Henderson, Adam and Gerrard

[mark1975]

Agger wasn't left exposed, Johnson (for once, doing the positional stuff) tucked in to cover so him and Agger were acting centre backs in the correct positions and between them they could have closed the space to block the shot, the gap wasn't that great for their player to run into, it was the split second during the burst into the box when they both stood there like rabbits caught in the headlights that cost us. Eventually you see Agger move across to try to stick a leg out and block the shot, but by then it's too late.

Shit defending all round.

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48420.msg1470143#msg1470143 date=1327488664]
Agger wasn't left exposed, Johnson (for once, doing the positional stuff) tucked in to cover so him and Agger were acting centre backs in the correct positions and between them they could have closed the space to block the shot, the gap wasn't that great for their player to run into, it was the split second during the burst into the box when they both stood there like rabbits caught in the headlights that cost us. Eventually you see Agger move across to try to stick a leg out and block the shot, but by then it's too late.

Shit defending all round.
[/quote]

I really disagree. Johnson is to far out and dont make it in to cover. Enrique is to far left, hence Agger is facing one Bolton player with two other Bolton players between him and Enrique. Whatever move he makes it will be wrong. If he sold himself it would be the easiset pass ever for Davies to set up two others on blank goal.

 

[mark1975]

if he had closed down the gap he'd have bought us more time and other things come into play - a tighter angle for the attackers, time for Reina to close the ball down, the chance of offside. It shouldn't be a case of one or the other, he did neither so they scored anyway.

 

[Insignificance]

They came storming three against him. Surely he could have made fool of himself in many different ways. But from Davies gets the ball to it is the back of the net it takes a few seconds, and how on earth reina or others should have positioned themselves different when the damage was done is a mystery to me. The goal was totally the midfields fault, and they let their defence down for the next goal also. I just saw it again and I can see how i.e. Enrique and Johnosn could have moved in central as soon as Skrtel made his move, and helped that way. But they didn't. Enrique let two players in between him and Agger.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48420.msg1470151#msg1470151 date=1327489269]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48420.msg1470143#msg1470143 date=1327488664]
Agger wasn't left exposed, Johnson (for once, doing the positional stuff) tucked in to cover so him and Agger were acting centre backs in the correct positions and between them they could have closed the space to block the shot, the gap wasn't that great for their player to run into, it was the split second during the burst into the box when they both stood there like rabbits caught in the headlights that cost us. Eventually you see Agger move across to try to stick a leg out and block the shot, but by then it's too late.

Shit defending all round.
[/quote]

I really disagree. Johnson is to far out and dont make it in to cover. Enrique is to far left, hence Agger is facing one Bolton player with two other Bolton players between him and Enrique. Whatever move he makes it will be wrong. If he sold himself it would be the easiset pass ever for Davies to set up two others on blank goal.
[/quote]

This is fundamentally incorrect. Just ask any defender. Alan Hansen bleats on about it all the time. In that situation, your priority has to be to close down the ball. It's the basics of defending.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=48420.msg1470166#msg1470166 date=1327493493]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48420.msg1470151#msg1470151 date=1327489269]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48420.msg1470143#msg1470143 date=1327488664]
Agger wasn't left exposed, Johnson (for once, doing the positional stuff) tucked in to cover so him and Agger were acting centre backs in the correct positions and between them they could have closed the space to block the shot, the gap wasn't that great for their player to run into, it was the split second during the burst into the box when they both stood there like rabbits caught in the headlights that cost us. Eventually you see Agger move across to try to stick a leg out and block the shot, but by then it's too late.

Shit defending all round.
[/quote]

I really disagree. Johnson is to far out and dont make it in to cover. Enrique is to far left, hence Agger is facing one Bolton player with two other Bolton players between him and Enrique. Whatever move he makes it will be wrong. If he sold himself it would be the easiset pass ever for Davies to set up two others on blank goal.
[/quote]

This is fundamentally incorrect. Just ask any defender. Alan Hansen bleats on about it all the time. In that situation, your priority has to be to close down the ball. It's the basics of defending.
[/quote]

Yup

Aggers blame for the goal is solely down to him not closing down quick enough

However if the midfield did its job then the goal wouldn't have occured

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=48420.msg1470166#msg1470166 date=1327493493]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48420.msg1470151#msg1470151 date=1327489269]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48420.msg1470143#msg1470143 date=1327488664]
Agger wasn't left exposed, Johnson (for once, doing the positional stuff) tucked in to cover so him and Agger were acting centre backs in the correct positions and between them they could have closed the space to block the shot, the gap wasn't that great for their player to run into, it was the split second during the burst into the box when they both stood there like rabbits caught in the headlights that cost us. Eventually you see Agger move across to try to stick a leg out and block the shot, but by then it's too late.

Shit defending all round.
[/quote]

I really disagree. Johnson is to far out and dont make it in to cover. Enrique is to far left, hence Agger is facing one Bolton player with two other Bolton players between him and Enrique. Whatever move he makes it will be wrong. If he sold himself it would be the easiset pass ever for Davies to set up two others on blank goal.
[/quote]

This is fundamentally incorrect. Just ask any defender. Alan Hansen bleats on about it all the time. In that situation, your priority has to be to close down the ball. It's the basics of defending.
[/quote]

if he had tried to close down the ball without any eye on the two Bolton players running in on his left hand Davies had made a very simple pass and everyone had slaughtered him for being a naive ball watcher. He had a lost case on his hand and lost it.

 

[mark1975]

By doing fuckall he lost his case, too many players failed to take responsibility. If he'd come across he'd have done his job and it would become an issue then for Enrique.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48420.msg1470175#msg1470175 date=1327494165]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=48420.msg1470166#msg1470166 date=1327493493]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48420.msg1470151#msg1470151 date=1327489269]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48420.msg1470143#msg1470143 date=1327488664]
Agger wasn't left exposed, Johnson (for once, doing the positional stuff) tucked in to cover so him and Agger were acting centre backs in the correct positions and between them they could have closed the space to block the shot, the gap wasn't that great for their player to run into, it was the split second during the burst into the box when they both stood there like rabbits caught in the headlights that cost us. Eventually you see Agger move across to try to stick a leg out and block the shot, but by then it's too late.

Shit defending all round.
[/quote]

I really disagree. Johnson is to far out and dont make it in to cover. Enrique is to far left, hence Agger is facing one Bolton player with two other Bolton players between him and Enrique. Whatever move he makes it will be wrong. If he sold himself it would be the easiset pass ever for Davies to set up two others on blank goal.
[/quote]

This is fundamentally incorrect. Just ask any defender. Alan Hansen bleats on about it all the time. In that situation, your priority has to be to close down the ball. It's the basics of defending.
[/quote]

if he had tried to close down the ball without any eye on the two Bolton players running in on his left hand Davies had made a very simple pass and everyone had slaughtered him for being a naive ball watcher. He had a lost case on his hand and lost it.
[/quote]

You're clearly not reading what I'm saying, or you're just too stubborn to acknowledge it.

Agger was left hopelessly exposed - everybody accepts that. You can talk about what people might have said had he closed the ball down, but it's irrelevant. I suspect had he closed the ball down and the ball had been released to another player to score, then the vast majority would acknowledge that Agger did all he could but was left hopelessly exposed by those in front of him. However, he didn't close the ball down, and said player just waltzed to our goal and scored. So he must accept some responsibility in that.

As I said, closing the ball down is one of the most basic rules of defending. That's an irrefutable fact.

I don't really know why I've laboured this point, because as previously stated, Agger has been largely excellent this season, and I refuse to hold one game against him. Suffice to say he was very rusty on his return, and it showed.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48420.msg1470190#msg1470190 date=1327495078]
By doing fuckall he lost his case, too many players failed to take responsibility. If he'd come across he'd have done his job and it would become an issue then for Enrique.
[/quote]

^^^

The whole team that night (bar bellers) was guilty of relying on other people

Actually, skrtel tried to not rely on others by being a defensive dynamo. Sadly he was let down by others

 

[Insignificance]

Well whatever. I cant see the value of both defenders selling themselves way outside the box.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48420.msg1470198#msg1470198 date=1327495566]
Well whatever. I cant see the value of both defenders selling themselves way outside the box.
[/quote]

It wasn't way outside the box, this was the POINT. He burst into the box and there was a split second where Johnson and Agger failed to react and then he took it in his stride and scored. A split second's reaction and neither of them did, they both stood there. No one needed to sell themselves at that point, they needed to close the gap between each other, if he played it to the other two Bolton players, they were wider and there was then the chance of Reina closing the angle, being caught offside or generally just giving us more time to recover, instead we made it easy for him.

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48420.msg1470419#msg1470419 date=1327517440]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48420.msg1470198#msg1470198 date=1327495566]
Well whatever. I cant see the value of both defenders selling themselves way outside the box.
[/quote]

It wasn't way outside the box, this was the POINT. He burst into the box and there was a split second where Johnson and Agger failed to react and then he took it in his stride and scored. A split second's reaction and neither of them did, they both stood there. No one needed to sell themselves at that point, they needed to close the gap between each other, if he played it to the other two Bolton players, they were wider and there was then the chance of Reina closing the angle, being caught offside or generally just giving us more time to recover, instead we made it easy for him.
[/quote]

Well, if he should have done what you expected him he had to do it way outside the box. Or he should do as he did and wait until Davies came into the box before he tried to close him down. Your far out here mate. Let it go 🙂

 

[keniget]

Are we talking about Bolton's first goal?

If so, Skrtel mared it. He came out and made a poor challenge, which left the defence exposed. Coming out of defence is fine, but don't dive in and let a defender turn you with such ease in such a dangerous position.

Johnson and Agger should've done better to bail him out, but it was poor by Skrtel in the first place to put them in that situation.

 

[Fabio]

Re: Re: Henderson, Adam and Gerrard

[quote author=keniget link=topic=48420.msg1#msg1 date=1327562147]
Are we talking about Bolton's first goal?

If so, Skrtel mared it. He came out and made a poor challenge, which left the defence exposed. Coming out of defence is fine, but don't dive in and let a defender turn you with such ease in such a dangerous position.

Johnson and Agger should've done better to bail him out, but it was poor by Skrtel in the first place to put them in that situation.
[/quote]

I think thats harsh. Skrtel was trying to cut out a fuck up by the midfield and their inability to shield

A good flick by n'gog caught skrtel out