Lessons from Paris

[rurikbird]

First of all, this team of ours is a damn great team. Yes, we didn’t win either of the 2 major trophies this season, but we came incredibly close and were the only team with a genuine chance to win all 4. Klopp was like a great F1 pilot getting every last drop of performance out of his car, but in the end it just ran out of fuel - you could sense it in the last few weeks. Klopp’s message in the post-match press-conference was “we will come again” and I fully believe him.

All that said, let’s try to imagine what a potential quadruple (or a treble - I’m not too greedy) winning LFC team could look like in the future and where we fell short.

• Protection against the counter. Klopp said that until the goal our midfield sat too deep, wary of Real’s counter-attacking threat. The solution to this are 1-2 players with great recovery pace and defensive awareness, basically performing the Kyle Walker role for us. Hendo can be that player, but he doesn’t have the legs to do it for the whole season - we need fresh blood and energy (more on that later). Konate, who will surely be our first-choice RCB next season and keep growing in confidence and stature and possibly Gomez at RCB or RB at times could also help.
• Fresh blood in midfield - we’ve talked about this a lot already throughout the season. I think we need to replace both Ox and Keita and buy 1-2 midfielders with defensive tenacity and physicality to complement Fabinho, Hendo and Thiago. We have never replaced the physicality of Wijnaldum and that needs to be addressed (BTW I am less convinced than some others that a runner/dribbler type midfielder is a must. Our forwards can take turns performing that role. For me defensive/physical aspect of the midfield is a bigger priority.)
• Cover for Trent - hopefully Neco can step up after his successful loan spell. 5 subs gives Klopp a lot more flexibility.
• Sort the forwards situation. At this point we have no certainty who if any among Salah, Mane, Firmino and Minamino will leave. Jota and Diaz will be here obviously and Carvalho has joined. Maybe Kaide Gordon can start to be a factor - those forwards/wingers tend to grow up fast… I think with Bobby’s gradual decline we’re a bit starved for a player who can consistently deliver the last pass - not sure what’s the solution to that (other than buying Harry Kane).

Any other thoughts?

 

[Dreambeliever]

Uefa are c$nts
French police are c$nts
Fan always get screwed

 

[peekay]

• Life is not fair. Really really not fair. I will be in a better mood in a day or two but as great this season has been, I am finding it difficult to process the way it ended. I am actually putting in the hours today for work to avoid thinking about sports.
• Kudos to @Brizzle, @momoWASboss, and @Halmeister for their roles.
• Agree with you on the midfield. We need quality and physicality there.
• Cover for Trent - I think the young right-back from Aberdeen will be the Trent cover. Not Neco.
• Regarding forwards. Feeling particularly annoyed with Salah. Spend the season with him and his agent spouting at every available opportunity that is among the world's best and puts in that performance in the final. Not that others played well but when you keep on pointing fingers at the club at not paying him what he is due, these are the type of games where you make your mark.

 

[StevieM]

I always enjoy reading your posts Rurik - always so thoughtful.

I’ve been thinking about this for weeks, but wanted to wait till the season finished, but it’s not really related to what we learnt just in Paris - it’s what we learnt all season and where we’re at now.

First things first - I think we start by looking at the entire squad and working on the basis if no-one left this summer (including Origi), then where are we lacking.

Then we move on to who’s definitely leaving and how do we replace them.

Then we look at who might leave - before looking at who we should actively move on.

For me, it’s clear, the one area we are lacking is a right-sided attacker to back up Salah - regardless of the stay/go scenario - because we’re trying to squeeze too much out of him.

Second to that is a holding midfielder to back up Fabs - Morton isn’t ready.

We know Divock’s definitely going - but he seems to be the only one so far - do we need to bring in another central forward to replace him - probably not - unless one of the other forwards departs.

There are question marks over Gomez, Nico, Milner and Ox as to whether they’ll stay - Gomez probably the most important to keep, but also the one most coveted by others.

Ox, I figure he stays another year and leaves on a free unless someone actually bids for him - which feels unlikely.

I wouldn’t underestimate how useful he can be to the squad in covering multiple roles in midfield and the forward line - he’s not a disruptive influence, so I’d probably not rush into selling him.

The one I’d probably look to sell is the one that infuriates me the most - Keita. He can be a cracking player at times, but his inconsistency does my head in.

So…. bring in a right-sided attacker and defensive minded midfielder, then sell Kieta and replace him with another attacking midfielder - although arguably Carvalho is already that player.

Anything over and above that would be based on whether any other player asks to leave and the Mane/Salah contract situ.

I’d give Bobby a new contract too - pace was never his thing, so I reckon he can do a squad job for a few more years.

 

[RedStar]

I think we have a settled way of playing which is difficult to stop but ultimately it means some teams/managers will work you out because they know what you're going to do.

It's been an incredible season regardless of how disappointing that was tonight but even in hindsight I'm not sure what we could have done differently. Thiago clearly wasn't 100% and that showed but would Keita have done better? We generally played well and could have won it. A few players let the game pass them by and we looked flat towards the end as the effects of a long season told on us against a much fresher Madrid side.

We need an extra gear in midfield, we've been missing that for some time. How we rebuild the midfield without upsetting the balance I don't know but it feels like Hendo and Thiago cannot be asked to play 40 plus games a year.

 

[StevieM]

Maybe the loss will hurt enough to drive them to be unbeatable next season.

I don’t think we need major changes or surgery - I expect Harvey & Jones to play a bigger part next season - we just need to add a couple of options and we can continue to challenge on every front.

 

[peekay]

For me, it’s clear, the one area we are lacking is a right-sided attacker to back up Salah - regardless of the stay/go scenario - because we’re trying to squeeze too much out of him.

 

[DHSC]

Trent and Salah need to be rotated out more to preserve their mental and physical fitness.

 

[StevieM]

 

[ibromurph]

Can't expect the likes of Mane, Salah, Trent and Robbo to play 65 games per year (+Afcon) and not be knackered.

Also, urgent quality needed in the midfield to rotate with our current 3. Keep Jones as 6th Choice, sell every other centre mid (even Millie). Need better 3rd and 4th options to rotate with Hendo/Thiago as 8s.

 

[Frogfish]

I think we have a settled way of playing which is difficult to stop but ultimately it means some teams/managers will work you out because they know what you're going to do.

Sorry but frankly that's very cliched. Every team has a style, whether it's Leeds, Bayern, City, Chelsea, Madrid or us. Everyone knows how they play and there's nothing really to work out bar coming up with a plan in one or two areas which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't depending on how individual players perform on the day.

We didn't lose yesterday because we were 'worked out' and Ancelotti came up with a plan that negated our style ... we lost because of a world class keeper at the top of his game. The 24 shots with 9 on target just highlights that.

Even the goal we conceded should have been irrelevant had we just hit our Xg (not really wanting to throw this in but it does prove a point) of 2.14 to 2.6 depending on which authority you are using.

 

[Frogfish]

All that said, let’s try to imagine what a potential quadruple (or a treble - I’m not too greedy) winning LFC team could look like in the future and where we fell short.

• Protection against the counter. Klopp said that until the goal our midfield sat too deep, wary of Real’s counter-attacking threat. The solution to this are 1-2 players with great recovery pace and defensive awareness, basically performing the Kyle Walker role for us. Hendo can be that player, but he doesn’t have the legs to do it for the whole season - we need fresh blood and energy (more on that later). Konate, who will surely be our first-choice RCB next season and keep growing in confidence and stature and possibly Gomez at RCB or RB at times could also help.

More thoughts later but on this point : no Hendo isn't that man. He isn't fast enough and he's now the other side of the hill so going forward I doubt we'll see as much of him (esp. if we sign a 'starting' midfielder this Summer).
Also TAA, Robbo, Konate & VvD are going to be the de facto starting backline (with Ali behind and Fabs in front) for the foreseeable future so discussion of a 'Walker-type' pacy defensive player is moot. The defence is in place and only player improvement or tactics will change.

The main issue is that the Quad (FAC, LC, PL & CL) has never been done for a reason. We shouldn't be pushing our players to the extreme (63 games) trying to achieve it. If our squad can take us to LC / FAC finals then fine, then bring out the first teamers, but our priority must be the PL and CL and arguably this season we could have had both with 6-12 fewer games in the legs of many of those first teamers.

 

[Best Believe It]

The main issue is that the Quad (FAC, LC, PL & CL) has never been done for a reason. We shouldn't be pushing our players to the extreme (63 games) trying to achieve it. If our squad can take us to LC / FAC finals then fine, then bring out the first teamers, but our priority must be the PL and CL and arguably this season we could have had both with 6-12 fewer games in the legs of many of those first teamers.

It might have been doable had we not been pushing for the title all the way to the end. Being a successful team means you tend to play more games, but we didn't have the luxury of winning the title earlier and be able to allow a few players to ease off. We were shattered in the last few games and that's not easy to shake off before a final.

I said this during the game but we didn't have anyone on the bench I felt could come on and change things. Too many players arriving at this point in poor form, and others - Jones, Chamberlain, Keita in particular - not being the sort of players you can trust to come on and change things. I'm probably being harsh on Curtis Jones but I think he should be showing more at this point.

We need new players - certainly in midfield and I would hope up front too. I hope we keep Milner in some capacity because he's clearly good at setting standards, and Henderson, despite not being able to sustain impact over a long season anymore is still good enough to get games. We have Carvalho coming in and hopefully he'll hit the ground running. I'm not sure what Elliott's best position is, and I have doubts over Jones. Keita can't be trusted to play to a high enough standard; Chamberlain doesn't fit anymore. And then I'm not sure what's happening with Bobby, Sadio and Mane.

 

[Athens]

I learnt that Real are now our bogey team ever since Rodgers fielded that shit team against them.

 

[Mamma Mia]

We're the best club in the world. A bit more luck and we'd be celebrating a quad.

What a fantastic season. I'm made up regardless of missing out on the big ones this year.

The best thing is Klopp's contract extension. I trust him and his team to keep giving us amazing seasons. I'm just going to enjoy every minute.

Gonna miss footie a lot, here's to some great signings and we go again next year.

 

[Judge Jules]

Top post mate, agree wholeheartedly.

 

[tomasjj]

Hendo cannot do that job, mate. He is getting on now.

Trent needs proper competition, not cover. He has to fear the benching, not just get told off for his wayward sloppy passing. Sometimes he is acting like he is the new Beckham. Badly needs a rest though. Fuck the nation league bollocks

Agree that we need two new midfielders. Gini wasn't replaced, and Hendo is getting on. Keita cannot be trusted. Ox is out the door.

Bobby did well when he came on. We need someone who can play between the lines. So one of Salah and Mane can leave as well. Buy a younger player.

Konate was boss, apart from when he should hoof it.

Up the REDS!

 

[Fabio]

I learnt that Real are now our bogey team ever since Rodgers fielded that shit team against them.

The borini curse?

 

[Athens]

The borini curse?

I don't know if we can blame him on this one, it's all Rodgers' fault.

 

[Fabio]

This cunt can fuck off

 

[Fabio]

Keita shot > Aspas corner

Criminal

 

[Tinto]

No complaints about the result really unlike the last time we played them in the final and we were cheated.

Madrid were just better than us in both penalty areas. They made the best chance of the match with Allison already beaten before the shot was taken, and they defended brilliantly, throwing bodies and heads on everything.

We needed our attackers to be on top of their game and Jota, Mane and Salah hasn't been quite on it for a little while Dias was well contained. Thought it was Dias's most disappointed game so far

 

[HC]

Our shape and midfields against Chelsea in 2 finals and Madrid last night was wrong.

I think we've looked tired for months, last night was no exception we largely looked shagged

Badly need investment in the midfield , we need a ball carrier in the middle of the park , fucking matip and konate move further forward with the ball than our midfielders do

 

[Frogfish]

It might have been doable had we not been pushing for the title all the way to the end. Being a successful team means you tend to play more games, but we didn't have the luxury of winning the title earlier and be able to allow a few players to ease off. We were shattered in the last few games and that's not easy to shake off before a final.

My thinking on this is that with 6-12 games fewer in the legs of most first teamers would we have not been physically and mentally stronger vs. Spurs (a win would have won us the PL) and Madrid to win the CL? Pure conjecture of course but also logical?

Instead of celebrating losing the PL by 1 pt, losing in the CL final and having the two domestic cups we could be showing off the PL & CL trophies on the parade.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

View attachment 2245

This cunt can fuck off

Yah my signature changed b/c of this.
I'm done with him.
One touch, pick a corner and goal.
Fucking idiot. Sell him to Newcastle.

 

[Fabio]

Yah my signature changed b/c of this.
I'm done with him.
One touch, pick a corner and goal.
Fucking idiot. Sell him to Newcastle.

Not even shoot. Take a touch, space opens for all of the forwards, pick a pass.

It's pathetic

 

[Fabio]

Should have brought taki ln

 

[mom]

Nothing to be learned. We got robbed by an amazing goalkeeping performance. The end. Any other day and we’d have won that by a margin and a half.

 

[Modo]

Yeah, I took this one pretty hard. I think I'll be avoiding football for a while.

 

[The Nomad]

Yeah, I took this one pretty hard. I think I'll be avoiding football for a while.

No need. We weren't battered. We weren't cheated.

We were just beaten by Real Everton and the hungry hungry eyebrow pulled off a job Mourinho would have been proud of.

We controlled Madrid. Controlled. For 85 minutes. Not many teams do that.