[quote author=Sunny link=topic=48180.msg1459329#msg1459329 date=1325980166]
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=48180.msg1459268#msg1459268 date=1325977617]
Or ask any scousers out there, do any of you give a shit how your club is viewed from outside? or your city is viewed by the rest of us.
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Well I can answer from one point of view of course Asim and the answer is no, not really. And I'll explain why. Liverpool, as a city, has generally always felt somewhat disconnected from the rest of the country. It probably started in 1916 during the transport strike, which started in Liverpool, and was ferociously put down by the Army on Bloody Tuesday. That feeling was of course compounded in the 1980s by Thatcher and her cronies who it's now known wanted Liverpool to rot away. I guess we've always regarded ourselves as an afterthought by most governments and that's bred a feeling of insularity within the city. We look after our own and protect our own as best we can as we don't expect help from anywhere else to do that. That insularity and the fact we can be quite outspoken has probably not warmed us to other parts of the country and there's a large proportion who really don't like us as a city or a people. Generally those who've never really been to the city or taken the time or trouble to get to know us - those that do generally tend to have a positive experience. Like all cities though there's a large negative element - that's undeniable. There's people in this city who turn my stomach.
For me though the main reason why I don't really give a shit because it's pointless anyway. We're labelled with a stereotype which is unfounded - I myself, and as Woland has stated, have had to put with loads of "thieving" and "dishonest" jibes and digs throughout my professional and personal life at times but I really don't get arsed because I just feel the people making those jibes are bigoted fuckwits anyway and not worthy of a rise in temper. Besides, most get made out to look cunts with a sharp comeback anyway. The funniest thing about it all though is, when we do speak out and stand up for ourselves as people or a city we just get accused of playing the "victim" card or "wallowing in self pity" anyway. Do you see what I mean? It's fucking pointless. People have narrow minded and bigoted opinions of us just like certain morons in this city, and other cities, have of other races. You can't change that easily. We are defensive about our city because, regardless what others may have about it, we are proud of it and our heritage for the most part. There's obvious episodes in the city's history where no pride can be gained.
As for the footy club. It was built up by the people of this city and turned into a massive global institution due to the work of many scouse and great non-scousers to make it what it is today. It's not "our" team as in scousers it's "ours" as in everyone who's part of it. That includes you Asim. I do think that some fans feel differently about the club than others - I only have to look at some of the shit thrown about on here about our club the see that and attitudes may be different for different people in different regions. Like our city, the Liverpool reds are proud of their team and will defend as they would defend their city. It's in our siege mentality but I don't think that's a mentality exclusive to scousers any more. We're used to other people in this country knocking our city and the people within it. Fuck them. We're used to the media slagging off the city and club. Fuck them. We're used to other footy fans stupidly hating us and labelling us all as murderers and now racists. Fuck them all. Most don't give a fuck here where I live - we'll probably joke about it more than anything. If people want to form an opinion on the city - come here first and then do it by all means but forming an opinion on something you don't really know fuck all about is completely naive and narrow minded.
If you lived here you'd understand what I'm piping on about Asim. This city gets knocked all the time, constantly - but I really shouldn't say that as I may come across as the victim and I'm not doing that - because I'm just really not that arsed. I can tell you one thing though - almost every person I meet from outside the city, mainly through the football club, has had a positive and welcoming experience of this city.
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This is a great post. It's absolutely bang on.
It doesn't change the fact that this issue is adding to some difficult to articulate ideas on identity and heritage and all that that have been floating round in my head, which lead me towards the futility of feeling part of a group joined together by accidentals such as where you're born or what footy team you support, and that muddies these waters for me. But regarding Liverpool, Sunny is bang on. I'd say the distrust of the city goes back a bit further than the turn of last century though. It's to do with the Irish and Catholic connections. Portly - am I talking garbage again?
