January signings?

[Squiggles]

It's a fair point from Rage - when we are desperately short of money you do look at the pointless money we've spent on wages and transfer/signing on fees for Dossena, Voronin, Degen, etc, and cringe. 

And how did we forget us resigning Robbie Fowler from Man City as a January transfer? Masher too...

Henrik Larson also moved in January and scored a number of important goals for the United.

SN's talking balls.

 

[Red Mullet]

Not sure where you're going with your post...

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=35853.msg945442#msg945442 date=1253223982]
Not sure where you're going with your post...
[/quote]

What?

 

[Red Mullet]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35853.msg945444#msg945444 date=1253224082]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=35853.msg945442#msg945442 date=1253223982]
Not sure where you're going with your post...
[/quote]

What?
[/quote]

First you say we're wasting money on wages of poor performing players/transfers then you switch to players signed in the January window that's done well, then SN talking balls?

Kinda jumping around.

 

[Squiggles]

You're right. In future I'll make a new post for every new point I make.

Thanks.

 

[Red Mullet]

Well, I don't think rage has a point. Other than having another go at Rafa.

It's all easy saying players that haven't shined a waste of money. But lets' face it were people really expecting Voronin to be as good as Torres? As a 4th striker I think Voronin is fine. Sufficient to be subbed on in the last 10 minutes to give Torres some rest or come in as a striker should there be an injury. He maybe useful in the League Cup.

Also, should Rafa really get rid of Dossena when Aurelio got his injuried over the summer, leaving only Insua. So no cover at LB and Rafa should sell because he didn't play to the expectation of his 7 million transfer fee.

As for Babel, yes, he's the one person that probably should have gone but with Xabi leaving, more attention was really needed to to get the spine of the team sorted. The only odd thing with Aqualina is his injury but when that heals we could have a very strong spine again. Possibly better than last season.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=35853.msg945470#msg945470 date=1253226752]
Well, I don't think rage has a point. Other than having another go at Rafa.

It's all easy saying players that haven't shined a waste of money. But lets' face it were people really expecting Voronin to be as good as Torres? As a 4th striker I think Voronin is fine. Sufficient to be subbed on in the last 10 minutes to give Torres some rest or come in as a striker should there be an injury. He maybe useful in the League Cup.

Also, should Rafa really get rid of Dossena when Aurelio got his injuried over the summer, leaving only Insua. So no cover at LB and Rafa should sell because he didn't play to the expectation of his 7 million transfer fee.

As for Babel, yes, he's the one person that probably should have gone but with Xabi leaving, more attention was really needed to to get the spine of the team sorted. The only odd thing with Aqualina is his injury but when that heals we could have a very strong spine again. Possibly better than last season.
[/quote]

Yeah. Everyone expected Voronin to be as good as Fernando Torres. That's why he's seen as a disappointment, Christ. I'm not particularly against him being here but I don't think he offers much, as proved when Benitez was willing to send him on loan for a year. He knows he's landed a dud.

Dossena was a totally unnecessary transfer because like you say, we had Insua coming through and Aurelio had his best ever year for us. Degen's just further money down the drain as far as I'm concerned. 2 years worth of wages for what? Zilch. Then you have to look at Robbie Keane, from which we reportedly lost £5-6M in the space of a 4 months.

Of course some money is bound to be wasted in football but some of Rafa's errors are just too glaring to dismiss out of hand. And it's only natural for it to come under closer scrutiny when we've got no cash.

 

[rage]

[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=35853.msg945399#msg945399 date=1253218306]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35853.msg944322#msg944322 date=1253105776]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=35853.msg944307#msg944307 date=1253104069]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35853.msg944305#msg944305 date=1253103983]
i'd take young. may not ever happen but imo he is good enough.

anyway rafa hould have done better getting rid of players in the summer instead of wanting/needing to sign players in january. babel, doseena and voronin should be cleared out in january at the very least
[/quote]

Give it a rest
[/quote]

do you think these players should be earning tens of thousands a week and clearly not good enough to get a game? they're not even real squad players ffs. we should have done more to sell them than complain about needing money for new players.

doseena, voronin and babel will cost us at least 7 million in wages this season.
[/quote]

You really are short sighted.

Do you seriously think that by selling the 3 you've quoted and thus reducing the debt on the club from their wages, Liverpool can buy a star player that can turn a game, is cheap from a wages point of view and can provide cover from injuries, give another variation of attack or defence?

No, didn't think so.

Case of writing without thinking first.
[/quote]

short sighted because i think we should try to sell crap before we buy, especially when we have limited funds?

can you even add up?

lets see 7 million at least in wages, between these 3 that's at least 10 million in sales. 17 million would go a long way towards buying a quality player.

 

[Squiggles]

In fairness wage and transfer budgets are usually completely separate, or so FM led me to believe.

I'm not sure how much flexibility there is between the two.

 

[rage]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35853.msg945499#msg945499 date=1253229176]
In fairness wage and transfer budgets are usually completely separate, or so FM led me to believe.

I'm not sure how much flexibility there is between the two.
[/quote]

i only joined them up based upon how we seemed to have counted improved contracts in our transfer budget over the summer. well our owners did anyway

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35853.msg945499#msg945499 date=1253229176]
In fairness wage and transfer budgets are usually completely separate, or so FM led me to believe.

I'm not sure how much flexibility there is between the two.
[/quote]

The money all comes from the same place.

Obviously if your wage costs go up by 5m in a year it's going to affect how much you can budget for transfers.

 

[Red Mullet]

Wasn't Voronin free? So everyone expected a freebie to be as good as a 20-25 million rated player?

Degen was a surprise move but for all we know there could have been private chats between Rafa and Arbeloa about moving on. And it's a little harsh to judge Degen considering he hasn't really played for LFC. Granted not looking bright for him at the moment but he's up against Johnson now.

Nearly 40 million was supposedly spent this summer, pretty much the norm for LFC so is there a real money shortage?

IMO, everyone expecting a star player being bought every season, as well as selling all the dross and buying bargains whilst keeping the core of the team togather without getting the club into a massive mess is a little too much.

 

[Red Mullet]

Your 17 million quality player willing to work for nothing???


Think man!!!!

 

[rage]

its not really about working for nothing.

we can potentially put near enough 20 million pounds to better use.

oh and voronin wasn't free. i think there is a clear distinction between a bosman and a free signing. the signing on fee would have been a million or two.

my point is if we're short of money we should get rid of players like voronin, doseena and babel first. i'd add degen to that list but no team is going to buy that sorry excuse of a footballer off us.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=35853.msg945502#msg945502 date=1253229568]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35853.msg945499#msg945499 date=1253229176]
In fairness wage and transfer budgets are usually completely separate, or so FM led me to believe.

I'm not sure how much flexibility there is between the two.
[/quote]

The money all comes from the same place.

Obviously if your wage costs go up by 5m in a year it's going to affect how much you can budget for transfers.
[/quote]

No, I get that. It's just if you've spent up your summer transfer budget but have a 30k/40k spare in your wage budget, it's going to make signing a freebie really appealing with little consideration of the long term cost of having him on the books.

 

[Red Mullet]

And my point is that if you get rid of those players, the team will not have back up players for the League cup or if there are injuries.

I've also said there's bound to be some waste of money, because not all transfers are going to be right first time. Accept it and support the team rather than constantly moan about it.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=35853.msg945504#msg945504 date=1253229731]
Wasn't Voronin free? So everyone expected a freebie to be as good as a 20-25 million rated player?

Degen was a surprise move but for all we know there could have been private chats between Rafa and Arbeloa about moving on. And it's a little harsh to judge Degen considering he hasn't really played for LFC. Granted not looking bright for him at the moment but he's up against Johnson now.

Nearly 40 million was supposedly spent this summer, pretty much the norm for LFC so is there a real money shortage?

IMO, everyone expecting a star player being bought every season, as well as selling all the dross and buying bargains whilst keeping the core of the team togather without getting the club into a massive mess is a little too much.
[/quote]

....You alluded to 'everyone expected Voronin to be compared Torres...' I was being sarcastic because that clearly isn't the criteria he's judged by. Also nobody expected us to get rid of all the dross this summer but it would be a welcome change not to have to so.

And if you're questioning the lack of funds when we've spent 0 net, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=35853.msg945520#msg945520 date=1253231522]
And my point is that if you get rid of those players, the team will not have back up players for the League cup or if there are injuries.

I've also said there's bound to be some waste of money, because not all transfers are going to be right first time. Accept it and support the team rather than constantly moan about it.
[/quote]

I agree, I think that is what has happened to the squad. We shipped out driftwood over the last few years and never replaced it with squad type players, just a few kids and some crap signings, now look at our bench. A few years ago it was chock full of internationals (proper ones) it, ain't at the moment

regards

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=35853.msg945504#msg945504 date=1253229731]
Wasn't Voronin free? So everyone expected a freebie to be as good as a 20-25 million rated player?

Degen was a surprise move but for all we know there could have been private chats between Rafa and Arbeloa about moving on. And it's a little harsh to judge Degen considering he hasn't really played for LFC. Granted not looking bright for him at the moment but he's up against Johnson now.

Nearly 40 million was supposedly spent this summer, pretty much the norm for LFC so is there a real money shortage?

IMO, everyone expecting a star player being bought every season, as well as selling all the dross and buying bargains whilst keeping the core of the team togather without getting the club into a massive mess is a little too much.
[/quote]

No one is expecting Voronin to be a 20M player. Even as an exaggeration to make a point it doesn't work. Aurelio came in on a free and has proven himself a valued member of the squad. Contrast that with Voronin who was bombed out on loan after a season. Degen came with a big question mark hanging over his head due to injuries and practically everyone voiced their utter disbelief at our decision to sign him, so nobody can say we were unlucky. Rafa gambled and lost on that one.

We may spend 40M or so every summer, but it's not every summer we make it all back in sales.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=35853.msg945520#msg945520 date=1253231522]
And my point is that if you get rid of those players, the team will not have back up players for the League cup or if there are injuries.

I've also said there's bound to be some waste of money, because not all transfers are going to be right first time. Accept it and support the team rather than constantly moan about it.
[/quote]

I don't "constantly moan about it" so firstly get your fact straight.

And I posted recently that we've led too many players go in recent years and failed to adequately replace them leaving our squad thread bare.

Obviously our first team has improved considerably since then as a result, but we needed some of these squad players like Babel, Lucas, Voronin, N'gog, etc, to come in and be of good enough quality, and IMO that hasn't happend.

 

[Red Mullet]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35853.msg945533#msg945533 date=1253232143]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=35853.msg945520#msg945520 date=1253231522]
And my point is that if you get rid of those players, the team will not have back up players for the League cup or if there are injuries.

I've also said there's bound to be some waste of money, because not all transfers are going to be right first time. Accept it and support the team rather than constantly moan about it.
[/quote]

I don't "constantly moan about it" so firstly get your fact straight.

And I posted recently that we've led too many players go in recent years and failed to adequately replace them leaving our squad thread bare.

Obviously our first team has improved considerably since then as a result, but we needed some of these squad players like Babel, Lucas, Voronin, N'gog, etc, to come in and be of good enough quality, and IMO that hasn't happend.
[/quote]

That was for rage not you.

 

[ILD]

Am i the only one who think Vorinin isn't that bad? I think he tries to use the ball intelligently but sometimes his body can't keep pace with his brain. Not saying he is good enough or anything but he takes a bit of a kicking at time for fuck all.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=ILD link=topic=35853.msg945557#msg945557 date=1253233912]
Am i the only one who think Vorinin isn't that bad? I think he tries to use the ball intelligently but sometimes his body can't keep pace with his brain. Not saying he is good enough or anything but he takes a bit of a kicking at time for fuck all.
[/quote]

I think he's shite.

 

[ILD]

I'm not saying he deserves credit for nothing but at the same time he doesn't deserve a kicking for the limited playing time he does get.

Ha, wait a minute I can't believe i'm defending Andrei Vorinin.

*Goes to sleep*

 

[rage]

[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=35853.msg945551#msg945551 date=1253233567]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35853.msg945533#msg945533 date=1253232143]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=35853.msg945520#msg945520 date=1253231522]
And my point is that if you get rid of those players, the team will not have back up players for the League cup or if there are injuries.

I've also said there's bound to be some waste of money, because not all transfers are going to be right first time. Accept it and support the team rather than constantly moan about it.
[/quote]

I don't "constantly moan about it" so firstly get your fact straight.

And I posted recently that we've led too many players go in recent years and failed to adequately replace them leaving our squad thread bare.

Obviously our first team has improved considerably since then as a result, but we needed some of these squad players like Babel, Lucas, Voronin, N'gog, etc, to come in and be of good enough quality, and IMO that hasn't happend.
[/quote]

That was for rage not you.
[/quote]

i don't accept shortcomings like voronin. doseena and babel.

voronin and doseena offer no squad depth and i don't give a fuck if we play 11 kids in the carling cup. 4th choice players should be kids not multi million flops taking a huge wage.

if you want to buy something in life when money is tight you sell first.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Rage - it's dos[size=16pt]S[/size]ena

 

[Garmy]

Taking a bit of steam away from the current proceedings.. someone mentioned David Silva? Doesn't look like it anymore 🙁

Valencia and Spain star David Silva has given fresh momentum to reports linking him with a transfer to Manchester United by claiming that a move to England would be "hard to resist".

Silva, 23, was reported to be a target for both United and Liverpool over the summer but surprisingly stayed at Valencia, along with David Villa, despite the Spanish club's crippling financial problems.

The winger has started the new season in impressive form, scoring the opening goal in Valencia's 4-2 win over Valladolid on September 13, and it is believed that Sir Alex Ferguson remains an admirer of the Euro 2008 winner.

While Silva is committed to Valencia at present, he has hinted that the chance to move to Old Trafford would hold a strong appeal in the future.

"It's an honour for any player that a club of the prestige of Manchester United should follow them and that in itself is enormous praise," Silva said in the Daily Mirror.

"I am committed to Valencia and my dream is to win the title but in the future anything is possible. Valencia have rejected offers for me in the past few months and I am happy here. But I also know that the Premier League is a big competition and hard to resist."

 

[rage]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35853.msg945688#msg945688 date=1253259541]
Rage - it's dos[size=16pt]S[/size]ena
[/quote]

i'm trying. i could always go back to calling him fat bastard 🙂

how's the new year thing going ltw?

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=Garmy link=topic=35853.msg945703#msg945703 date=1253262742]
Taking a bit of steam away from the current proceedings.. someone mentioned David Silva? Doesn't look like it anymore 🙁

Valencia and Spain star David Silva has given fresh momentum to reports linking him with a transfer to Manchester United by claiming that a move to England would be "hard to resist".

Silva, 23, was reported to be a target for both United and Liverpool over the summer but surprisingly stayed at Valencia, along with David Villa, despite the Spanish club's crippling financial problems.

The winger has started the new season in impressive form, scoring the opening goal in Valencia's 4-2 win over Valladolid on September 13, and it is believed that Sir Alex Ferguson remains an admirer of the Euro 2008 winner.

While Silva is committed to Valencia at present, he has hinted that the chance to move to Old Trafford would hold a strong appeal in the future.

"It's an honour for any player that a club of the prestige of Manchester United should follow them and that in itself is enormous praise," Silva said in the Daily Mirror.

"I am committed to Valencia and my dream is to win the title but in the future anything is possible. Valencia have rejected offers for me in the past few months and I am happy here. But I also know that the Premier League is a big competition and hard to resist."

[/quote]

Ugh. I feel sick.