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Manchester United v Liverpool Match Thread

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When you are 1 nil down against a bunch of cunts at old toilet in the 83 minute.... I will take a draw no worries...

They defend really well and luckily for them got the first goal...

We did not play well until the last twenty minutes when the fact that they had been defending like fucking madmen began to wear them down and we swapped up our midfield.

It would have been glorious to win it right at the death but 25 points out of 27 available can hardly be whinged at...
 
To be fair, we were awful for 70 mins against Sheffield United and won 1-0.

We've ground out a lot of games like this. Last year too.

Had the referee being consistent with fouls, I think we'd have won this game, awful performance and all, 1-0. However, at Old Trafford, it's our bogey ground and we need to always be at least 2 goals better than them to get a win. We weren't, so have to be content with a draw.


Indeed it did seem like we were playing 12 at times didn't it. It is true that Mane does have a sometimes excessive propensity for going down under a challenge but nonetheless what did we get? 1 free kick in the entire game?

Even the foul on Origi was a clear foul and should have been given...

Odd.
 
Disappointing performance, we were dragged into a battle rather than playing a game to take an attack to them. Hindsight is great but a more attacking playing in that midfield 3 would have seen us win the game IMO, whether it be Ox or Keita for Hendo. Not Hendo's fault but he was occupying space he isn't natural in. Maybe Ox or Naby were deemed too much of a risk, but they changed the game when the came on (although you could also argue United were content to sit back at 1-0 up at that poiint too.).

Overall, a 1-1 at OT is a point gained but we should have found a way to win that. Ox was brought on relatively early for a Klopp sub, as he'd noticed we were being stopped on the wings and needed some force through the middle. It's just a shame we couldn't do that earlier, or even set up different and put Hendo back with Fabs and had Gini more attacking down the centre.
 
A metronome type player? That's what we've decided now? He doesn't score much, seems to lack the pace and power to beat his man, and doesn't really resemble - so far - anything like the attacking, creative Dynamo everyone told me we were getting.

So now he's another metronome player. Keep things 'Ticking over'. Death by football. Only people who understand football will know what he brings to the team- type player?

Oh great.

The black Lucas
 
I'm sick of the same discussion with the same players. Henderson is fine, but he just doesn't have the technical ability we need in a game like this. Keita has more in his locker in that respect but his general level has been below Henderson by some distance, and if we're showing fucking breakdowns about how he made a pretty simple pass into space, it says it all. Like oh my god how did he even see that pass under zero pressure, he really fucked them with his eyes.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see more of Keita, so does Klopp, and that's why he's been trying to really ensure his recovery. I'd love it if he forced his way into the side, but looking at him as the solution, right now, is just picking an unknown over a known.

Man U were compact, and our team is shit at making space. It's much better at using it. It's been the case for a while now.

We spent all our money to stay in the same place. Hopefully it'll be enough! I wouldn't bet on it.
 
I was looking for this wrt touches last night and couldn't find it:

Henderson - 26 passes completed in 71 minutes
Keïta - 22 passes in 8 minutes

While it is describing for Hendersons poor game it is also to be said that United had stopped their high pressing at the time Keita came on and they besically just pulled back every man and his dog to fill up their 6 men defence shileded by 2-3 deep midfielders, so most of the Keita passing went to short neat passings around their defence.

Having said that Henderson was really having a poor day yesterday. It is in these games, when facing a deep busparking team you need players being brave on the ball. We were to sloppy all over with both movement, touches and passing. Quite a few times Gini or Firmino managed to pull the ball away in between their pressure lines, but just didn't have any good alternatives for the pass. Then they had to try to keep the ball but were surrounded and gave it up. We didn't have any good answers for this. We should have expected it.

I also think we are a bit harsh. There were periods even in the first half where we managed to move the ball between us and we seemed to seize some momentum, but we couldn't find it. But all over we should have won that game.
 
It's not bravery with Henderson though is it? He'll find himself down the right quite a bit, and he's not fast enough to get behind the full back, and he's not skilled enough to find any other seam. He's a good passer and has decent technique. Does that describe what's required?
 
It's a good job it's only Burnley and Manure who play like this. We used to have to deal with Stoke and West Brom too

This is actually a valid point. Klopp seemed to be bitter or degrading with his comments that United allways just park the bus when we come. But it is the truth. So his comments should be seen in the light that he expects more from a hometeam with all the resources in the world. This is not the first time they do it. They did it throughout the Mourinho era also, so this is what Klopp has met every time at Old Trafford.
 
Klopp doesnt help himself sometimes with hiscomments, really does come across as petulant.

Surely he knows the league by now that teams wont just play into our hands
“Doesn’t help himself” with regards to what? What has he lost?

He made the point he wanted to on VAR, put a little shot in against Utd being negative against us for seasons now, and balanced it all off by saying else didn’t like our performance in the first half. The headlines are all about VAR and “did Utd park the bus” and not about the utter wank we served up in the 1st Half. Job done from his perspective.
 
This Clear and Obvious VAR thing is a load of bollocks. It leaves too much to interpretation. If a ref gets it wrong, let VAR overrule it.
 
I don't think we can blame VAR for conceding after losing possession seventy yards from goal. I thought we all knew that it's all only used for the new handball rule and offsides. I don't think any other fouls have been given or overturned all season.
 
We didn’t control the game, they had the best chances and we were extremely fortunate to not loss the game.

They had two shots on target, one was the goal, which shouldn't have stood, the other was a pea roller from 35 yards from McTomminay. Yet again Dreamy, you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
Klopp was wrong about VAR - he suggested the ref let it go as he knew that VAR would check it. That's clearly bollocks, as VAR only checks if a goal results and did the ref really think that a foul at the far end of the pitch would ultimately lead to a goal?

The fact is the ref just missed the foul or ignored it and then VAR failed to correct that wrong.

The "clear and obvious" thing is clearly stupid - it adds a whole new level of subjectivity, when VAR was meant to make things more objective, and the upshot is that VAR has never overruled a referee on anything other than offside or handball
 
Rashford had a great chance in the second as did Fred and Rashford wasted another great chance in the first half.

Great chances? You would expect Man Utd, the richest team in the world, to have some attacking moves in 90 mins. But these were not great chances. Flukes and halfchances.

I'll let this quote from RedCafe sum it up for you.

[bcolor=#fafafa]People saying the defence was solid.... this was only because the midfield and even forwards defended with them, to the detriment of our attack. Has been this way for years. Our defence is actually shit. We are playing with at least an 9-man defence and wonder why we’re not scoring. [/bcolor]
 
Klopp was wrong about VAR - he suggested the ref let it go as he knew that VAR would check it. That's clearly bollocks, as VAR only checks if a goal results and did the ref really think that a foul at the far end of the pitch would ultimately lead to a goal?

The fact is the ref just missed the foul or ignored it and then VAR failed to correct that wrong.

The "clear and obvious" thing is clearly stupid - it adds a whole new level of subjectivity, when VAR was meant to make things more objective, and the upshot is that VAR has never overruled a referee on anything other than offside or handball

Although that's the way rugby works, and it is so much better. He'll let something go but immediately communicate to the video ref "check for a forward pass/ high tackle/ whatever". It is so much better than this fucking stupid system they've brought into football.
 
They had two shots on target, one was the goal, which shouldn't have stood, the other was a pea roller from 35 yards from McTomminay. Yet again Dreamy, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Well sounds like every Media outlet agrees with me or else it’s just spin as you put it. Or maybe you are the one talking out of your arse.
 
I may be in danger of forgetting something obvious here but when people talk about us having the better chances I struggle to think of any, bar the one Mané put on a plate only for Bobby.

It was a game dominated largely defences, they essentially played with 7 defensive players and forced us to try and pick a way through the middle, which we are not very good at. I think alot of teams are going to play this way against us for the rest of the season.
I think that's what a lot of teams have been doing for the past two years ! This wasn't some footballing masterstroke by OGS just rinse and repeat a path already laid.
 
Oh well. May as well do some fucking RAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTINGS then.

More than a few of us saw this coming. So much hype, so much expectation; "the worst United side in a generation"; Injury-hit and depleted; Liverpool on an unstoppable march towards the title, with a flawless start to the season......really, what did anyone expect to happen? I was just relieved to get the point.

And a point was about as much as we deserved. We were fucking dreadful. Klopp might moan and bitch about VAR and United being defensive - much to Mourinho's amusement in the commentary box, as he quipped about Klopp's dislike of "the menu" - but it's his job to find a way around "the low block" which is apparently what we're calling "sitting back and playing defensive, counter-attacking football" now.

But it's accurate. If you sit a player on Fabinho, deny Firmino space and make our full-backs actually defend, we have to rely entirely on Mane or Salah, and we didn't even have Salah, who was badly missed. Our midfield is, as we all know, hard-working and disciplined, but almost entirely lacking in attacking creativity when denied time or obvious targets to hit (usually a player overlapping out wide). There's no magic, so we get into a gruelling war of attrition. And it didn't work. There was finally some creativity and movement when Klopp threw on Lallana, Keita and Chamberlain, and that duly got us the equaliser, but any opposition manager watching will have been taking plenty of notes.

Alisson (6) Not exactly over-worked on his return, had little chance with the goal. Nice to have the Big Beardy Grock back.

TAA (4) The full-backs were both made to do a bit of defending in the first half as Rashford and James kept running at them, and he looked ragged at times. There was less attacking to deal with as the game went on, but TAA's passing and crossing was all over the place like a pissed tramp's breakfast

Matip (4) Passing caused us problems early on, and then he was turned over by Rashford, so it was a game he won't want to remember. He kept playing it just too short, or too long, and looked like he was wearing clown boots at times as he tried to keep up with their attackers. Got better as the game went on, but that's because they stopped running at him.

Virgil (6) Probably our best player, even if he wasn't at his best, and actually seemed to look very slightly ruffled by Rashford on one or two occasions. His pace and mobility was vital and kept United to very few chances.

Robertson (6) Another who wasn't at his best, he was still more solid than TAA and also got more joy in attack, helping create the equaliser with a good low cross that (eventually) got to Lallana.

Fabinho (4) Terrible first half, and did not enjoy the attentions of Perreira, who is a limited footballer but has quick feet and can get about the pitch well: he just ran in straight lines up and down the middle of the pitch, annoying Firmino when he dropped deep, and Fabinho when he tried to come forward, nullifying both. Fabinho's usual aggression and passing were both undercooked and he looked ungainly and off-balance when he was passing (badly). Lost the battle.

Henderson (3) At his best, Henderson is like a chocolate Lab - a bit thick, but so energetic and full of fun. You can play fetch with him all day, and he'll come back wagging his tail with the ball. This game was the equivalent of throwing a bag of shit, and then beating him with a stick when he brought it back. He looked forlorn. He tried to find space and moved around the pitch (high, wide right, central), but his lack of guile and creativity was horribly exposed.

Wijnaldum (6) He was easily our best player in a turgid and wretched first half, even if his flashes of skill typically ended up with absolutely zero end product (I know he plays in a different position for Holland, but why can't he fucking shoot straight in a Liverpool shirt?). He went missing in the second half, though. <Like "is he still on the pitch?" missing

Origi (3) Fucking hell, this cunt couldn't trap a bag of fucking cement. He is so far away from being good enough to play for Liverpool, it's almost hilarious. At very best he can be your classic "impact sub" because he runs quite fast and if he has a swing at the ball in the box, he might score. But even then, the problem is that sometimes "impact subs" have to start games. Like this one. You can't be starting players like Origi if you want to win the title.

Mane (5) Had a goal disallowed, but that was about all he did. He seemed weirdly passive, even faced with that ancient horrible cunt Young and glacier-like slab-headed twat Maguire, Mane just didn't attack them - even if he could easily outpace both. Why? Why do you make me sad, Sadio?

Firmino (3) He's not in the side to score goals (thankfully), so I suppose it's hard to get too angry at his two timid half-hearted efforts, but there was fuck all else. His touch was as delicate as a crack-head rapist in a convent; he was passing to anyone but our players and his flicks and tricks were aimless and lazy. He didn't even do his usual shift in terms of workrate, and just plodded slowly around the pitch. Truly abysmal.

Subs:

Lallana (7) I'm not his biggest fan - is anyone? - but he at least, cliche alert, offered us something different. And scored the equaliser! So have an extra point.

Keita (6) Reading some of the comments you'd think Keita came on, tore United to shreds, made the equaliser and scored a screamer to snatch three points. But no, although apparently he done a clever "no-look" pass! Wow. What he did do was actually pass accurately and forwards, which in the context of everything around him, was actually quite impressive.

Chamberlain (5) I would have given him a 6, like Keita, because at least he had a decent shot just wide, and added a bit of impetus. But he's still a brainless twat, and he gets a point taken off for that fucking retarded pass late on that was so retarded, everyone watching immediately dropped one IQ point.
 
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