• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Lucas - Silly fouls thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Just curious - if Lucas was as good as some of you are making him out to be (I do rate him, but some are acting like he's the 2nd coming of Makalele), why has there been no interest in him bar Rafa @ Inter?

Surely - based on stats etc - some big club would have tried to pry him away from us?
 
He pisses on most others with those tackling stats.
Most others piss on him with anything other than those particular stats.

I like him a lot but sometimes wish he offers just that little bit more (and stops giving stupid fouls away).
It's not like he sits in his own half for the entirety of a game. When we're attacking he's 15-20 yards away from the penalty area and I just think if only he could only get a bit more Didi-esque and contribute more to the team we'd all be satisfied with him. I say Didi because he wasn't exactly magnificent going forward (apart from a few pile drivers) but he made some incisive passes and also knew exactly when to slow things down just behind the final third when we should, and when to quicken up the passes. Not asking Lucas to become a Gerrard in attack and Makelele in defence.

Could it be because Johnson and Enrique are bombing forward all the time?
 
Could it be because Johnson and Enrique are bombing forward all the time?
No, as I've said, he's often within 15-20 yards of the opposition penalty area when we're attacking. He doesn't stand there alongside the centre backs at the halfway line (usually).
 
Just curious - if Lucas was as good as some of you are making him out to be (I do rate him, but some are acting like he's the 2nd coming of Makalele), why has there been no interest in him bar Rafa @ Inter?

Surely - based on stats etc - some big club would have tried to pry him away from us?
Most teams probably prefer someone less one dimensional. Even the non-scoring Mikel will use his pace and wiz past a couple of players, create some space then pass to an attacker. Lucas isn't capable of that.

There are also plenty of examples of players rated by their clubs not getting any offers, like with us, Finnan, Didi, Sami (until he actually left on a free). I doubt anyone's made a big offer for Carrick at scum either. Mikel's not had any big money offers since the Chelski Scum tug of war.
 
Most teams probably prefer someone less one dimensional. Even the non-scoring Mikel will use his pace and wiz past a couple of players, create some space then pass to an attacker. Lucas isn't capable of that.

There are also plenty of examples of players rated by their clubs not getting any offers, like with us, Finnan, Didi, Sami (until he actually left on a free). I doubt anyone's made a big offer for Carrick at scum either. Mikel's not had any big money offers since the Chelski Scum tug of war.

Mikel's not that good mate ... That's why he's not moved on, though manager after manager (Ancelotti, Mourinho, Di Matteo, etc) have used him (Just showing this doesn't really show how good a player is, but perhaps that he is important to what a club is trying to do ... like Lucas for us).
 
You see, this is Lucas in a nutshell. I've just watched 3 games and he was piss poor for the majority of them, did his job satisfactorily for about 25 minutes of the 270. Nothing spectacular, did his job.

But now he's the 2nd best player in the League.

Footy is fucked.
 
Just curious - if Lucas was as good as some of you are making him out to be (I do rate him, but some are acting like he's the 2nd coming of Makalele), why has there been no interest in him bar Rafa @ Inter?

Surely - based on stats etc - some big club would have tried to pry him away from us?


Never apply logic to football, it never works. One could also ask why Luis Suarez, despite his lunacy, being one of the worlds most skilful and effective players only attracted offers from Arsenal and not other big clubs. Or why real Madrid decided to sell one of the worlds best players in Ozil to Arsenal. Or pay a trillion pounds for Gareth Bale. Or why clubs keep employing Harry Redknapp. Or why we saw fit to employ Roy Hodgson. Football is full of odd stuff.
 
Never apply logic to football, it never works. One could also ask why Luis Suarez, despite his lunacy, being one of the worlds most skilful and effective players only attracted offers from Arsenal and not other big clubs. Or why real Madrid decided to sell one of the worlds best players in Ozil to Arsenal. Or pay a trillion pounds for Gareth Bale. Or why clubs keep employing Harry Redknapp. Or why we saw fit to employ Roy Hodgson. Football is full of odd stuff.


Hmmm - fogget the managers (bad memories with the latter)
Suarez - his ban, his mental issues, the fee we were demanding, the fact only a few clubs could pay, and we didn't want to sell
Ozil - they weren't playing him (Ancelotti wasn't happy with him, and Mourinho wasn't subbing him off continually last year - with the 'manager theme' started by Wizardry).
Bale - time will tell why they paid so much
 
Hmmm - fogget the managers (bad memories with the latter)
Suarez - his ban, his mental issues, the fee we were demanding, the fact only a few clubs could pay, and we didn't want to sell
Ozil - they weren't playing him (Ancelotti wasn't happy with him, and Mourinho wasn't subbing him off continually last year - with the 'manager theme' started by Wizardry).
Bale - time will tell why they paid so much


That's just excuses not logic.

spock-300x263.jpg
 
He was all over the place and not in a good way.
Gerrard's England performances should never be used in any evaluations of his ability; he has played for well over 10 years as part of a very dysfunctional midfield that usually lacks any cohesion or semblance of authority. Also, he and Lampard have hardly ever played well together (I think Lampard also played) and I reckon Roy Hodgson tactical brief was sufficiently inept as to leave Gerrard et al bereft of support, options, and most importantly a Plan B.
 
That's just excuses not logic.

Uuuuh ... no ... I understand why no one was willing to risk big money on Suarez - it makes sense, and yet, it is understandable why we wanted to keep him (his talent, sending out a message to our players, fans etc) ... and yet, I'll understand if we bin him off in January ... It's not about 'emotion' ...

I don't really care much about Ozil or Bale, they are both excellent players ... Madrid weren't playing Ozil (I guess with 'managers selecting (or not selecting) players,' that doesn't work (Ozil) ?) so selling him wasn't considered a problem (Isco is fantastic, and Modric is a fine substitute) ... No emotion there ... and as for Bale, no clue ... Perhaps because he was voted the best player in England by his peers etc and they wanted him as he can add from one flank what Ronaldo does on the other (if you watched the game against Villareal, they were alternating wings non-stop) ...Yet again, no emotion.

Nice to have you back on the site.
 
So we're agreed then. There is no logic.

Not really - there is logic ... you're just not privy to information that they are (why would Ancelotti and Mourinho both not be keen on a player like Ozil?, why did Manure offer 150 million for Bale?) ... clubs make bad decisions, yes, but that doesn't mean there's no logic behind them! 🙂
 
He pisses on most others with those tackling stats.
Most others piss on him with anything other than those particular stats.

You are wrong he pisses over pretty much all others in the league with the stats required for a dm. Tackling, passes, passes complete, interceptions, clearances and the amount of times he was dribbled past. The stat that he is poor at is fouls against. Where he is bang average.
 
This was Rodgers on Lucas last season just after the injury:

“I have to say, I’ve only been in the job a short period of time and when I first arrived everyone told me how special Lucas was as a player and a character, and in reality he’s been even better than that when I’ve met him.

He is the ultimate professional and he is going to be a brilliant player for me in my career here at Liverpool and I’m looking forward to seeing him fully fit. I know every day of his life he is fighting hard to get there, and not only is he a top footballer but a great person.

“[The injury] was bitterly disappointing because I’ve got to say he’s been one of the players that [when] I’ve come in he was really excited about this way of working. He understands totally the ideas of what I’m trying to implement, so for him this was going to showcase his qualities even more. He’d worked his whole way through pre-season, he was absolutely brilliant and he’s gone over done all the hard miles, the hard graft, got himself fit, or nearly fit and then all of a sudden he pulls right fem up here.

It was a big blow because he’s one of the disciples. I would say he understands totally what we’re doing; he’s been loving the work by all accounts and so to lose someone of that respect within the group as well is obviously difficult.

“How’s he doing at the moment? We’ve obviously kept in contact he’s been at home for a bit because he can’t do a great deal we’ve had people going round and giving him that little bit of work. He has good and bad days, because he’s had a long time out he’s worked hard to come back and now he’s out again. But the idea for him, what I’ve said to him, what I’ll do we’ll keep his spirits up.

“I’m going to use him to also go out and look at some games for me because he’s tactically very good, he’s someone I’ll get to go with my analyst and look at some games to make sure tactically he still stays in the game, because that’s important if you’ve three months out you think, (blows), you know.

He sounded so positive about Lucas then but he's not said much since the player returned. Maybe he's just happy with how he's playing, but it seems a bit anti-climactic after all that raving a year ago.
 
This was Rodgers on Lucas last season just after the injury:



He sounded so positive about Lucas then but he's not said much since the player returned. Maybe he's just happy with how he's playing, but it seems a bit anti-climactic after all that raving a year ago.


Anti-climatic for who? Whoscored have him rated as the second best player in the league so far this season.
 
I just mean that Rodgers couldn't stop talking about him as his kindred spirit and disciple, saying how he'd come back and be his voice on the pitch, and now he doesn't mention him. As I said, that probably just means he's contented.
 
It's a pity the ones who harp on about silly fouls aren't taking the time to catalogue them here.

Anyway, since Lucas has picked up far more yellow cards in our opening fixtures than he normally does, that has become another stick to beat him with.

So let's have a look at some DM's and their average minutes played per yellow card received (career league matches):

Tiote - 207
Cattermole - 214
Busquets - 275
De Jong - 283
Alonso - 305
Flamini - 318
Fellaini - 328
Masch - 329
Parker - 332
Lucas - 352
Hamann - 352
Makelele - 461 (beast)

And a snapshot of DM's last season:

midfield-enforcers-ranking-stats.png

Table-Key-Midfield.png
 
Not so good this season. Look, he's a good player who is clearly getting back to his best, but he's suspended after six games, five yellows in six matches, and no charts and career comparisons are going to alter that fact. He needs to improve this part of his game.
 
Not so good this season. Look, he's a good player who is clearly getting back to his best, but he's suspended after six games, five yellows in six matches, and no charts and career comparisons are going to alter that fact. He needs to improve this part of his game.


No argument from me on that.
 
If Rodgers is bringing back part time helpers like Fowler and McManaman, he'd be wise to bring in Molby or Whelan or Hamman to work the odd session with Lucas. Just a couple of sessions with one of them would surely help him.
 
Not so good this season. Look, he's a good player who is clearly getting back to his best, but he's suspended after six games, five yellows in six matches, and no charts and career comparisons are going to alter that fact. He needs to improve this part of his game.


That is true. I do think at least three of them were very harsh, but he does have to watch that side of his game.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom