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Kyrgiakos + Skrtel, for now...

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[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=42401.msg1205185#msg1205185 date=1287987882]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=42401.msg1205181#msg1205181 date=1287986897]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42401.msg1204996#msg1204996 date=1287946355]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42401.msg1204988#msg1204988 date=1287945588]
I think Skrtel has been very good this season. He and Gerrard are the only players who should be proud of their work so far this year.

And Modokay when a player played a game like Carragher did in Istanbul he NEVER deserves the line 'This guy has really fucked us over at times'.
Please take that back.
[/quote]


that could be about the richest thing i've ever seen on here given some of the things you've called benitez - who was also in istanbul, if i recall - over the last few months.
[/quote]

Ha. Rafa nearly cost us the game that night not the other way around. Starting an injured player while leaving your best DM off against the best attack in Europe.

Pfft. Stevie G and Jamie Carragher were what Istanbul was about.
[/quote]

And THE prime reason we had a fucking chance of being there was Rafa. I can't believe we are still doing this, and I can't believe you still have the nerve to take up such hyperbolic language. I mean, first you exhibited total contrarian blindness to any success we had in recent memory under rafa, even when we were playing a standard of football which I'd fucking kill to see with anywhere like the same consistency now. Then this wierd, contrarian optimism looking forward to a season with a manager who has achieved far less, in a situation that was completely fucking dire, in a fucking mess of a summer.

We know what happened next. Your contrarian position was exposed as completely wrong.

But no, there's no cause for a reevaluation of your positions at all. Why not just start back at square one again with the old boring one about how Rafa almost cost us at Istanbul, or how we'd have won the title if not for him being the one that was in charge having got us so close to winning the title. God, for all we achieved in spite of him, it's strange how we haven't hit the ground running in his absence.

I don't even want to talk about Rafa anymore either, and I'd love for us all to just move on. With that in mind, would it kill you to just take up a reasonable, even handed position about him? Here's a tip for you to start with, try not poking around his single biggest achievement to find failures. It makes you look fucking absurd.
[/quote]

Why did you bother?
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42401.msg1205187#msg1205187 date=1287988095]
Why did you bother?
[/quote]

Long day, I'm ill, and having just sent off a ton of article enquiries, fully expecting to hear fuck all in return, I thought I'd vent a bit?
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=42401.msg1205193#msg1205193 date=1287988613]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42401.msg1205187#msg1205187 date=1287988095]
Why did you bother?
[/quote]

Long day, I'm ill, and having just sent off a ton of article enquiries, fully expecting to hear fuck all in return, I thought I'd vent a bit?
[/quote]

Heh, I'm in no place to judge on this one I suppose.

You'll get a fucking ridiculous response no doubt.
 
And THE prime reason we had a fucking chance of being there was Rafa. I can't believe we are still doing this, and I can't believe you still have the nerve to take up such hyperbolic language. I mean, first you exhibited total contrarian blindness to any success we had in recent memory under rafa, even when we were playing a standard of football which I'd fucking kill to see with anywhere like the same consistency now. Then this wierd, contrarian optimism looking forward to a season with a manager who has achieved far less, in a situation that was completely fucking dire, in a fucking mess of a summer.

We know what happened next. Your contrarian position was exposed as completely wrong.

But no, there's no cause for a reevaluation of your positions at all. Why not just start back at square one again with the old boring one about how Rafa almost cost us at Istanbul, or how we'd have won the title if not for him being the one that was in charge having got us so close to winning the title. God, for all we achieved in spite of him, it's strange how we haven't hit the ground running in his absence.

I don't even want to talk about Rafa anymore either, and I'd love for us all to just move on. With that in mind, would it kill you to just take up a reasonable, even handed position about him? Here's a tip for you to start with, try not poking around his single biggest achievement to find failures. It makes you look fucking absurd.
Click to expand...

If you take away "looking fucking absurd" you don't leave Dreamy with an awful lot to play with.
 
Against a slightly less cumbersome attack I'm affraid that any pairing with Kyrgiakos in it will be torn apart.

Greek is by far the best in the air and as such an important squadplayer these days but I'm not at all convinced with his marking and tackling on the floor.

We've done this to bits but I don't think Skrtel + Kyrgiakos is the way forward by any means and as already been said Carra has been rather good of late and should be the one out of two still. At home perhaps against the likes of Blackburn and Bolton we'd probably get the most out of our central defense with Kyrgiakos pairing up with Agger mind.
 
I can see why putting the greek in against teams that rely on a big target man might be a good plan but against quality opposition i don't think he's the best option really.

If people think that Carra is past his best and needs to be moved on - which i personally disagree with - then fair enough, but if that is the case then replacing him with the greek, also old, also slow, seems a little silly.
 
people can jump all over mokoday but carra is in decline, I just think he (carra) derserves more respect then I've read on sites like RAWK
 
Has he recovered from his injury/illness yet?

I'd have thought Hodgson would have played Agger since Konchesky was fit.
 
if the greeks aerial ability makes him a must start to nip the set peice conceeded goals in the bud then it's got to be carra besides him because agger and skrtel haven't done enough to push carra to the bench (imho).
 
RAWK's stance on Carra is mental of course but what should we expect from them?

He is getting older so he will be in decline to a degree, but i don't agree that he should be dropped. We don't have anyone else who is a better defender and more reliable.

It seems that Modokay is slightly obsessed with getting rid of Carra. I don't really understand that but he's entitled to his opinion. But when you get the same people starting the same threads on the same issues then you do start taking less notice of any logic there.

I don't get the fuss about the contract. What business is it of anyone what he gets paid? He's earned the right to be one of the highest paid players and he is still important to the team, so why not give him a new deal?
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42401.msg1205340#msg1205340 date=1288000206]
RAWK's stance on Carra is mental of course but what should we expect from them?

He is getting older so he will be in decline to a degree, but i don't agree that he should be dropped. We don't have anyone else who is a better defender and more reliable.

It seems that Modokay is slightly obsessed with getting rid of Carra. I don't really understand that but he's entitled to his opinion. But when you get the same people starting the same threads on the same issues then you do start taking less notice of any logic there.

I don't get the fuss about the contract. What business is it of anyone what he gets paid? He's earned the right to be one of the highest paid players and he is still important to the team, so why not give him a new deal?
[/quote]

all very good points but I think it's harsh for people to jump all over mokoday for stressing his opinion.
eseentially what has mokoday said? carra is in decline and should be on the bench, and that's it.
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42401.msg1205340#msg1205340 date=1288000206]
RAWK's stance on Carra is mental of course but what should we expect from them?

He is getting older so he will be in decline to a degree, but i don't agree that he should be dropped. We don't have anyone else who is a better defender and more reliable.

It seems that Modokay is slightly obsessed with getting rid of Carra. I don't really understand that but he's entitled to his opinion. But when you get the same people starting the same threads on the same issues then you do start taking less notice of any logic there.

I don't get the fuss about the contract. What business is it of anyone what he gets paid? He's earned the right to be one of the highest paid players and he is still important to the team, so why not give him a new deal?
[/quote]

Agree, and people (I think on this thread) slagged Rafa off for letting Hyypia go 🙂 Thing was Rafa offered him a contract, but he left to get more games.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42401.msg1205342#msg1205342 date=1288000370]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42401.msg1205340#msg1205340 date=1288000206]
RAWK's stance on Carra is mental of course but what should we expect from them?

He is getting older so he will be in decline to a degree, but i don't agree that he should be dropped. We don't have anyone else who is a better defender and more reliable.

It seems that Modokay is slightly obsessed with getting rid of Carra. I don't really understand that but he's entitled to his opinion. But when you get the same people starting the same threads on the same issues then you do start taking less notice of any logic there.

I don't get the fuss about the contract. What business is it of anyone what he gets paid? He's earned the right to be one of the highest paid players and he is still important to the team, so why not give him a new deal?
[/quote]

all very good points but I think it's harsh for people to jump all over mokoday for stressing his opinion.
eseentially what has mokoday said? carra is in decline and should be on the bench, and that's it.
[/quote]

I think you missed the 'Carra has really fucked us over too many times' and I think theres a 'Carra is shit' in there somewhere too
 
Neil, the Greek & Carra in cb would be a mistake IMO, you need to at least pretend you've got some pace in your central defence.
 
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42401.msg1205343#msg1205343 date=1288000449]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42401.msg1205340#msg1205340 date=1288000206]
RAWK's stance on Carra is mental of course but what should we expect from them?

He is getting older so he will be in decline to a degree, but i don't agree that he should be dropped. We don't have anyone else who is a better defender and more reliable.

It seems that Modokay is slightly obsessed with getting rid of Carra. I don't really understand that but he's entitled to his opinion. But when you get the same people starting the same threads on the same issues then you do start taking less notice of any logic there.

I don't get the fuss about the contract. What business is it of anyone what he gets paid? He's earned the right to be one of the highest paid players and he is still important to the team, so why not give him a new deal?
[/quote]

Agree, and people (I think on this thread) slagged Rafa off for letting Hyypia go 🙂 Thing was Rafa offered him a contract, but he left to get more games.
[/quote]

Did they?

Maybe, but I don't remember...

I'd have thought it was to be expected that he'd leave.

We were trying to blood Agger and Skrtel as the future CB pairing, and with Carra as well, I don't think Hyppia's departure was surprising since it did look like hius days were numbered here.

No one foresaw that it'd turn to shit so quickly.
 
Another thing about Hyypia was that at the time people said he was in decline too. There was a lot of whining at one point, around the time he scored an og at Everton i believe. Yet when he finally left it was a terrible mistake.

Same with Riise. Remember the slagging he got every single week? Well since then we've had Aurelio, Dossena, Insua and Koncheski. All shit.

It'll be a similar story when Carra goes. The other defenders might seem to have more glamorous names, or be more 'cultured' or score more goals but none of them are better out and out defenders than Carra, and that will become clear if he goes.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=42401.msg1205346#msg1205346 date=1288000584]
Neil, the Greek & Carra in cb would be a mistake IMO, you need to at least pretend you've got some pace in your central defence.
[/quote]

we're getting done time and time again on set pieces so that's why I've gone for the greek and then you have carra's ability to organise the defense and reading of the game which must be worth more than skrtel's mobility?
 
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=42401.msg1204851#msg1204851 date=1287937082]
[quote author=etchy link=topic=42401.msg1204847#msg1204847 date=1287937008]
I'd pick Agger over Skrtel. Carragher did well on the right, with decent crosses. Shame about being top scorer of own goals tho!
[/quote]

The two against Man U and the one vs West Ham, Oh and Tottenham....Jesus this guy has really fucked us over sometimes.
[/quote]

Back on Topic.

I saw on MOTD2 last night that Carra is top of the og list, but Rio Ferdinand is 2nd 2 og's behind.
 
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42401.msg1205387#msg1205387 date=1288004798]
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=42401.msg1204851#msg1204851 date=1287937082]
[quote author=etchy link=topic=42401.msg1204847#msg1204847 date=1287937008]
I'd pick Agger over Skrtel. Carragher did well on the right, with decent crosses. Shame about being top scorer of own goals tho!
[/quote]

The two against Man U and the one vs West Ham, Oh and Tottenham....Jesus this guy has really fucked us over sometimes.
[/quote]

Back on Topic.

I saw on MOTD2 last night that Carra is top of the og list, but Rio Ferdinand is 2nd 2 og's behind.
[/quote]

What a great record to have.
 
Richard Dunne tops the own goal list.
Had a few drinks before watching Match of the Day did we?
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=42401.msg1205494#msg1205494 date=1288012883]
Richard Dunne tops the own goal list.
Had a few drinks before watching Match of the Day did we?
[/quote]

Nope I didn't actually, I didn't see Dunne on this list?

How many has he got?

I think I was just looking for someone expensive and close to Carra's goals against, for this thread though.
 
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42401.msg1205513#msg1205513 date=1288015007]
[quote author=the count link=topic=42401.msg1205494#msg1205494 date=1288012883]
Richard Dunne tops the own goal list.
Had a few drinks before watching Match of the Day did we?
[/quote]

Nope I didn't actually, I didn't see Dunne on this list?

How many has he got?

I think I was just looking for someone expensive and close to Carra's goals against, for this thread though.
[/quote]

Dunne has eight with Carra on seven I think.

Probably quite telling that they are both "body on the line" defenders, who are prepared to put themselves in the line of fire more often than many others.
 
I'd like to see us able to rest Carragher more often just because it would be great if we could have him for several more seasons in games that suit his strengths.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=42401.msg1205516#msg1205516 date=1288015522]
I'd like to see us able to rest Carragher more often just because it would be great if we could have him for several more seasons in games that suit his strengths.
[/quote]

Indeed so. The problem has been that Carra has been indipensable for too long and has been run into the ground, some of which is his own making due to his relentless drive.

regards
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42401.msg1205342#msg1205342 date=1288000370]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42401.msg1205340#msg1205340 date=1288000206]
RAWK's stance on Carra is mental of course but what should we expect from them?

He is getting older so he will be in decline to a degree, but i don't agree that he should be dropped. We don't have anyone else who is a better defender and more reliable.

It seems that Modokay is slightly obsessed with getting rid of Carra. I don't really understand that but he's entitled to his opinion. But when you get the same people starting the same threads on the same issues then you do start taking less notice of any logic there.

I don't get the fuss about the contract. What business is it of anyone what he gets paid? He's earned the right to be one of the highest paid players and he is still important to the team, so why not give him a new deal?
[/quote]

all very good points but I think it's harsh for people to jump all over mokoday for stressing his opinion.
eseentially what has mokoday said? carra is in decline and should be on the bench, and that's it.
[/quote]

True.
To be honest Kyrgiakos hasn't a put a foot wrong since he joined. I think the reason why so many on here don't rate him is his that he was more or less a free transfer.
Here's some stats, don't really know if they favour him or not:

* He has started 7 games this season (3 Europa league, 1 League cup, 3 Premiership)
* Has scored two goals in the premiership.
* We've won 4 of the games, lost 3.

Liverpool v Trabzonspor 1 - 0 W

Trabzonspor v Liverpool 1 - 2 W

Liverpool v Steaua 4 - 1 W

Liverpool v N'hampton 2(2) - (4)2 L

Liverpool v Blackpool 1 - 2 L (Kyrgiakos scored)

Everton v Liverpool 2 - 0 L

Liverpool v Blackburn 2 - 1 W
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42401.msg1205710#msg1205710 date=1288033947]
I'd quit while I was behind, Modo.

You were,shall we say, exaggerating a little.
[/quote]
We'll see.
 
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