It could be worse...

[Stanners]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=34955.msg913683#msg913683 date=1248791982]
[quote author=Stanners link=topic=34955.msg913678#msg913678 date=1248791725]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=34955.msg913673#msg913673 date=1248791564]
By his standards he really has lasted well. That's nearly a 100 posts.
[/quote]

Have I missed something?
[/quote]

You're rowing with the famous Momo/Blackie Gray- a willow th' wisp of bile that flits in and out of the Six Crazy Minutes collective now and again.
[/quote]

Oh, ok. Cool. At least I have been vindicated in my assertion that he was indeed a cunting fucktard.

*wanders off perplexed*

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34955.msg913443#msg913443 date=1248780562]
They offset a lot of their expenditure against anticipated sale of highbury real estate and the economic downturn hit them hard.
BUT, rather than borrow heavily to increase overall debt, (they have turned down massive 100m+ loans from the russian Usmanov and the American whos name escapes me Kraft?) they have trusted Wenger to essentially get blood from a stone and keep them in the top 4 with whatever they can give him untill such times as the debt on Ashburton is paid up.
Its easy for us to laugh and point, but in reality neither team is winning anything, we're servicing debt on loans theyre servicing debt on real estate. Meaning in 3 or 4 years time both teams will be debt free but they will have a 60k state of the art stadium earning them 100m a year and we'll have a slightly better playing squad.
Meanwhile these kids they keep churning out will help keep them afloat and outweigh the debt.
Someone, somewhere down the line will inherit a decent squad, a youth set up the envy of the world, a stunning stadium and all the money in the world for transfers.
Id rather be them than us. The stadium is everything.
[/quote]


Very true.

Usmanov tried to get the shareholders to raise 100m via a rights issue rather than him loan the club money. Kroenke and the other longer esablished shareholders refused.
As it is Wenger hasn't got a lot to spend but that could change in future. Both Kroenke and Usmanov have been building up their shareholdings for a while now.

 

[red_maradona]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34955.msg913443#msg913443 date=1248780562]
They offset a lot of their expenditure against anticipated sale of highbury real estate and the economic downturn hit them hard.
BUT, rather than borrow heavily to increase overall debt, (they have turned down massive 100m+ loans from the russian Usmanov and the American whos name escapes me Kraft?) they have trusted Wenger to essentially get blood from a stone and keep them in the top 4 with whatever they can give him untill such times as the debt on Ashburton is paid up.
Its easy for us to laugh and point, but in reality neither team is winning anything, we're servicing debt on loans theyre servicing debt on real estate. Meaning in 3 or 4 years time both teams will be debt free but they will have a 60k state of the art stadium earning them 100m a year and we'll have a slightly better playing squad.
Meanwhile these kids they keep churning out will help keep them afloat and outweigh the debt.
Someone, somewhere down the line will inherit a decent squad, a youth set up the envy of the world, a stunning stadium and all the money in the world for transfers.
Id rather be them than us. The stadium is everything.
[/quote]

not really, you need success on the pitch too (i.e. newcastle/sunderland, big grounds bit shit all) - stadium helps, but success is more important

 

[Flanders]

[quote author=Asim link=topic=34955.msg913414#msg913414 date=1248779745]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34955.msg913409#msg913409 date=1248779652]
Wenger must be becoming increasing disillusioned (and bored) too..
[/quote]

He needs to just wait a few more years to allow the young ones to mature, when they do they will be AMAZING.

[/quote]

In a few years, those that are amazing will fuck off to a champions league club.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=34955.msg913877#msg913877 date=1248813654]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34955.msg913443#msg913443 date=1248780562]
They offset a lot of their expenditure against anticipated sale of highbury real estate and the economic downturn hit them hard.
BUT, rather than borrow heavily to increase overall debt, (they have turned down massive 100m+ loans from the russian Usmanov and the American whos name escapes me Kraft?) they have trusted Wenger to essentially get blood from a stone and keep them in the top 4 with whatever they can give him untill such times as the debt on Ashburton is paid up.
Its easy for us to laugh and point, but in reality neither team is winning anything, we're servicing debt on loans theyre servicing debt on real estate. Meaning in 3 or 4 years time both teams will be debt free but they will have a 60k state of the art stadium earning them 100m a year and we'll have a slightly better playing squad.
Meanwhile these kids they keep churning out will help keep them afloat and outweigh the debt.
Someone, somewhere down the line will inherit a decent squad, a youth set up the envy of the world, a stunning stadium and all the money in the world for transfers.
Id rather be them than us. The stadium is everything.
[/quote]


Very true.

Usmanov tried to get the shareholders to raise 100m via a rights issue rather than him loan the club money. Kroenke and the other longer esablished shareholders refused.
As it is Wenger hasn't got a lot to spend but that could change in future. Both Kroenke and Usmanov have been building up their shareholdings for a while now.
[/quote]

Yup, my Arsenal supporting mate reckons the second the Owner(s) get to that level of owning over 50% or whatever it is, then they'll release megafunds for Wenger to spend.

Whether he intends on spending any of the available cash is another matter.

 

[Rosco]

Yeah provided a normal majority is needed for a rights issue I'd expect Usmanov to do it fairly quickly. Not sure about Kroenke though.

Kroenke made a bit of a fuck up with the Nuggets this year. Vince McMahon wasn't too pleased about it

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=34955.msg913884#msg913884 date=1248813882]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34955.msg913443#msg913443 date=1248780562]
They offset a lot of their expenditure against anticipated sale of highbury real estate and the economic downturn hit them hard.
BUT, rather than borrow heavily to increase overall debt, (they have turned down massive 100m+ loans from the russian Usmanov and the American whos name escapes me Kraft?) they have trusted Wenger to essentially get blood from a stone and keep them in the top 4 with whatever they can give him untill such times as the debt on Ashburton is paid up.
Its easy for us to laugh and point, but in reality neither team is winning anything, we're servicing debt on loans theyre servicing debt on real estate. Meaning in 3 or 4 years time both teams will be debt free but they will have a 60k state of the art stadium earning them 100m a year and we'll have a slightly better playing squad.
Meanwhile these kids they keep churning out will help keep them afloat and outweigh the debt.
Someone, somewhere down the line will inherit a decent squad, a youth set up the envy of the world, a stunning stadium and all the money in the world for transfers.
Id rather be them than us. The stadium is everything.
[/quote]

not really, you need success on the pitch too (i.e. newcastle/sunderland, big grounds bit shit all) - stadium helps, but success is more important
[/quote]Thats kinda my point. Take Sunderland as an example and compare them with say Charlton.
Sunderland relegated and skint, but their 55k stadium means they dont fall to pieces and continue to sign players and stay competetive and within a season are back in the big leagues.
Charlton relegated they get gates of 8 to 15k and within 2 years are freefalling like Ipswich, Oxford, Southampton, Luton etc.
Obviously neither us or Arsenal will be relegated but you get my point right? Arsenal would start from a higher position but the principle is the same. They may drop from the champions league but the revenue that their 65k stadium creates will ensure its a short stay.
Theres a very good reason why Barcelona and Real OWN the spanish league, and Inter, Ac and Juventus own Italy, and bayern etc.
Newcastle have been poorly run for years or they would be well in the top 4 or 5.

 

[red_maradona]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34955.msg913911#msg913911 date=1248815338]
[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=34955.msg913884#msg913884 date=1248813882]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34955.msg913443#msg913443 date=1248780562]
They offset a lot of their expenditure against anticipated sale of highbury real estate and the economic downturn hit them hard.
BUT, rather than borrow heavily to increase overall debt, (they have turned down massive 100m+ loans from the russian Usmanov and the American whos name escapes me Kraft?) they have trusted Wenger to essentially get blood from a stone and keep them in the top 4 with whatever they can give him untill such times as the debt on Ashburton is paid up.
Its easy for us to laugh and point, but in reality neither team is winning anything, we're servicing debt on loans theyre servicing debt on real estate. Meaning in 3 or 4 years time both teams will be debt free but they will have a 60k state of the art stadium earning them 100m a year and we'll have a slightly better playing squad.
Meanwhile these kids they keep churning out will help keep them afloat and outweigh the debt.
Someone, somewhere down the line will inherit a decent squad, a youth set up the envy of the world, a stunning stadium and all the money in the world for transfers.
Id rather be them than us. The stadium is everything.
[/quote]

not really, you need success on the pitch too (i.e. newcastle/sunderland, big grounds bit shit all) - stadium helps, but success is more important
[/quote]Thats kinda my point. Take Sunderland as an example and compare them with say Charlton.
Sunderland relegated and skint, but their 55k stadium means they dont fall to pieces and continue to sign players and stay competetive and within a season are back in the big leagues.
Charlton relegated they get gates of 8 to 15k and within 2 years are freefalling like Ipswich, Oxford, Southampton, Luton etc.
Obviously neither us or Arsenal will be relegated but you get my point right? Arsenal would start from a higher position but the principle is the same. They may drop from the champions league but the revenue that their 65k stadium creates will ensure its a short stay.
Theres a very good reason why Barcelona and Real OWN the spanish league, and Inter, Ac and Juventus own Italy, and bayern etc.
Newcastle have been poorly run for years or they would be well in the top 4 or 5.
[/quote]

if you are concerned about surviving relegation and going up again then sure a stadium is important and help mitigate against the worst of the financial problems. if you are concerned about winning titles and keeping in the elite that just having a big stadium is not going to be the only factor. I agree it is important, but if you don't have the success on the pitch then you could have the buggest stadium in the world and still be crap.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=34955.msg913917#msg913917 date=1248815586]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34955.msg913911#msg913911 date=1248815338]
[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=34955.msg913884#msg913884 date=1248813882]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34955.msg913443#msg913443 date=1248780562]
They offset a lot of their expenditure against anticipated sale of highbury real estate and the economic downturn hit them hard.
BUT, rather than borrow heavily to increase overall debt, (they have turned down massive 100m+ loans from the russian Usmanov and the American whos name escapes me Kraft?) they have trusted Wenger to essentially get blood from a stone and keep them in the top 4 with whatever they can give him untill such times as the debt on Ashburton is paid up.
Its easy for us to laugh and point, but in reality neither team is winning anything, we're servicing debt on loans theyre servicing debt on real estate. Meaning in 3 or 4 years time both teams will be debt free but they will have a 60k state of the art stadium earning them 100m a year and we'll have a slightly better playing squad.
Meanwhile these kids they keep churning out will help keep them afloat and outweigh the debt.
Someone, somewhere down the line will inherit a decent squad, a youth set up the envy of the world, a stunning stadium and all the money in the world for transfers.
Id rather be them than us. The stadium is everything.
[/quote]

not really, you need success on the pitch too (i.e. newcastle/sunderland, big grounds bit shit all) - stadium helps, but success is more important
[/quote]Thats kinda my point. Take Sunderland as an example and compare them with say Charlton.
Sunderland relegated and skint, but their 55k stadium means they dont fall to pieces and continue to sign players and stay competetive and within a season are back in the big leagues.
Charlton relegated they get gates of 8 to 15k and within 2 years are freefalling like Ipswich, Oxford, Southampton, Luton etc.
Obviously neither us or Arsenal will be relegated but you get my point right? Arsenal would start from a higher position but the principle is the same. They may drop from the champions league but the revenue that their 65k stadium creates will ensure its a short stay.
Theres a very good reason why Barcelona and Real OWN the spanish league, and Inter, Ac and Juventus own Italy, and bayern etc.
Newcastle have been poorly run for years or they would be well in the top 4 or 5.
[/quote]

if you are concerned about surviving relegation and going up again then sure a stadium is important and help mitigate against the worst of the financial problems. if you are concerned about winning titles and keeping in the elite that just having a big stadium is not going to be the only factor. I agree it is important, but if you don't have the success on the pitch then you could have the buggest stadium in the world and still be crap.
[/quote]Well effectively what i am talking about is survival, not winning titles. But you get me point.

 

[Ryan]

Apparenty Eboue's signing for Fiorentina for 6M odd.

 

[Garmy]

Let's sign Wenger to work alongside King Kenny :🙂

 

[jexykrodic]

Whilst a new stadium is important I'm surprised anyone would think it key.

Income generated from ticket sales now pales in comparison with prospects for TV rights or merchandising around the world.

In this regard Liverpool have a much better reach than Arsenal, if I were asked to generate income I would target TV rights and merchandise ahead of UK ticket sales.

Arsenal are a safe, solid club with great UK support and will always be competitive but they are not a world club; with or without Wenger.

 

[Rosco]

TV and Sponsorship and tickets sales is where the money is, not merchandising.

 

[LarryHagman]

If a stadium wasn't key we wouldn't want a new one would we? And Arsenal wouldn't have bothered. And Utd wouldn't extend every 2 years.
Didn't someone say we lose 2mil a game compared to the Mancs?

 

[Y1]

If merchandising is not improtant, why would Real Madrid pays over the odd for CR, Kaka, Beckham, etc

 

[Squiggles]

Nobody is saying merchandising isn't important...

But having a packed out monster stadium is the greatest asset a club can have.