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Christian Crapsen

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[quote author=KHL link=topic=42097.msg1191955#msg1191955 date=1286614170]
Poulsen was horrendous last night. If he doesn't soon improve even I will end up beeing disgusted with this signing. Truth to be said I'm baffled by these seemingly new low standards from him and by the looks of it I'll be proved very wrong defending him in the first place.

PS Raul was invisible for most of the 90 minutes. Very ordinary to say the least.
[/quote]

I was really hoping you'd be proven right in the end 🙁
 
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42097.msg1192013#msg1192013 date=1286623188]
The Poulsen signing is very much evidence for that Roy Hodgson is not LFC material.
[/quote]

Every manager makes some poor signings. Rafa Benitez made dozens of them without the fans turning against him.
 
yeah but rafa was wise enough to get the fans onside in the first place - by winning the european cup - before making dubious signings, i think that prejudiced the fans against open rebellion.
 
Yeah,agree with that.
I also pobably gave him 3 years longer than it should have.

He also had lots of good signings; but it was probably the timing of his many stinkers that hurt..just when the spending stopped.
 
yes, true. as someone a lot more critical of rafa than me, what do you make of all those signings nobody really mentions? obviously evryone accepts that alonso, reina, torres etc inspired, and that aquilani, keane, pennant etc were dreadful, but what about the vast majority of middling signings like:

garcia
crouch
sissoko
gonzalez
kuyt
skrtel
babel
benayoun
bellamy
arbeloa
riera

how do you assess those? imo i don't think anything went seriously wrong until 2008, but then i am fond of the guy.
 
Benitez also arrived after winning two titles with an unfancied club in one of the best leagues in the world, and a UEFA cup win. Ie one of the most highly-respected and sought after coaches in world football.

The budgie-faced geriatric arrived with a 12th place for Fulham, and fuck all else

It's not fucking hard to work out why one was afforded more time and patience.
 
When Jonjo came on against Northampton I thought he did really well," Gerrard said.

"He put some dangerous balls into their box and just that piece of action will have done him the world of good as he moves forward. It'll give him the confidence to try and shift people from the first eleven.

"He is a talented player. He's still young and still a baby in football terms but if he keeps learning - not just from me but from everyone in the squad, people who are older than him and have been there and done it before - his game will continue to get better and better."
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42097.msg1192058#msg1192058 date=1286630563]
yes, true. as someone a lot more critical of rafa than me, what do you make of all those signings nobody really mentions? obviously evryone accepts that alonso, reina, torres etc inspired, and that aquilani, keane, pennant etc were dreadful, but what about the vast majority of middling signings like:

garcia
crouch
sissoko
gonzalez
kuyt
skrtel
babel
benayoun
bellamy
arbeloa
riera

how do you assess those? imo i don't think anything went seriously wrong until 2008, but then i am fond of the guy.
[/quote]

I'm actually very fond of the guy myself, Pete.

Part of the reason why I've been critical is because in some weird way I felt 'cheated'.

I think he wsa in many ways his own worst enemy, and IMO he could have become one of our best ever managers.

Oh well... 🙁

Of those names there, some have done really well..some have been rubbish..but in many of them, I think the main issue is 'what is this player supposed to achieve'.
 
Rafa sold or forced out even his good signings, which sort of underlines the fact he was losing the plot as time went on.
 
Poulsen has been a shocking signing, just as we expected.

It's like one of the top scouts in Norway said the other day, why on earth do you sign a player that has been underperforming for the last 5 years and is clearly pas his best.

We should have bought a younger, hungry and more dynamic midfielder. We could have bought Anthony Annan i e for the money we spent on Crapsen.
 
Oh, and he got a 0 in a Danish newspaper for his effort against Portugal. Couldn't hit a single correct pass and gave away the 2-0 goal. The verdict; try something else than football for a living
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42097.msg1192081#msg1192081 date=1286636724]
Rafa sold or forced out even his good signings, which sort of underlines the fact he was losing the plot as time went on.
[/quote]


eh? he did that to alonso, which was probably his single biggest mistake at the club, although i think even then he was probably a bit unlucky how that panned out in the end.

but who else? garcia, bellamy, arbeloa maybe? it's not exactly a spine-chilling list is it?
 
Garcia, bellamy and arbeloa would have improved us both this year and last year immensely
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42097.msg1192096#msg1192096 date=1286639991]
Garcia, bellamy and arbeloa would have improved us both this year and last year immensely
[/quote]


yeah, but that's a lot different to implying that selling them is evidence he was losing the plot.

anyway, garcia and bellamy offset over half of torres's fee. it's not like it was wanton dismantling of the squad.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42097.msg1192103#msg1192103 date=1286640667]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42097.msg1192096#msg1192096 date=1286639991]
Garcia, bellamy and arbeloa would have improved us both this year and last year immensely
[/quote]


yeah, but that's a lot different to implying that selling them is evidence he was losing the plot.

anyway, garcia and bellamy offset over half of torres's fee. it's not like it was wanton dismantling of the squad.
[/quote]
True enough. The dismantling was a long process over 4 years
 
I'm not sure if I'd even consider Alonso his biggest mistake; since he had been undeperforming in comparison with his own incredible high standards.

His mistake was in the manner in which it was done.

He whored him out to all of Europe,and the only reason he stayed was because Wenger didnt think he was worth the 16 odd million Rafa wanted (this was one reason why I bit my lip when some used to talk about how shrewd Rafa was to get 30 million a year later)

Let's take Kuyt at 9 million.

He's been a decent signing; but he was bought as a striker based on his good performances in Holland.

A lot on here were very concerned and wrung their hands at the thought that we were getting Kezman instead of RVN.
Thankfully he was neither.

He wasnt a good striker, so he got shunted to the right.

It's to his credit that he's done as best as he could ther..but it was never and will never be stellar because he's not a great striker and he's not a great RM.

Still love him though, he's done better than most of our team through practically graft and will.

We were slow up front, who does he get as an addtional striker?

Peter Crouch at 7 million.

But he was also a decent buy,even if the limitations that existed before he came were not solved.

How could they be?

I'm sure we can remember the days when our 2 strikers were Kuyt and Crouch. 😱

So he's sold for 12 million and Rafa is lauded for making profits.

Except, we're not Ajax.

Our subsequent lack of finshing and pace is remedied to an extent by Bellamy at 6 million and Fowler.

A great nostalgic hurrah or us, but in all honesty it was Bellamy's failure that rankled..admittedly much of that was Bellamy's fault...neveretheless, Rafa should have persisted with him IMO.

Robbie Keane at 19 million.

Never mind, I'm not going there since I've only got one bottle of wine and I'd need a lot more.

Thankfully Rafa got Torres, which was a GREAT signing..and I can remember when many were worried that he'd be rubbish here.

Right midfield.

It'sa travety hat our best RM isKuyt.

It's not all Rafa's doing of course since he wantedlves and got Pennant (something which is often mentioned).

But we still paid 7 million for rubbish, and should have kept Kuyt until a better player was affordable.

Since then we've tried a whole bunch of players,ranging from mediocre to crap.

Bennayoun was so-so, but even then I'm not sure what the hell he was.

Left Midfiel.

Gonzalez,Leto, Babel, Riera.

That's about 25 milion right there.

Babel wasnt even bought as an LM but was shunted there because he was a shit striker.

(yes, he wasnt utilised properly, not given proper chances blah bla)

Midfield.

MUCH MUCH better here.

Alonso, Mascherano.

Sheer quality.

(and yes, Garcia was quality to me too...don't know where the hell to put him though)

Sissoko was a good buy, and it wasnt Rafa's fault he playedbadlylater on.

But then there's Lucas, and Aquilani.

Left back.

Fuck me.

We had a very capable LB and replaced him with Dossena, and Insua (though thankfully Insua was buttons)

Aureli was a decent gamble, but wich backfired.

For Hodgson as well.

Rightback.
Good RB in Finnan, but Rafa semed to want him out from day one, preferring to place his faith in Josemi and then Kromkamp.

Rubbish and notsorubbish.

Arbeloa was a good buy,but we couldnt keep him..again, NOT wholly Rafa's fault.

Sohe fixes RB by bringing in Englands top RB at 18 million.

We're still rubbish at RM, LM, need a partner striker for Torres..but he gets Johnson.

hairpullingmoment.

Centrebacks.

Good job in Agger and Skrtel at about 10-11 million for the two.

(I'm still hopin they become our mainstay CB's in a few years)

In all honesty though, his only MASSIVE success has been Reina, where he took a risk on a good player at a very reasonable price, and it's proven fantastic.

His overall transfer record has been decent, but it could have been and should have been so much better...much like his managerial record.

I've probablly forgot some players though.
 
most of that's fair enough imo, although there are lots of small points id pull you up on if i could be bothered, but i agree that his record was about 'decent' overall.

i think what riles me is how often you hear it said that his record was abysmal, that this is his mess we're suffering from etc. you never hear martin o'neill get any stick, but he spent £88m net (i think) in a shorter period and still had pretty much fuck all to show for it in terms of success on the pitch. i just think it's a myth that he was any worse than most good managers in the market, and at least his genius for over-achieving in the CL paid for his mistakes.

oh, by the way, when i said that alonso was his biggest misake i actually meant his handling of the barry saga the year before. that wasn't good. but if we'd got barry he'd probably have got away with it - like you say, xabi hadn't been at his best and barry would've been accepted as a reasonable swap.
 
I don't mind being pulled up,Pete..I know I've got a bit of a reputation, but I think (and hope) that I've been pretty fair overall..

I think MON's overrated, btw.

Rafa is a far better manager than Hodgson too, before I'm asked.. 🙂

I just hoped he'd have kept things simple and tried his best to plug up the obvious weaknesses as best he can. 🙁
 
alright mate, i can't argue with much of what you said, and i don't have a problem with people criticising rafa either, it's just a matter of opinion. i just think a lot of stuff in the media, and on here at times as well, is weirdly harsh - as if people really do have an agenda, as paranoid asthat sounds.
 
Good read, Avvy.

I'll never forgive Rafa for the handling of the Alonso saga, and the subsequent Aquilani saga. Ever.
 
Sorry but I don't agree about Alonso. One can argue about whether or not Rafa should have let him attend the birth of his child, but many managers would have said "no" with an important European tie coming up. Plenty of players have been in that situation before Alonso and not chosen to ignore their professional duty as he did. Add to that the fact that he wasn't in form anyway, nor had been for some time, and there was a good case for Rafa looking to sell.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42097.msg1192261#msg1192261 date=1286701427]
Sorry but I don't agree about Alonso. One can argue about whether or not Rafa should have let him attend the birth of his child, but many managers would have said "no" with an important European tie coming up. Plenty of players have been in that situation before Alonso and not chosen to ignore their professional duty as he did. Add to that the fact that he wasn't in form anyway, nor had been for some time, and there was a good case for Rafa looking to sell.
[/quote]

There was, but such public courting of a replacement wouldn't have helped
 
I don't think it was so much the episode of the birth of Alonso's child, as the fact that Benitez was trying to sign Gareth Barry. Alonso took this as a sign that Rafa was intending to sell him, probably correctly. It's to Alonso's great credit that the season after the Gareth Barry episode, his last season with LFC, was probably his best ever season.
 
[quote author=Portly link=topic=42097.msg1192267#msg1192267 date=1286701690]
I don't think it was so much the episode of the birth of Alonso's child, as the fact that Benitez was trying to sign Gareth Barry. Alonso took this as a sign that Rafa was intending to sell him, probably correctly. It's to Alonso's great credit that the season after the Gareth Barry episode, his last season with LFC, was probably his best ever season.
[/quote]


is it?! you mean it took him two seasons of relative underperformance and for rafa to justifiably think about a replacement for him to have a strop and pull his finger out his arse, then demand to leave at the end of the season out of spite?

yeah, what a PRO!







seriously, though, i know it was poorly handled, but i don't think anyone comes out of the whole mess with much credit, personally.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42097.msg1192279#msg1192279 date=1286702862] you mean it took him two seasons of relative underperformance and for rafa to justifiably think about a replacement for him to have a strop and pull his finger out his arse, then demand to leave at the end of the season out of spite?
[/quote]

I'm not sure if you had your tongue in your cheek there, but that's not the way I saw it. I think Alonso was always one of the first names on our team sheet and I would never accuse him of underperformance at any time. He was a great passer and never shirked a tackle. Being a proud Spaniard (or Basque) he had obviously made his mind up to go at the time of the Gareth Barry episode, but he couldn't go at the time because nobody would meet Rafa's high price. Many players might have underperformed after that, but with Alonso it was the reverse, he played better than ever.
 
He certainly left with his reputation, popularity and affinity with the club intact, unlike your love-child Mascherano
 
fine, but that's not the way i see it. i think the barry thing put a rocket under him, refocused him, and also made him absolutely determined never to forgive rafa for the way he treated him.

i think he has to take some of the blame for 2 years of underperformance (which noone really denies happened, to some degree or other). what other explanation is there? bad form? for 2 years? and then that to magically end when he gets a massive warning?

i just don't buy that.
 
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