From an interview in today's Observer. It's very honest and revealing...
That instantly made me wonder about Stevie. What kind of leader is he?
That instantly made me wonder about Stevie. What kind of leader is he?
Hansen quote
- Thread starter TheBunnyman
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The kind that pulls his team up by the socks when they're 3 nil down in the Champions League final and being totally outclassed and humiliated.
The kind that makes one goal and scores two in the FA cup final when everything is going against them.
The kind that for years and years has compensated for the mediocrity playing alongside him by being absolutely brilliant.
If we're judging him by the criteria of giving a bit extra when the team is doing badly over years, he's been a fantastic leader.
On the whole, no.. he's not been the best captain we've ever had and if you want someone to organize, cajole, motivate and what not, he's perhaps not always the best man for the job, but I think his abilities as captain get unfairly denigrated at times.
The kind that makes one goal and scores two in the FA cup final when everything is going against them.
The kind that for years and years has compensated for the mediocrity playing alongside him by being absolutely brilliant.
If we're judging him by the criteria of giving a bit extra when the team is doing badly over years, he's been a fantastic leader.
On the whole, no.. he's not been the best captain we've ever had and if you want someone to organize, cajole, motivate and what not, he's perhaps not always the best man for the job, but I think his abilities as captain get unfairly denigrated at times.
Except he's not
[quote author=keniget link=topic=40850.msg1130731#msg1130731 date=1278233178]
The kind that pulls his team up by the socks when they're 3 nil down in the Champions League final and being totally outclassed and humiliated.
The kind that makes one goal and scores two in the FA cup final when everything is going against them.
The kind that for years and years has compensated for the mediocrity playing alongside him by being absolutely brilliant.
If we're judging him by the criteria of giving a bit extra when the team is doing badly over years, he's been a fantastic leader.
On the whole, no.. he's not been the best captain we've ever had and if you want someone to organize, cajole, motivate and what not, he's perhaps not always the best man for the job, but I think his abilities as captain get unfairly denigrated at times.
[/quote]
Nail on the head.
The kind that pulls his team up by the socks when they're 3 nil down in the Champions League final and being totally outclassed and humiliated.
The kind that makes one goal and scores two in the FA cup final when everything is going against them.
The kind that for years and years has compensated for the mediocrity playing alongside him by being absolutely brilliant.
If we're judging him by the criteria of giving a bit extra when the team is doing badly over years, he's been a fantastic leader.
On the whole, no.. he's not been the best captain we've ever had and if you want someone to organize, cajole, motivate and what not, he's perhaps not always the best man for the job, but I think his abilities as captain get unfairly denigrated at times.
[/quote]
Nail on the head.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=40850.msg1130731#msg1130731 date=1278233178]
The kind that pulls his team up by the socks when they're 3 nil down in the Champions League final and being totally outclassed and humiliated.
The kind that makes one goal and scores two in the FA cup final when everything is going against them.
The kind that for years and years has compensated for the mediocrity playing alongside him by being absolutely brilliant.
If we're judging him by the criteria of giving a bit extra when the team is doing badly over years, he's been a fantastic leader.
On the whole, no.. he's not been the best captain we've ever had and if you want someone to organize, cajole, motivate and what not, he's perhaps not always the best man for the job, but I think his abilities as captain get unfairly denigrated at times.
[/quote]
All good points, but you're generally talking here about cup competitions. Given that what Gerrard wants most of all is to win the league with Liverpool, for me he's never shown the necessary spirit on a consistent enough basis to be considered a great leader. And last season, when things really did go badly, he just went missing.
The kind that pulls his team up by the socks when they're 3 nil down in the Champions League final and being totally outclassed and humiliated.
The kind that makes one goal and scores two in the FA cup final when everything is going against them.
The kind that for years and years has compensated for the mediocrity playing alongside him by being absolutely brilliant.
If we're judging him by the criteria of giving a bit extra when the team is doing badly over years, he's been a fantastic leader.
On the whole, no.. he's not been the best captain we've ever had and if you want someone to organize, cajole, motivate and what not, he's perhaps not always the best man for the job, but I think his abilities as captain get unfairly denigrated at times.
[/quote]
All good points, but you're generally talking here about cup competitions. Given that what Gerrard wants most of all is to win the league with Liverpool, for me he's never shown the necessary spirit on a consistent enough basis to be considered a great leader. And last season, when things really did go badly, he just went missing.
Bunnyman,
I think you are basing a lot of that on last season.
I can't think of another season he was less than extraordinary in the league for at least 90 % of the games in a season.
He is a bloody good captain to have.
I never understood all this blind Carra love and suggestion that he would have made a better Captain. Just because the man can't stop shouting....he does that with or without the armband. What difference does it make?
I think you are basing a lot of that on last season.
I can't think of another season he was less than extraordinary in the league for at least 90 % of the games in a season.
He is a bloody good captain to have.
I never understood all this blind Carra love and suggestion that he would have made a better Captain. Just because the man can't stop shouting....he does that with or without the armband. What difference does it make?
You're right about Gerrard's league form, but it does not follow from that that he made a good captain. Too often he was either complaining about not being given the ball or withdrawing into a sulk and leaving others, mainly Carra, to rally the troops. His frustrations at what was going on around him were understandable, but too often the way he expressed them wasn't worthy of a leader.
Hansen and Gerrard are two of our best ever players, were/are great captains, and will be remembered as Liverpool FC legends
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=40850.msg1130980#msg1130980 date=1278272075]
You're right about Gerrard's league form, but it does not follow from that that he made a good captain. Too often he was either complaining about not being given the ball or withdrawing into a sulk and leaving others, mainly Carra, to rally the troops. His frustrations at what was going on around him were understandable, but too often the way he expressed them wasn't worthy of a leader.
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Agree to an extent on the Captaincy issue.
Sulking on the pitch and showing his frustrations very openly is a poor trait. But i don't see that Carra was any better at that. The Arbeloa incident comes to mind. He whiges as much as Stevie does, if not more.
On the other hand he has had the absolute respect of everyone who came and played for us. He often led the team by setting example. I don't think Carra scored as high as Gerrard did on those counts.
Where Carra is definitely better than Gerrard is at 'working the referee'. Gerrard lost a lot of credibility when he started diving around. Sometimes he also doesn't even contest a decision. Any captain that Arsenal, Chelsea and United have fielded have done that to telling effect. He also fell in the eyes of the media after his recent issues in personal life.
I think it is the individual bias that makes people say Carra or Gerrard is the better captain. I'm biased more towards Gerrard.
You're right about Gerrard's league form, but it does not follow from that that he made a good captain. Too often he was either complaining about not being given the ball or withdrawing into a sulk and leaving others, mainly Carra, to rally the troops. His frustrations at what was going on around him were understandable, but too often the way he expressed them wasn't worthy of a leader.
[/quote]
Agree to an extent on the Captaincy issue.
Sulking on the pitch and showing his frustrations very openly is a poor trait. But i don't see that Carra was any better at that. The Arbeloa incident comes to mind. He whiges as much as Stevie does, if not more.
On the other hand he has had the absolute respect of everyone who came and played for us. He often led the team by setting example. I don't think Carra scored as high as Gerrard did on those counts.
Where Carra is definitely better than Gerrard is at 'working the referee'. Gerrard lost a lot of credibility when he started diving around. Sometimes he also doesn't even contest a decision. Any captain that Arsenal, Chelsea and United have fielded have done that to telling effect. He also fell in the eyes of the media after his recent issues in personal life.
I think it is the individual bias that makes people say Carra or Gerrard is the better captain. I'm biased more towards Gerrard.
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