Dirk Kuyt is shit

[Ryan]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=44451.msg1296274#msg1296274 date=1299459294]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44451.msg1296269#msg1296269 date=1299458581]
I "blindly defend him" because of what he contributes, as opposed to some inane stubborness which you seem to think I have.

He scores double figures every year.
He scores in the biggest of games, all the fucking time. In Europe, in the League, and when it matters most.
He's second in assists to Gerrard alone.
He works his absolute ugly cock off every week.
He loves the club, the fans, his teammates, and is a perfect example to younger players coming through.

What more do you want from him?

I'm more than happy to have a debate with you about his merits too. Please, fire the fuck away.
[/quote]

If there wasn't stubbornness mate, you'd be comfortable admitting what Dee posted (or Ross alluded to). He starts all the time, despite what you list (which is true), because of the state of our squad. I'm rather confident we'd be top 4 had he started the whole year up front, instead of that whining cunt ... but that doesn't mean I don't want him dropped when he enters his bad patches, which I'm sure you acknowledge too.

Themn - whenever I think of 'drowning kittens', I think of Torres's interview where he said he did it.
[/quote]

"He starts because of the state of our squad".

Absolute. Arse. Gravy.

We could sign Tevez and Messi and Dirk would still start. Have a look at the players that sit on the bench for Holland whilst Dirk starts for them too.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44451.msg1296276#msg1296276 date=1299459611]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=44451.msg1296274#msg1296274 date=1299459294]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44451.msg1296269#msg1296269 date=1299458581]
I "blindly defend him" because of what he contributes, as opposed to some inane stubborness which you seem to think I have.

He scores double figures every year.
He scores in the biggest of games, all the fucking time. In Europe, in the League, and when it matters most.
He's second in assists to Gerrard alone.
He works his absolute ugly cock off every week.
He loves the club, the fans, his teammates, and is a perfect example to younger players coming through.

What more do you want from him?

I'm more than happy to have a debate with you about his merits too. Please, fire the fuck away.
[/quote]

If there wasn't stubbornness mate, you'd be comfortable admitting what Dee posted (or Ross alluded to). He starts all the time, despite what you list (which is true), because of the state of our squad. I'm rather confident we'd be top 4 had he started the whole year up front, instead of that whining cunt ... but that doesn't mean I don't want him dropped when he enters his bad patches, which I'm sure you acknowledge too.

Themn - whenever I think of 'drowning kittens', I think of Torres's interview where he said he did it.
[/quote]

"He starts because of the state of our squad".

Absolute. Arse. Gravy.

We could sign Tevez and Messi and Dirk would still start. Have a look at the players that sit on the bench for Holland whilst Dirk starts for them too.
[/quote]

You're being ridiculous mate - how many threads have you seen where posters whom you feel 'fall in line' with your view of Kuyt say "he's having a horrific run of games," "bad patch for Kuyt" etc etc. That is when he should be benched ... It doesn't mean he shouldn't be a part of this squad, or anything like that, but I don't think he should be a guaranteed started.

Do you see Manure's Kuyt (Park) start every game?

 

[RedZeppelin]

What annoys me is when Dirk's most ardent supporters pull the "well if you don't see what he offers then you don't know anything about football" argument . Well of course I see what he offers and it's like Eamon Dunphy bangs on about in his book , he's the sort of pro that others , even the most skillful players , love to play with . But why can't we call a spade a spade and acknowledge that too often he offers little when played out wide and is prone to serious dips in form. And when he's off form he can be terrible , makes the wrong choice so often . Am I saying to sell him ? no , just that i really think we'd see the benefit of a more creative , skillful , pacier player in that position over the course of a season.

Anyway , none of that takes away from a great performance today , I'm watching it again now and there was just a passage where he was chasing the whole United defence down across their back line and finally hurries one into a mistake and wins the ball , great stuff .

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=44451.msg1296280#msg1296280 date=1299459971]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44451.msg1296276#msg1296276 date=1299459611]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=44451.msg1296274#msg1296274 date=1299459294]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44451.msg1296269#msg1296269 date=1299458581]
I "blindly defend him" because of what he contributes, as opposed to some inane stubborness which you seem to think I have.

He scores double figures every year.
He scores in the biggest of games, all the fucking time. In Europe, in the League, and when it matters most.
He's second in assists to Gerrard alone.
He works his absolute ugly cock off every week.
He loves the club, the fans, his teammates, and is a perfect example to younger players coming through.

What more do you want from him?

I'm more than happy to have a debate with you about his merits too. Please, fire the fuck away.
[/quote]

If there wasn't stubbornness mate, you'd be comfortable admitting what Dee posted (or Ross alluded to). He starts all the time, despite what you list (which is true), because of the state of our squad. I'm rather confident we'd be top 4 had he started the whole year up front, instead of that whining cunt ... but that doesn't mean I don't want him dropped when he enters his bad patches, which I'm sure you acknowledge too.

Themn - whenever I think of 'drowning kittens', I think of Torres's interview where he said he did it.
[/quote]

"He starts because of the state of our squad".

Absolute. Arse. Gravy.

We could sign Tevez and Messi and Dirk would still start. Have a look at the players that sit on the bench for Holland whilst Dirk starts for them too.
[/quote]

You're being ridiculous mate - how many threads have you seen where posters whom you feel 'fall in line' with your view of Kuyt say "he's having a horrific run of games," "bad patch for Kuyt" etc etc. That is when he should be benched ... It doesn't mean he shouldn't be a part of this squad, or anything like that, but I don't think he should be a guaranteed started.

Do you see Manure's Kuyt (Park) start every game?
[/quote]

Park's nowhere near as good as Kuyt, so I don't see your point.

I'd like to engage with you on this, but I'm not sure which line of debate you're going with - 2 seconds ago it was the state of our squad as the primary reason why Dirk plays - which is absolutely fucking ludicrous, given the statistics handed to you on his continued contribution, and now it's his supposed 'poor runs of form'. What exactly is your fucking point mate, cos I'm struggling to follow what you're on about?

Tell you what, I'll steer you back on track. Name me some players who've contributed more in terms of assists and goals over the last 3/4 years in this league. You'll be able to name a few no doubt, and they'll all be quality players - cos that's the sort of player Dirk Kuyt is.

"only gets in the team cos of the state of the squad" my absolute fucking arse hole.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44451.msg1296276#msg1296276 date=1299459611]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=44451.msg1296274#msg1296274 date=1299459294]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44451.msg1296269#msg1296269 date=1299458581]
I "blindly defend him" because of what he contributes, as opposed to some inane stubborness which you seem to think I have.

He scores double figures every year.
He scores in the biggest of games, all the fucking time. In Europe, in the League, and when it matters most.
He's second in assists to Gerrard alone.
He works his absolute ugly cock off every week.
He loves the club, the fans, his teammates, and is a perfect example to younger players coming through.

What more do you want from him?

I'm more than happy to have a debate with you about his merits too. Please, fire the fuck away.
[/quote]

If there wasn't stubbornness mate, you'd be comfortable admitting what Dee posted (or Ross alluded to). He starts all the time, despite what you list (which is true), because of the state of our squad. I'm rather confident we'd be top 4 had he started the whole year up front, instead of that whining cunt ... but that doesn't mean I don't want him dropped when he enters his bad patches, which I'm sure you acknowledge too.

Themn - whenever I think of 'drowning kittens', I think of Torres's interview where he said he did it.
[/quote]

"He starts because of the state of our squad".

Absolute. Arse. Gravy.

We could sign Tevez and Messi and Dirk would still start. Have a look at the players that sit on the bench for Holland whilst Dirk starts for them too.
[/quote]

So because of his atrributes he's undroppable? LOL.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=44451.msg1296287#msg1296287 date=1299460533]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44451.msg1296276#msg1296276 date=1299459611]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=44451.msg1296274#msg1296274 date=1299459294]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44451.msg1296269#msg1296269 date=1299458581]
I "blindly defend him" because of what he contributes, as opposed to some inane stubborness which you seem to think I have.

He scores double figures every year.
He scores in the biggest of games, all the fucking time. In Europe, in the League, and when it matters most.
He's second in assists to Gerrard alone.
He works his absolute ugly cock off every week.
He loves the club, the fans, his teammates, and is a perfect example to younger players coming through.

What more do you want from him?

I'm more than happy to have a debate with you about his merits too. Please, fire the fuck away.
[/quote]

If there wasn't stubbornness mate, you'd be comfortable admitting what Dee posted (or Ross alluded to). He starts all the time, despite what you list (which is true), because of the state of our squad. I'm rather confident we'd be top 4 had he started the whole year up front, instead of that whining cunt ... but that doesn't mean I don't want him dropped when he enters his bad patches, which I'm sure you acknowledge too.

Themn - whenever I think of 'drowning kittens', I think of Torres's interview where he said he did it.
[/quote]

"He starts because of the state of our squad".

Absolute. Arse. Gravy.

We could sign Tevez and Messi and Dirk would still start. Have a look at the players that sit on the bench for Holland whilst Dirk starts for them too.
[/quote]

So because of his atrributes he's undroppable? LOL.


[/quote]

Well done Dreamy, you've established that I don't think Dirk Kuyt is droppable.

 

[RedZeppelin]

"only gets in the team cos of the state of the squad" my absolute fucking arse hole.
[/quote]


Was the point not more that he gets in the team even when he's drastically off form , has been piss poor for a number of games and should be dropped/rested because the overall state of the squad has been poor and there is not much to replace him with.

 

[cobrastatus]

Ryan, you make a lot of good points but surely you must be joking when you say:

"his supposed poor runs of form"

EVERY year he has a 15-20 game stretch where his form drops to shit. He doesn't score for months or create anything, but we stick with him because we don't have ANYONE else to step in at RW/RWF. That's surely what LTW means when he says our squad is poor.

We're not just making this up. It's not just LTW that says he has poor runs of form. Just about EVERYONE on the site has brought this up at one point or another, even the nutters, that's how obvious it is. EVEN DREAMBELIEVER CAN SEE IT! COME ON MAN!

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44451.msg1296288#msg1296288 date=1299460648]

Well done Dreamy, you've established that I don't think Dirk Kuyt is droppable.
[/quote]

Bringing form into it no player is undroppable ya daft Irishman.

I agree with alot of what you say but if Kuyt was dog shit for 9 months you can't say he should still start.

 

[Ryan]

But he isn't dogshit for 9 months, that's the fucking point. He's one of the most important players in our team every year, that's why he fucking plays.

I'm not dealing with if's, but's and what if's, I'm dealing with the facts based on what he's produced for us for over 3 years. Name me some other players in the league whose contributions exceeds his...

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44451.msg1296286#msg1296286 date=1299460478]
Park's nowhere near as good as Kuyt, so I don't see your point.

I'd like to engage with you on this, but I'm not sure which line of debate you're going with - 2 seconds ago it was the state of our squad as the primary reason why Dirk plays - which is absolutely fucking ludicrous, given the statistics handed to you on his continued contribution, and now it's his supposed 'poor runs of form'. What exactly is your fucking point mate, cos I'm struggling to follow what you're on about?

Tell you what, I'll steer you back on track. Name me some players who've contributed more in terms of assists and goals over the last 3/4 years in this league. You'll be able to name a few no doubt, and they'll all be quality players - cos that's the sort of player Dirk Kuyt is.

"only gets in the team cos of the state of the squad" my absolute fucking arse hole.
[/quote]

Park isn't as good as Dirk overall. I don't think I insinuated that, and if I did, sorry. But he does fill a similar role for the team, and for a much maligned player, he plays in almost all their major games AND scores critical goals all the time. Never injured, 100% for the badge ... You see the similarities.

I don't really care about comparing Dirk to what other players do. Not why I'm discussing this. I'm discussing this because what yet ANOTHER poster has brought up - he has long runs where he plays very poorly, relative to the level he is capable of giving. No, it's not 9 months. It's not 5 months. It's normally 1-2 months. For those 2 months, I don't feel his position should be guaranteed - which it always is.

No I don't hate Kuyt as is bandied about non-stop. I want him to retire a Red and I recognize the important role he's had for us. I want him to win a medal - anything for fuck's sake ... but that doesn't mean I think he needs to be in the same category as Stevie, Reina etc.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=44451.msg1296305#msg1296305 date=1299465172]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44451.msg1296286#msg1296286 date=1299460478]
Park's nowhere near as good as Kuyt, so I don't see your point.

I'd like to engage with you on this, but I'm not sure which line of debate you're going with - 2 seconds ago it was the state of our squad as the primary reason why Dirk plays - which is absolutely fucking ludicrous, given the statistics handed to you on his continued contribution, and now it's his supposed 'poor runs of form'. What exactly is your fucking point mate, cos I'm struggling to follow what you're on about?

Tell you what, I'll steer you back on track. Name me some players who've contributed more in terms of assists and goals over the last 3/4 years in this league. You'll be able to name a few no doubt, and they'll all be quality players - cos that's the sort of player Dirk Kuyt is.

"only gets in the team cos of the state of the squad" my absolute fucking arse hole.
[/quote]

Park isn't as good as Dirk overall. I don't think I insinuated that, and if I did, sorry. But he does fill a similar role for the team, and for a much maligned player, he plays in almost all their major games AND scores critical goals all the time. Never injured, 100% for the badge ... You see the similarities.

I don't really care about comparing Dirk to what other players do. Not why I'm discussing this. I'm discussing this because what yet ANOTHER poster has brought up - he has long runs where he plays very poorly, relative to the level he is capable of giving. No, it's not 9 months. It's not 5 months. It's normally 1-2 months. For those 2 months, I don't feel his position should be guaranteed - which it always is.

No I don't hate Kuyt as is bandied about non-stop. I want him to retire a Red and I recognize the important role he's had for us. I want him to win a medal - anything for fuck's sake ... but that doesn't mean I think he needs to be in the same category as Stevie, Reina etc.
[/quote]

I've always rated Park, but that's another discussion.

3 successive Liverpool managers have had 4 players they've never rotated - Gerrard, Reina, Carra, and Dirk. And the reason for that has little to do with "a shit squad" and everything to do with performance, relaibility, and consistency. Not to mention successive Dutch managers too.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44451.msg1296308#msg1296308 date=1299465855]
I've always rated Park, but that's another discussion.

3 successive Liverpool managers have had 4 players they've never rotated - Gerrard, Reina, Carra, and Dirk. And the reason for that has little to do with "a shit squad" and everything to do with performance, relaibility, and consistency. Not to mention successive Dutch managers too.
[/quote]

So because Lucas wasn't rotated in Rafa's last year, Roy's 6 month spell, and since Kenny took over, should we add him to that list too?

 

[Ryan]

Take a look at that man and tell me you don't love him, I dare ya!

 

[rebel23]

who is going to make way for Carroll then? Long term I can see it being Dirk but you have to say he always gives 100% in the shirt

 

[zlatan18]

The amount of shit Dirk Kuyt gets on this forum is unbelievable! he is one of our better players who always gives 100%, i fucking love him and hope he finishes his career with us.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=44451.msg1296344#msg1296344 date=1299481191]
who is going to make way for Carroll then? Long term I can see it being Dirk but you have to say he always gives 100% in the shirt


[/quote]

Longterm, well for the rest of the season anyway, it'll probably be:

--Suarez----Carroll----Kuyt--

 

[spider-Neil]

* we've spent 35 million on carroll (again, 35 MILLION)
* kuyt is a 'STRIKER'

in the summer I want us to purchase midfielders that will make the most of carrol's power and ability in the air leaving kuyt to fight for a position as a STRIKER.
if things stay as they are;
if we go 4-4-2 will kuyt provide the necessary service for carroll?
if we go 4-3-3 who is going to provide the width for kuyt, surez and carroll?

kuyt is obviously a good player but continues to play in the team despite going long periods in a slump (not his fault as he can't pick himself) he gets a 'decent' amount of goals and assists, I just think over the course of a season, actual wide players (rather than makeshift strikers) with pace, ability and directness will allow us to win more games both home and away with their contribution to the team even if they don't match kuyt's normal goal contribution.

if we get such players and kuyt still manages to force his way in the team, hopefully it will mean he had a more consistent season rather than the new midfielders being shite.

 

[Akakabooto]

I hate these kind of 'told you so' threads after X has a good match. I love Dirk but it's only going to polarise opinions on him more like the endless threads about Agger and Lucas have done.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44451.msg1296355#msg1296355 date=1299484294]
he gets a 'decent' amount of goals and assists
[/quote]

He's got 60 goals in 165 appearance for us, that's better than 1 in 3, which is great for a centre forward/wide forward, as opposed to an out and out striker.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44451.msg1296369#msg1296369 date=1299486857]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44451.msg1296355#msg1296355 date=1299484294]
he gets a 'decent' amount of goals and assists
[/quote]

He's got 60 goals in 165 appearance for us, that's better than 1 in 3, which is great for a centre forward/wide forward, as opposed to an out and out striker.
[/quote]

yeah you can't argue with that stat. i just think he needs to assist more. as a wide forward he should be able to create more chances than he does, either for himself or someone else

 

[the_khl]

Kuyt epitomizes a lot of what's been good in Liverpool over the past five years. Heart, determination, grit, hard work and energy. He's compensating well for his flaws elsewhere and is always one of the most trustworthy players we've got.

He's a splendid squad player and one who is much better with great players around him.

He is a limited player however in some areas and whenever a Gerrard, Suarez, Torres whomever is not around he often looks very inept.

Yesterday he popped up where a striker was supposed to be popping up and I'm absolutely delighted with him. He's not a long term solution for the striker-role in my opinion but a hattrick against the Mancs will do him a world of good.

The real difference yesterday for me however was Suarez.

 

[spider-Neil]

I've said all along it isn't purely about kuyt himself, it's about having a balanced front 6 that creates and finishes chances. if suarez and carroll are now our front two then kuyt shouldn't be part of the midfield 4 that supplies them as there are better alternatives that can be relied upon to provide consistent service.

if there is a choice of kuyt scoring 10 goals or a wide midfielder who creates 20 (directly with an assists or indirectly with a powerful run that strecthes the opposition) then I know which one I prefer.

it's not about individuals, it's about a team.
it's not about a single game (wolves or manu it's still 3 points) it's about a string of games.

 

[i_rushie]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44451.msg1296379#msg1296379 date=1299488750]
I've said all along it isn't purely about kuyt himself, it's about having a balanced front 6 that creates and finishes chances. if suarez and carroll are now our front two then kuyt shouldn't be part of the midfield 4 that supplies them as there are better alternatives that can be relied upon to provide consistent service.

if there is a choice of kuyt scoring 10 goals or a wide midfielder who creates 20 (directly with an assists or indirectly with a powerful run that strecthes the opposition) then I know which one I prefer.

it's not about individuals, it's about a team.
it's not about a single game (wolves or manu it's still 3 points) it's about a string of games.

[/quote]

You forgot attacking fullbacks, Neil. A balanced front 6 and attacking fullbacks attacking fullbacks attacking fullbacks.

 

[Rosco]

Ha

 

[the_khl]

Oh, don't know if it was in this thread but I read somewhere people were slagging off Young saying Kuyt's the better player.

I'm utterly convinved that Young would be a far better alterantive for us in some games compared to Kuyt. The former's got pace, got the ability to leave a man stranded and is much more of a real winger with a very decent first touch.

Can't see why it's either Kuyt OR Young. We could very much use both and contrary to what seem the most common belief on here I reckon Young's got potential to be a splendid player for us.

 

[dee]

I'm going to go all Binny on you!

"It's perfect," Kuyt told Sky Sports afterwards. "You dream about the hat-trick and to do it against United is the best feeling ever.

"I'm more than happy but I have to thank Luis because he played great and created two of the goals. They were quite easy goals, I used to score them in Holland when I played more like a striker. They count and I'm more than happy to take them."

EPL Record Games started (sub) - Goals scored (assists)

2010/11 23 (1) - 7 (4)
2009/10 35 (2) - 9 (3)
2008/09 36 (2) - 12 (8.)
2007/08 24 (8.) - 3 (6)
2006/07 27 (7) - 12 (4)

Total to date = 145 (20) - 43 (25)

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=i_rushie link=topic=44451.msg1296386#msg1296386 date=1299489609]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44451.msg1296379#msg1296379 date=1299488750]
I've said all along it isn't purely about kuyt himself, it's about having a balanced front 6 that creates and finishes chances. if suarez and carroll are now our front two then kuyt shouldn't be part of the midfield 4 that supplies them as there are better alternatives that can be relied upon to provide consistent service.

if there is a choice of kuyt scoring 10 goals or a wide midfielder who creates 20 (directly with an assists or indirectly with a powerful run that strecthes the opposition) then I know which one I prefer.

it's not about individuals, it's about a team.
it's not about a single game (wolves or manu it's still 3 points) it's about a string of games.

[/quote]

You forgot attacking fullbacks, Neil. A balanced front 6 and attacking fullbacks attacking fullbacks attacking fullbacks.
[/quote]

the plan of having attacking fullbacks providing width rather than wide midfielders (who aren't going to) clearly hasn't worked out.

 

[King Binny]

Kuyt has scored in 4 successive games, first since Stevie G to do that.

 

[peterhague]

he IS shit in the air, though, tbh. has he ever scored a header from more than a yard out?

still, that's nitpicking on his current form.