with their wing backs right on our full backs; with their CFs playing wide and not actually central. This forced Trent and Robbo to cross from deeper positions today.

2) Go over the bus. Again, they gave us no space in behind them and aerially they had more dominant players, so we couldn't go over it.

3) Go through the bus. For me, this was our best chance of scoring, altough it's obviously more risky to lose the ball in central areas. However, we simply did not have the technical players on the pitch to play this way. Well, not until Lallana, Ox and Keita all came on and we started finding little pockets of space, and had the players with the ability to take their first touch forward, move it quickly and carry the ball forward with a dribble. Gini did this once in the first half, when he skipped past 2 challenges, but as usual, he produced a shite shot from range. It's simply not in Henderson's
game to do this.

4) A set piece or a glaring mistake.

A team like City have the likes of Bernado, KDB, Silva, Aguero, Mahrez who are great technical players who love playing through bus parking teams. We seem to struggle, as we did against Sheffield United. It's an obvious weakness. And Klopp's solution to this seems to be to just continually out run the other team and hope for solution 4 to pop-up. Or to tire the opposition out so much that eventually options 1-3 opens up.

For me, he needs to recognise what another team is planning to do early and make brave calls like selecting a Keita/Ox in a game where we might need them to run with/beyond the ball to break opposition lines.

This post sums up every feeling I have had regarding our team, and it applies for last season to. Now many on here will keep going on and on about our 97 record points and what more we could have done. Well actually what we could have done is won any one of those games we drew where we should have won the game, and in each case it has been about not having enough to break through a stubborn defense. To be honest it was relief not to lose the game, but at the same time draws mean fuck all in this race and ultimately may prove to be as bad as a loss.

Point (3) about going through the bus is critical - and I think we need to be brave, and accept that we will concede but have more faith in our attack to do the damage with the support of a midfield that can break through and make those critical passes. We looked so good when when Keita, Lallana, and Ox were all on together - the passing and movement was so much faster - they could not cope with it, another 2-3 mins and we would have scored the winner.

 

[Halmeister]

United didn't really park the bus, though. Certainly not in the first half when we were at our most turgid.

 

[ibromurph]

United didn't really park the bus, though. Certainly not in the first half when we were at our most turgid.

Personally, I think their gameplan was to defend aggressively and counter in the space behind our FBs. They just had a lot more energy to press and be aggressive in the first half, as well as the legs to counter. We didn't have the technical ability in midfield to skip past the physical aggressive challenge or play through the midfield with quick combinations. Nor did we have a referee who blow up on fouls if we tried to protect the ball with our bodies.

Obviously, 2nd half they tired and they now had something to now protect and so they parked the bus. Almost worked.

 

[moron]

United didn't really park the bus, though. Certainly not in the first half when we were at our most turgid.

You are absolutely right they did not and that is where you need people with the skill to retain the ball and make the right runs and passing movements, you cannot do that with a Henderson, Gini, and Fabinio in midfield. It is too static, and it's going to sound utter cuntish but Henderson is not someone you can rely on when he is stuck in a tight spot and being pressed, the others have more ability to get out out of those tricky situations.

 

[ibromurph]

One thing I noticed Keita did do for our goal, was a no look reverse pass. He didn't throw his head the other way, like Ronaldinho would do, but he made a pass looking the other way.

Oxlade also occupied the half space which helped Robbo be on the outside and have the space to cross.

If you look carefully, Aaron Wan Bissaka actually follows Keita's head and body shape, so when he turns in centrally, AWB stops making his way out to Robbo and tucks inside to cover a ball into Ox. Then the ball is reversed by Keita and he's now too far inside to get out to block the cross that leads to toue goal.

Yeah it's a simple thing, but so, so, so effective when you have a player capable of a penetrating pass, but the vision to reverse it.


He shapes to play it to Robbo.


AWB is on his way out there...



He sees AWB going out there, so he slows down...


And turns back inside... AWB stops making his way out there...


He shapes to play the ball inside now... Ox is in between the lines and the half space.


Perreira and AWB now think Ox is the main threat... so they both tuck inside as Keita looks forward...



As he is about to strike the ball, his head is facing Ox and his shape looks like he's passing to him...


He then reverses it off his inside heel to Robbo... look how far tucked in AWB and Perreira are in now...


Plenty of space on the outside for Robbo to get in a cross.. too far a distance for AWB to cover... we cross and score.

 

[binomial]

Klopp doesnt help himself sometimes with hiscomments, really does come across as petulant.

Surely he knows the league by now that teams wont just play into our hands

 

[Mystic]

Really? I'll take that result, we were wank until the last 15 or so. We always seem to bottle it there

We were well below par, but they had two shots on goal, about 35% possession and scored a goal that shouldn't have stood. This whole line in the media that United deserved to win because they pressed us hard and got the crowd on their side is indicative of just how easily people misrepresent a certain style of performance as being good. It was one of our worst performances this season, yet we still controlled the tempo of the game, and had the best chances, we should have won but we were dickheads, and so was VAR.

 

[Malibu]

Hey @Malibu long time no see...

<3

 

[Dreambeliever]

We were well below par, but they had two shots on goal, about 35% possession and scored a goal that shouldn't have stood. This whole line in the media that United deserved to win because they pressed us hard and got the crowd on their side is indicative of just how easily people misrepresent a certain style of performance as being good. It was one of our worst performances this season, yet we still controlled the tempo of the game, and had the best chances, we should have won but we were dickheads, and so was VAR.

Wtf game were you watching?

We were awful for 70 mins

 

[ibromurph]

Wtf game were you watching?

We were awful for 70 mins

To be fair, we were awful for 70 mins against Sheffield United and won 1-0.

We've ground out a lot of games like this. Last year too.

Had the referee being consistent with fouls, I think we'd have won this game, awful performance and all, 1-0. However, at Old Trafford, it's our bogey ground and we need to always be at least 2 goals better than them to get a win. We weren't, so have to be content with a draw.

 

[Dreambeliever]

To be fair, we were awful for 70 mins against Sheffield United and won 1-0.

We've ground out a lot of games like this. Last year too.

Had the referee being consistent with fouls, I think we'd have won this game, awful performance and all, 1-0. However, at Old Trafford, it's our bogey ground and we need to always be at least 2 goals better than them to get a win. We weren't, so have to be content with a draw.

I agree regarding our form forever there is no guarantee we’d have won even if that goal was disallowed

 

[KopRed]

A metronome type player? That's what we've decided now? He doesn't score much, seems to lack the pace and power to beat his man, and doesn't really resemble - so far - anything like the attacking, creative Dynamo everyone told me we were getting.

So now he's another metronome player. Keep things 'Ticking over'. Death by football. Only people who understand football will know what he brings to the team- type player?

Oh great.

Not sure why you are so insistent on pinpointing Keita/Ox who only made cameos and were on the pitch when we scored.

If you have an agenda, start a new thread. Laying into Keita, who at best only had 10 mins, for his involvement in this match is just silly.

 

[rurikbird]

Not sure how this squares with the rule that a goal scored "with the help of a hand" will be ruled out even if handball is accidental.

 

[RedStar]

I may be in danger of forgetting something obvious here but when people talk about us having the better chances I struggle to think of any, bar the one Mané put on a plate only for Bobby.

It was a game dominated largely defences, they essentially played with 7 defensive players and forced us to try and pick a way through the middle, which we are not very good at. I think alot of teams are going to play this way against us for the rest of the season.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

Not sure how this squares with the rule that a goal scored "with the help of a hand" will be ruled out even if handball is accidental.

Clues :-

- Old Trafford
- Martin Atkinson

 

[King Binny]

Because he wasn't playing aimless long balls like the rest of midfied and defence lol...ox, Keita and lallana creativity helped...

 

[Dreambeliever]

Not sure how this squares with the rule that a goal scored "with the help of a hand" will be ruled out even if handball is accidental.

He got an advantage unfortunately