I for one will never acknowledge that Suarez changed his evidence at the hearing to claim he never said the word negro, because it didn't happen.
Fake Carragher
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I for one will never acknowledge that Suarez changed his evidence at the hearing to claim he never said the word negro, because it didn't happen.
New Improved 6CM: "Now with MORE squabbling autists!"
Not really read the thread.
But Suarez used racist language. Doesn't mean he is a racist. You'd have to know him personally to make such a judgement.
However, as a black person, he actually brought incredible shame on the club and made it difficult for many black fans to support him. It would have been much better if he just held up his hands and said he got into a heated exchanged and used language to try and upset Evra.
The way the club behaved was embarrassing and disappointing. We should have encouraged him to accept the punishment. He made things worst when he refused to shake Evras hand. Sure, I saw some hesitation in Evra, but that shouldn't have stopped Luis from extending his hand or going back. He basically refused to do so because PE ratted him out.
He put the club in a very difficult position. Kenny too, took a lot of wrap for the way he handled it. Tarnished his image in many football fans' eyes.
Carra shouldn't actually be the one apologising here. Luis should be. Both to Evra and our fans.
Cos again, he put us into a situation where we were effectively defending the indefensible. Some fans till this day still defend Luis by attacking PE's character. It doesn't matter what you think of PE as a person, whether he said mean things to Luis beforehand, or what he done in the past/future, he didn't deserve racist abuse on that day.
It's like defending a rapist by attacking the character of the woman who's been raped.. "But she was a cunt though.. What was she wearing when she got raped.. You shouldn't have been showing so much skin.. It's your own fault."
Erm, no.. PE might be the biggest cunt in the world, but that's no justification for being racially abused and we shouldnt be trying to bring up his character as a way of deflecting from the main issue. One Luis Suarez and his racist language.
Anyways, thankfully, I think nearly everyone involved in that embarrassing affair has left their role at the club. And from the players only Henderson remains.
But Suarez used racist language. Doesn't mean he is a racist. You'd have to know him personally to make such a judgement.
However, as a black person, he actually brought incredible shame on the club and made it difficult for many black fans to support him. It would have been much better if he just held up his hands and said he got into a heated exchanged and used language to try and upset Evra.
The way the club behaved was embarrassing and disappointing. We should have encouraged him to accept the punishment. He made things worst when he refused to shake Evras hand. Sure, I saw some hesitation in Evra, but that shouldn't have stopped Luis from extending his hand or going back. He basically refused to do so because PE ratted him out.
He put the club in a very difficult position. Kenny too, took a lot of wrap for the way he handled it. Tarnished his image in many football fans' eyes.
Carra shouldn't actually be the one apologising here. Luis should be. Both to Evra and our fans.
Cos again, he put us into a situation where we were effectively defending the indefensible. Some fans till this day still defend Luis by attacking PE's character. It doesn't matter what you think of PE as a person, whether he said mean things to Luis beforehand, or what he done in the past/future, he didn't deserve racist abuse on that day.
It's like defending a rapist by attacking the character of the woman who's been raped.. "But she was a cunt though.. What was she wearing when she got raped.. You shouldn't have been showing so much skin.. It's your own fault."
Erm, no.. PE might be the biggest cunt in the world, but that's no justification for being racially abused and we shouldnt be trying to bring up his character as a way of deflecting from the main issue. One Luis Suarez and his racist language.
Anyways, thankfully, I think nearly everyone involved in that embarrassing affair has left their role at the club. And from the players only Henderson remains.
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In all fairness, I think I should explain what did happen:
(1) Suarez kicked Evra in his knee because Evra is a cunt, Evra rolls around on the floor, Kuyt tells him to get the fuck up
(2) After several minutes Evra fires those few neurons in his head and decides to have a go at provoking Suarez to get him sent off
(3) He goes over to him whining about it, calls his sister a cunt, and goes on about the foul
(4) Suarez shrugs his shoulders, tells him to chill out and get the fuck over it
(5) The disputed facts follow of who then said what, when, where, they get spoken to by the ref, Kuyt steps in
(6) During this time Evra probably said "don't touch me" possibly appended with "sudaca" or a similar racial slur, Suarez used the word "negro" probably in the context of "why not, is it cos you is black" and pinched his skin in the context of "I can touch you, what the fuck you gonna do about it?"
(7) Evra knows the word "negro", and goes to tell the ref he was called "black" to try get Suarez sent off, he tells the same thing "black" to other players
(8) Ferguson and Evra go into the referees office after the game, and say that Evra was called "Nigger", obviously because Ferguson is a despicable fucking cunt who wanted to turn it into bonafide racism to get Suarez banned (during the hearing the panel jumped through hoops to explain away why Evra changed from black, to nigger, to black again, primarily saying he "thought negro meant nigger, but he told the ref and teammates black because he doesn't like using the word nigger, forgetting the time he used it to call chelsea players niggers - and you believe him because you're the one not engaging with the facts)
(9) The club is now panicking about the nigger allegation, sit Suarez down, and he tells him he said "because you are black", the club breathe a sigh of relief, and pass this on to the refs
(10) Now the FA get involved, and all parties now see what the charge is, where the wording makes it clear there is no difference between nigger and black, both are racial offences, Ferguson then changes the story back to being called black, Suarez/Comolli think for fucks sake, this is bullshit, and come up with the "porque negro" defence to avoid getting banned over saying the word "black"
(11) The rest is history
That's just facts. Not fake news. Not idiocy. Facts.
(1) Suarez kicked Evra in his knee because Evra is a cunt, Evra rolls around on the floor, Kuyt tells him to get the fuck up
(2) After several minutes Evra fires those few neurons in his head and decides to have a go at provoking Suarez to get him sent off
(3) He goes over to him whining about it, calls his sister a cunt, and goes on about the foul
(4) Suarez shrugs his shoulders, tells him to chill out and get the fuck over it
(5) The disputed facts follow of who then said what, when, where, they get spoken to by the ref, Kuyt steps in
(6) During this time Evra probably said "don't touch me" possibly appended with "sudaca" or a similar racial slur, Suarez used the word "negro" probably in the context of "why not, is it cos you is black" and pinched his skin in the context of "I can touch you, what the fuck you gonna do about it?"
(7) Evra knows the word "negro", and goes to tell the ref he was called "black" to try get Suarez sent off, he tells the same thing "black" to other players
(8) Ferguson and Evra go into the referees office after the game, and say that Evra was called "Nigger", obviously because Ferguson is a despicable fucking cunt who wanted to turn it into bonafide racism to get Suarez banned (during the hearing the panel jumped through hoops to explain away why Evra changed from black, to nigger, to black again, primarily saying he "thought negro meant nigger, but he told the ref and teammates black because he doesn't like using the word nigger, forgetting the time he used it to call chelsea players niggers - and you believe him because you're the one not engaging with the facts)
(9) The club is now panicking about the nigger allegation, sit Suarez down, and he tells him he said "because you are black", the club breathe a sigh of relief, and pass this on to the refs
(10) Now the FA get involved, and all parties now see what the charge is, where the wording makes it clear there is no difference between nigger and black, both are racial offences, Ferguson then changes the story back to being called black, Suarez/Comolli think for fucks sake, this is bullshit, and come up with the "porque negro" defence to avoid getting banned over saying the word "black"
(11) The rest is history
That's just facts. Not fake news. Not idiocy. Facts.
Sorry you're talking pure fake news, and your concept of what racism actually is has been totally corrupted by the fake news.
I think someone who is black probably does have a pretty good grasp of what the concept of racism is
Unless you were there on the field. I think it's hard to believe your story, especially when Suarez's defence effectively amounted to..
"I was being affectionate to PE, in my country Negro means black..."
Ok.. And even I was to believe your wonderful account of events.. And I was to believe Suarez about negro in his country being black, sure, I am not gonna believe that you were being affectionate in any months of Sundays. And even still, he shouldn't be referencing his colour in any context. Why not just say to Evra, its because you are a cunt that I kicked you?
It was silly for Luis to reference colour and your defence of it is equally silly.
Are you arguing with me? And you just used the word "black" during this argument? Racist!!!
ibromurph is a Poster Of Colour
He had to say he used the word affectionately, because the wording of FA Rule E3 is abusive and/or insulting. So his only play is to prove it wasn't insulting, hence he had to lie to say it was said with affection. When you are not being racist, but the country redefines racism to ban you, forcing you to lie, then at that point the country can go fuck itself, and all future incidents of racism should be met with who cares, deal with it bro. That's my position.
You are effectively more empathetic with the abuser as opposed to the victim in this case because the victim was a Manc scumbag backed by Old Ginsoak. I get it.
But us defending him, lies and all, unfortunately brought great shame on the club at the time. There's no real way of getting around that.
Where your understanding is corrupted is the word "black" was not insulting, the context was to abuse/insult/troll Evra, but he did not do that using the word "black". By the same logic, he used the word "because" in the same phrase, but you wouldn't class "because" as being an insult. The same god damn thing applies to the word "black". The FA brushed that massive flaw under the carpet, and interpreted FA Rule E3 in an idiotic way. The same way this entire country now interprets racism. Meanwhile the actual racists and racism is having a field day because all they need to do is watch their vocabulary and bob's your uncle.
Like I said.. He used language that could be interpreted as racist. He should have held his hands up and accepted it. Apologised and said he didnt realise it was so offensive in this country. That would have been a fair argument. Instead of lying and trying to escape punishment or throw shade on PE.
This is why i said, him using racist language doesn't mean he's a racist. I, as a black person, could call him a French cunt.. And that would be using racist language.. But wouldn't mean I was a racist.
Like you said, the real racists are the ones watching their language but are in seats of power making decisions that make people of colour lives more difficult.
For Evra to then sit on SkySports talking about how the solution is to educate kids about racism, while carragher sits there nodding along, they can both go fuck themselves. The opportunity to educate was in 2011. It's now 2019, and their hapless inability to deal with or even talk about racism without tying themselves up in knots was totally predictable in 2011. Avoiding that, and educating people is why I supported Suarez and probably why most people did. To then be told it was embarrassing and even getting blamed for the state of 2019, fuck me, I just hope nobody dares say that to my face, or they won't see 2020.
That's not "real racists", just more dangerous ones
You don't get it. His language wasn't racially offensive. So you want him to apologise to get away with a light ban, using a fake apology for something he didn't do. Well, in that case you might as well lie and get away with the whole thing if you can, which is what he opted for.
Yeah. I agree.
The term "real racists" does actually bother me. And almost makes an excuse for racists to point the finger and say.. Nah, but those are the real ones over there.
It's about time that someone spoke up for the rich old white people who almost exclusively find themselves involved in the lucrative but petty governance of sport.
Hey, you talk about education and when a black person tries to educate you on how we see things.. You say "no, but you don't get it". Erm, ok. I guess I don't. I've been around these parts long enough Dantes to know when your mind is fixed on something, you are not for turning..
As you were...
It's sad, but against all odds, I think this thread entitled "fake carragher" isn't actually going to end up being a productive discussion about racism.
Haha you'd have to discuss something in science or mathematics to see me change my mind.
Science and Mathematics are all just agreed "theory" practices. They're not necessarily factual.
1 + 1 only equals to 2, because everyone agrees it should.
So I can't even see that changing your mind ultimately.
What the actual fuck are you on about?
Science is not a place for fucking metaphysical musings.
Your understanding of discourse is as anachronistic as being a flat-earther.
Hahaha. Neither is a 6CM football forum.
Mind you, I'm probably going to use that one Brendan. Although I'd probably have gone with "Metafuckingphysical musings".
Actually our dear poster of colour is getting at something called godel's incompleteness theorem, a totally brilliant bit of logical reasoning...
The crucial difference is they're wrong, whilst I'm right.
This thread (just about) decided that racism wasn't justified even for cunts.
(Thanks for including the 'rich' - the category now excludes me. 🙂 ).
Does 1 racist + 1 racist = 2 racists?
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