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Liverpool 2.0 or 1.5?

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mwake

mwake

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I have never been fully convinced of this new version of the Liverpool team, even when there was talk of the QUAD.

And for this reason, I'm also scared about Klopp leaving. Is it that this team is decent or is being propped up to look as good as it does because Klopp has these amazing superpowers at elevating players to players way above their real levels?

For example, with players like Gravenberch, Nunez and Gakpo I feel like Klopp has dropped a fart and is trying to pretend that it wasn't him. I'm not convinced with those three players at all but they form a major part of our attacking future.

Hopefully, Arnie has the stones to come in with a breath of fresh air make some big decisions to clear out the deadwood and also make big decisions that he will need to. Do we persist with Darwin Gakpo and Gravenburch or do we try and move some of them on?
 
Great post. I have a feeling Arne will get more out of these players. The manager has to be that guy with our budget level for players.

Let's face it. Gravenberch, Nunez and Gakpo are not world beaters. But the best teams don't always have 11 of them
 
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Looking forward to scrambling for 4th again. Nothing made me feel.more alive as a fan than the utopia of scraping 4th

I presume that's our aspirations here, yes?
 
I'm not sure. I think they are higher. I am guessing but I think the new possible manager likely thinks higher too.
 
Tbh I'm just looking forward to not having (hopefully) to read about a fresh injury every other week.

Less intense training sessions, a few more hours if not an extra days rest between games.

I look forward to seeing a new formation for the first time in 9 years.
I look forward to the new guy building a team to dominate and not focus on building around 1 player.
I look forward to seeing what type of new signings we make with a completely new structure in place.
I look forward to listening to a calm, cool and collective manager post match for a change and not always feeling like the world is against him.
& I look forward to seeing how the team overcomes and adapts to the challenges post the Klopp era.

I know there isn't much love for the Dutch around here but there are some brilliant Dutch players about, Mats Wieffer being 1....love Slot to stamp his mark down with his first action to sign this lad.
 
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Ali
Frimpong Konate Virgil Robbo
Wieffer Mac
Szobo Trent Nunez
Openda

Maybe Szobo and Trent can interchange or even Mac and Trent.

Frimpong Wieffer Openda in.

Carvalho Morton Sepp all part of the squad as HG.

Listen to offers for Harvey Diaz Mo, maybe Kelleher and Gomez too.

No new CB as I believe Quansah is good enough to challenge Ibou to partner Virgil and Sepp should get a chance to be the 4th CB and see how that goes until Jan.
 
mwake said:
I have never been fully convinced of this new version of the Liverpool team, even when there was talk of the QUAD.

And for this reason, I'm also scared about Klopp leaving. Is it that this team is decent or is being propped up to look as good as it does because Klopp has these amazing superpowers at elevating players to players way above their real levels?

For example, with players like Gravenberch, Nunez and Gakpo I feel like Klopp has dropped a fart and is trying to pretend that it wasn't him. I'm not convinced with those three players at all but they form a major part of our attacking future.

Hopefully, Arnie has the stones to come in with a breath of fresh air make some big decisions to clear out the deadwood and also make big decisions that he will need to. Do we persist with Darwin Gakpo and Gravenburch or do we try and move some of them on?
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We’ve been let down by a few players this season, especially at times where it has been easier to stick it in the net than miss. Also at the back, silly mistakes have hit us hard. We also seem to have had our confidence knocked by horrendous decisions. After Spurs we should’ve had a siege mentality going into every game.I know other sides have similar with misses and VAR, but we are on another level. We could be looking to have been robbed out of another league title.

I wouldn’t go as far as 2.0 but I think we are further along than 1.5.
Fabio said:
Looking forward to scrambling for 4th again. Nothing made me feel.more alive as a fan than the utopia of scraping 4th

I presume that's our aspirations here, yes?
Click to expand...
We’re winning the league muthafuckers.
 
mark1975 said:
Hopefully he puts Trent in midfield, for starters.
Click to expand...

I would love to see Trent's talent well utilized, but I also need to see Trent working and being competitive and being aggressive and doing the grunt work at times. There is more grunt work to be done as a deeper midfielder than there is where he's been playing, and he hasn't shown full application there. There needs to be so much more development than just hitting passes.
 
Gravenberch didn’t suit Tuchel and he hasn’t worked with Klopp. I’d say he’s on borrowed time.

Gakpo however I see shining
 
I get that finding a Mane, Firmino and Salah isn't easy and is a generational thing. But also I feel the club could have done much better than Nunez and Gakpo and failed experiment Gravenburch.

West Ham's Kudus and Elise are steps up for me talent-wise and could have been gotten for cheap prices a while ago.

Obviously winning the CL and PL was awesome but it was also when Klopp started slowly messing up. We should never have bought thaigo at the expense of buying a proper replacement/backup for Thaigo.
 
I think it's clear we have the base for a title winning team but also that we are still short of a few components that 3-4 high quality Summer signings may solve. The likes of Gravenberch, Nunez and Gakpo in our side gives depth. They are a little underated on here - I put that down to frustration with the way the season has petered out.

Take the 7 in the top bracket, add in 2 starters in the Summer, take 2 from the 2nd bracket below and there's your starting XI with another 7-8 very good backups and a couple of youngsters coming through. Most teams don't reply on more than 17-18 core players and we'll have that and more.

These are world class players on their day though even WC players have off days (esp. coming back after injury) and some lack consistency (looking at you Szobo).
Ali
VvD
Konate
Trent
Macca
Jota
Szobo

These are already high quality PL players good enough for most teams or to bulk out a top team but good training could improve them further and, bar Endo, they are still young enough to improve.
Quansah (yeah really rate him)
Bradley (rate him too)
Diaz
Endo
Nunez (depending on how he's played and esp. if he can be taught to improve his finishing & offsides - other aspects of his game are very good).
Gakpo
Jones

Good squad players that add depth but are borderline and could be replaced by Slot.
Robbo
Gomez (not good enough as a CB but is a fine allrounder - however if we double up with specialists in all positions then I don't see the need to retain him. Klopp liked players to be flexible, that could have been a weakness in the team. Too many all rounders and not enough specialists).
Elliott ( I just can't find a position for him)
Gravenberch (I still feel there is a lot to work with here)

Young players that could step up into the squad and be worthy of a top team
Danns
Bajcetic

These will all be gone this Summer IMHO.
Tsimikas
Thiago
Matip
Adrian
Salah
 
My biggest concern is Edwards, because this all rests on him. We're going to find out if he truly was some recruitment genius, or it was all Klopp. People underestimate Klopp's role in our recruitment success - one of the most knowledgeable managers in the world when it comes to talented players across Europe.

People forget that Edwards' signings pre-Klopp included the likes of Markovic, Aspas, Alberto, Sakho, Ilori, Assaidi, Moreno, Manquillo. Some good signings like Coutinho, Sturridge, Firmino and some interesting ones like Can and Origi. But the overall record was very spotty.

It's only Klopp's crystal clear vision, his wonderful instinct with players and his player development skills that turned around our recruitment game.

To be fair to Edwards, I felt his time under Rodgers was marred by a number of signings which were forced on him by Rodgers - Allen, Borini, Lovren, Lallana, Lambert, Benteke, Mignolet.

We'll see what he's truly made of because from the looks of it, he's been given carte blanche to shape this squad as he sees fit.
 
All those signings were early in his own Liverpool career and things improved as he got more experienced. They then went to shit once Klopp allegedly took more control. They got worse when the whole structure was removed giving more power to Klopp.

I’m probably going to wrong here but Edwards isn’t in charge of recruitment is he? It is a group of new individuals.
 
dmishra said:
People forget that Edwards' signings pre-Klopp included the likes of Markovic, Aspas, Alberto, Sakho, Ilori, Assaidi, Moreno, Manquillo. Some good signings like Coutinho, Sturridge, Firmino and some interesting ones like Can and Origi. But the overall record was very spotty.
Click to expand...
Weren't these mainly pre 'metrics'?
 
MomoWASright said:
All those signings were early in his own Liverpool career and things improved as he got more experienced. They then went to shit once Klopp allegedly took more control. They got worse when the whole structure was removed giving more power to Klopp.

I’m probably going to wrong here but Edwards isn’t in charge of recruitment is he? It is a group of new individuals.
Click to expand...

They improved at exactly the same point Klopp arrived.
 
dmishra said:
My biggest concern is Edwards, because this all rests on him. We're going to find out if he truly was some recruitment genius, or it was all Klopp. People underestimate Klopp's role in our recruitment success - one of the most knowledgeable managers in the world when it comes to talented players across Europe.

People forget that Edwards' signings pre-Klopp included the likes of Markovic, Aspas, Alberto, Sakho, Ilori, Assaidi, Moreno, Manquillo. Some good signings like Coutinho, Sturridge, Firmino and some interesting ones like Can and Origi. But the overall record was very spotty.

It's only Klopp's crystal clear vision, his wonderful instinct with players and his player development skills that turned around our recruitment game.

To be fair to Edwards, I felt his time under Rodgers was marred by a number of signings which were forced on him by Rodgers - Allen, Borini, Lovren, Lallana, Lambert, Benteke, Mignolet.

We'll see what he's truly made of because from the looks of it, he's been given carte blanche to shape this squad as he sees fit.
Click to expand...

You forget the transfer committee’s low point. Their data somehow suggested Mario Balotelli was a good idea…
 
Tinto said:
You forget the transfer committee’s low point. Their data somehow suggested Mario Balotelli was a good idea…
Click to expand...
In their defence, it was a low cost high risk strategy. It could have been good if we didn't also have borini and Lambert stinking out the place too
 
Fabio said:
In their defence, it was a low cost high risk strategy. It could have been good if we didn't also have borini and Lambert stinking out the place too
Click to expand...

I doubt it would ever have been good because of Mario’s mental health issues unfortunately.

It wasn’t fair to expect Rodger to deal with that on top of the job he already had
 
Tinto said:
They improved at exactly the same point Klopp arrived.
Click to expand...
Coutinho and Firmino were great signings. As was Origi for what he did.

Things gradually improved prior to Klopp which enabled the side to evolve.

Klopp came in asking for a particular vision to be enacted. As a team they brought in mane and Salah (who wasn’t Klopp’s first choice) and we became world champions.

With a proper strategy in place I can see us succeeding again. We just need to stick to the plan.
 
MomoWASright said:
Coutinho and Firmino were great signings. As was Origi for what he did.

Things gradually improved prior to Klopp which enabled the side to evolve.

Klopp came in asking for a particular vision to be enacted. As a team they brought in mane and Salah (who wasn’t Klopp’s first choice) and we became world champions.

With a proper strategy in place I can see us succeeding again. We just need to stick to the plan.
Click to expand...

Yeah, our transfers were the best when Klopp and Edwards were working together
 
I'd argue our recruitment peak was when Klopp and Edwards worked in perfect synergy - basically something like 2016-2020. Edwards brought the data, Klopp brought his tremendous vision and instincts.

Differences arose (allegedly) over the Henderson and Milner contract renewals, and the fact that Edwards wanted to bring in players directly from the South American market (the likes of Enzo and Bounanotte have been mentioned on Twitter), but Klopp (and Lijnders) didn't agree.

Anyway I don't think our recruitment ever fell off even post Edwards. Mostly the signings have been good - Jota, Konate, Macallister, Szoboszlai, Gakpo all good buys. Even Nunez is perfectly fine as a purchase. The trouble 2021 onwards wasn't bad recruitment inasmuch as it was the extremely frugal level of investment by FSG (enabled perhaps by a stubborn Klopp who was happy to hold on to older players).
 
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