Chelsea v Liverpool - OFFICIAL MATCH THREAD

[spider-Neil]

shame really because up until that point masher was having a superb game.

my opinion of the game is we were far too pounderous with our passing, it wasn't a cause of finding the killer ball it was a case of taking a touch and then moving the ball on giving chelsea time to set themselves. there were a couple of times when we moved the ball quicker and strecthed chelsea. once we went behind it was game over because chelsea could then commit fewer bodies to the attack on the counter attack making it even harder to pass through them.

I thought reira and kuyt were absolutely reluctantant to take players on, also reira was doing that stupid thing where he attempted to go past a player and went for seconds after almost succeeding. yossi improved things and I think babel should have come on earlier.

all in all I don't think we played that badly, I think gerrard is in a slump basically he is confused as too whether to support the CM midfieders more or torres.
I know insua is a bit of a fan favorite but I would replace him with aurelio right now, I would get agger into the team right now as for aqualini I think too much expectation is being placed on him, but from what I've seen on him (admittedly on youtube) he looks attacking I think lucas' instincts are too defensive which blunts our attack if he is besides masher.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=36266.msg957711#msg957711 date=1254717494]
carragher is fucking useless!! cost us both goals
[/quote]

Hahaha. Clown.

 

[nealmac]

I really feel sorry for Aqualani. The pressure he's going to be under will be immense. People think he's going to be our saviour. I that's the case.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=nealmac link=topic=36266.msg958122#msg958122 date=1254766764]
I really feel sorry for Aqualani. The pressure he's going to be under will be immense. People think he's going to be our saviour. I that's the case.
[/quote]

On the flipside, i think it's fair to expect that a 20M midfielder can actually fucking play too.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36266.msg957706#msg957706 date=1254716527]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36266.msg957705#msg957705 date=1254716048]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36266.msg957700#msg957700 date=1254708969]
Heh, just had a thought. Can you imagine if Lucas had done what Masher did for their first goal?

The internet would have crashed.
[/quote]

That would mean Lucas would have had to try and have a positive attacking influence on the game, so I think the internet was never in danger.
[/quote]

People only see what they want to see regarding Lucas.
[/quote]

I don't think that's necessarily true. I want to see a great player, but unfortunately all I see is an average one.

While I don't think Lucas has deserved anything like the criticism he's received at times this season, I think the inescapable truth is that he simply isn't good enough to do the job that's being asked of him.

Gerrard has been equally average, and should take responsibility for that. Of course the difference is, it's not the norm for him.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=36266.msg958290#msg958290 date=1254783331]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36266.msg957706#msg957706 date=1254716527]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36266.msg957705#msg957705 date=1254716048]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36266.msg957700#msg957700 date=1254708969]
Heh, just had a thought. Can you imagine if Lucas had done what Masher did for their first goal?

The internet would have crashed.
[/quote]

That would mean Lucas would have had to try and have a positive attacking influence on the game, so I think the internet was never in danger.
[/quote]

People only see what they want to see regarding Lucas.
[/quote]

I don't think that's necessarily true. I want to see a great player, but unfortunately all I see is an average one.

While I don't think Lucas has deserved anything like the criticism he's received at times this season, I think the inescapable truth is that he simply isn't good enough to do the job that's being asked of him.

Gerrard has been equally average, and should take responsibility for that. Of course the difference is, it's not the norm for him.
[/quote]

Fair enough, I can see why he's not some people's cup of tea. Especially if you like the Mascherano, Gerrard, 'barnstorming influence'. Lucas (and I'm not drawing compariosn between them as players) is obviously a completely different type of player, but does offer something.

In regard to 'people seeing what they want to see', I'm talking about those who calim (Like Dreamy above) that he has no attacking tendencies. I'd bet any money that he makes more forward passes in a game than Mascherano or Riera. His passing is good, and when a forward option is on he'll play it.

 

[nealmac]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36266.msg958283#msg958283 date=1254782351]
[quote author=nealmac link=topic=36266.msg958122#msg958122 date=1254766764]
I really feel sorry for Aqualani. The pressure he's going to be under will be immense. People think he's going to be our saviour. I that's the case.
[/quote]

On the flipside, i think it's fair to expect that a 20M midfielder can actually fucking play too.
[/quote]
True.

But he's going to be under huge scrutiny, and if he doesn't deliver he'll be crucified.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=nealmac link=topic=36266.msg958299#msg958299 date=1254784705]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36266.msg958283#msg958283 date=1254782351]
[quote author=nealmac link=topic=36266.msg958122#msg958122 date=1254766764]
I really feel sorry for Aqualani. The pressure he's going to be under will be immense. People think he's going to be our saviour. I that's the case.
[/quote]

On the flipside, i think it's fair to expect that a 20M midfielder can actually fucking play too.
[/quote]
True.

But he's going to be under huge scrutiny, and if he doesn't deliver he'll be crucified.
[/quote]

Generally with these things, new players (especially foreigners) are given a bedding-in period whereby most (and I use that quite loosely) fans will afford them a few shite games or moments. After that, we're expecting to see something from him. Which is only fair given he cost us 20M really.

 

[darkstarexodus]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36266.msg958297#msg958297 date=1254783824]
Fair enough, I can see why he's not some people's cup of tea. Especially if you like the Mascherano, Gerrard, 'barnstorming influence'. Lucas (and I'm not drawing compariosn between them as players) is obviously a completely different type of player, but does offer something.

In regard to 'people seeing what they want to see', I'm talking about those who calim (Like Dreamy above) that he has no attacking tendencies. I'd bet any money that he makes more forward passes in a game than Mascherano or Riera. His passing is good, and when a forward option is on he'll play it.
[/quote]

That's probably a fair comment. He does look to move the ball forward and, as I've said countless times, in a league where he is afforded a little more time and space, and where he does not need to get stuck in as much, I think he would be quite a good player. (Not a great one but better than average and better than he has shown for us.) Unfortunately, the Premiership tends to favor players in his position who can put their stamp on a game and drive their team forward. He hasn't of yet consistently shown a killer tendancy when pressing forward (glimpses of it have been shown, notably against Newcastle last season and in the preseason this term) and his defensive play leaves a lot to be desired.

I think his weaknesses are on particular display when he is next to Mascherano and that he looks better when lined up alongside Alonso or, particularly, Gerrard, who can share the offensive responsibilities. With the way we line our team up, we need someone in central midfield who can pull the strings and push the ball into dangerous places. While Lucas is capable of keeping the ball ticking over in the middle of the park with his quick, one-touch passing, he doesn't offer the capability of effectively slowing the play down or spreading it to the wings.

 

[Judge Jules]

Excellent summary. He's not a bad player, but he simply isn't as good as we need him to be.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36266.msg958434#msg958434 date=1254820499]
Excellent summary. He's not a bad player, but he simply isn't as good as we need him to be.
[/quote]I dont think he was meant to be just yet. Its a shame he got thrown in at the deep end, because he can play football.
Maybe some time out (once Aqui is fit) will do him the world of good.

 

[keniget]

He's 22 and in his third season at the club.

If he's not ready to be thrown in at the deep end (read: start a few games in a row), when will he be?

 

[TheBunnyman]

I think Lucas can end up as a decent squad player for us, which is more than I thought he would manage last season. Whether he'd want to stay under those conditions, I'm not so sure. He'd probably be better off playing regularly for a midtable Spanish team.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=36266.msg958438#msg958438 date=1254820735]
He's 22 and in his third season at the club.

If he's not ready to be thrown in at the deep end (read: start a few games in a row), when will he be?
[/quote]Mate was Carrick at a top 4 club playing week in week out at that stage? Fletcher? Scholes? Lampard? Ballack? Alonso? The only one who was is Fabregas and by consensus he needs an older wiser player alongside him.
When Lucas plays alongside Gerrard he performs well.
22 is too young to be Anchoring a title challenging team.

 

[darkstarexodus]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36266.msg958457#msg958457 date=1254821815]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36266.msg958438#msg958438 date=1254820735]
He's 22 and in his third season at the club.

If he's not ready to be thrown in at the deep end (read: start a few games in a row), when will he be?
[/quote]Mate was Carrick at a top 4 club playing week in week out at that stage? Fletcher? Scholes? Lampard? Ballack? Alonso? The only one who was is Fabregas and by consensus he needs an older wiser player alongside him.
When Lucas plays alongside Gerrard he performs well.
22 is too young to be Anchoring a title challenging team.
[/quote]

It's unfortunate that right now we have the nucleus of a title-challenging team and we may not have such a good chance in a couple seasons when Lucas truly is ready. We could perhaps afford to carry him in the middle if we had those ever-so-elusive "world class" wingers (ala United with Fletcher and Carrick in the middle when Giggs and Ronaldo were on the wings). On the flipside, we could probably win it with Kuyt and Riera on the wings if we still had a central midfield capable of dominating play and taking it to the opposition.

----

Bunny: I think he could start for a team pushing for a Champions League spot in Spain, provided he was surrounded by the right players. Not Madrid or Barca, obviously but possibly Athletico. They have a dynamic enough attack already that Lucas would not be relied upon to open up defenses on his own. Mind you, they ship goals already...

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36266.msg958457#msg958457 date=1254821815]Mate was Carrick at a top 4 club playing week in week out at that stage? Fletcher? Scholes? Lampard? Ballack? Alonso? The only one who was is Fabregas and by consensus he needs an older wiser player alongside him.
When Lucas plays alongside Gerrard he performs well.
22 is too young to be Anchoring a title challenging team.
[/quote]

Maybe he can be a late bloomer. I'm just struggling to see it.

Also, Alonso nearly led Sociedad to the title in 2002.

 

[Piedro]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36266.msg958457#msg958457 date=1254821815]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36266.msg958438#msg958438 date=1254820735]
He's 22 and in his third season at the club.

If he's not ready to be thrown in at the deep end (read: start a few games in a row), when will he be?
[/quote]Mate was Carrick at a top 4 club playing week in week out at that stage? Fletcher? Scholes? Lampard? Ballack? Alonso? The only one who was is Fabregas and by consensus he needs an older wiser player alongside him.
When Lucas plays alongside Gerrard he performs well.
22 is too young to be Anchoring a title challenging team.
[/quote]

How old is Jon Obi?

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Piedro link=topic=36266.msg958530#msg958530 date=1254830738]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36266.msg958457#msg958457 date=1254821815]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36266.msg958438#msg958438 date=1254820735]
He's 22 and in his third season at the club.

If he's not ready to be thrown in at the deep end (read: start a few games in a row), when will he be?
[/quote]Mate was Carrick at a top 4 club playing week in week out at that stage? Fletcher? Scholes? Lampard? Ballack? Alonso? The only one who was is Fabregas and by consensus he needs an older wiser player alongside him.
When Lucas plays alongside Gerrard he performs well.
22 is too young to be Anchoring a title challenging team.
[/quote]

How old is Jon Obi?
[/quote]

Old enough to sit on the bench when all Chelsea's better midfielders are fit?

 

[Piedro]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36266.msg958533#msg958533 date=1254830952]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=36266.msg958530#msg958530 date=1254830738]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36266.msg958457#msg958457 date=1254821815]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36266.msg958438#msg958438 date=1254820735]
He's 22 and in his third season at the club.

If he's not ready to be thrown in at the deep end (read: start a few games in a row), when will he be?
[/quote]Mate was Carrick at a top 4 club playing week in week out at that stage? Fletcher? Scholes? Lampard? Ballack? Alonso? The only one who was is Fabregas and by consensus he needs an older wiser player alongside him.
When Lucas plays alongside Gerrard he performs well.
22 is too young to be Anchoring a title challenging team.
[/quote]

How old is Jon Obi?
[/quote]

Old enough to sit on the bench when all Chelsea's better midfielders are fit?
[/quote]

Fair enough. I just saw a black fella anchoring the midfield on Sunday and assumed it was him.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Piedro link=topic=36266.msg958534#msg958534 date=1254831030]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36266.msg958533#msg958533 date=1254830952]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=36266.msg958530#msg958530 date=1254830738]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36266.msg958457#msg958457 date=1254821815]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36266.msg958438#msg958438 date=1254820735]
He's 22 and in his third season at the club.

If he's not ready to be thrown in at the deep end (read: start a few games in a row), when will he be?
[/quote]Mate was Carrick at a top 4 club playing week in week out at that stage? Fletcher? Scholes? Lampard? Ballack? Alonso? The only one who was is Fabregas and by consensus he needs an older wiser player alongside him.
When Lucas plays alongside Gerrard he performs well.
22 is too young to be Anchoring a title challenging team.
[/quote]

How old is Jon Obi?
[/quote]

Old enough to sit on the bench when all Chelsea's better midfielders are fit?
[/quote]

Fair enough. I just saw a black fella anchoring the midfield on Sunday and assumed it was him.
[/quote]

HAHAHAHAHA

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Piedro link=topic=36266.msg958534#msg958534 date=1254831030]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36266.msg958533#msg958533 date=1254830952]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=36266.msg958530#msg958530 date=1254830738]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36266.msg958457#msg958457 date=1254821815]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36266.msg958438#msg958438 date=1254820735]
He's 22 and in his third season at the club.

If he's not ready to be thrown in at the deep end (read: start a few games in a row), when will he be?
[/quote]Mate was Carrick at a top 4 club playing week in week out at that stage? Fletcher? Scholes? Lampard? Ballack? Alonso? The only one who was is Fabregas and by consensus he needs an older wiser player alongside him.
When Lucas plays alongside Gerrard he performs well.
22 is too young to be Anchoring a title challenging team.
[/quote]

How old is Jon Obi?
[/quote]

Old enough to sit on the bench when all Chelsea's better midfielders are fit?
[/quote]

Fair enough. I just saw a black fella anchoring the midfield on Sunday and assumed it was him.
[/quote]

RACIST!!!

 

[Piedro]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36266.msg958587#msg958587 date=1254837126]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=36266.msg958534#msg958534 date=1254831030]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36266.msg958533#msg958533 date=1254830952]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=36266.msg958530#msg958530 date=1254830738]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36266.msg958457#msg958457 date=1254821815]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36266.msg958438#msg958438 date=1254820735]
He's 22 and in his third season at the club.

If he's not ready to be thrown in at the deep end (read: start a few games in a row), when will he be?
[/quote]Mate was Carrick at a top 4 club playing week in week out at that stage? Fletcher? Scholes? Lampard? Ballack? Alonso? The only one who was is Fabregas and by consensus he needs an older wiser player alongside him.
When Lucas plays alongside Gerrard he performs well.
22 is too young to be Anchoring a title challenging team.
[/quote]

How old is Jon Obi?
[/quote]

Old enough to sit on the bench when all Chelsea's better midfielders are fit?
[/quote]

Fair enough. I just saw a black fella anchoring the midfield on Sunday and assumed it was him.
[/quote]

RACIST!!!
[/quote]

Old News

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Piedro link=topic=36266.msg958592#msg958592 date=1254838576]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36266.msg958587#msg958587 date=1254837126]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=36266.msg958534#msg958534 date=1254831030]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36266.msg958533#msg958533 date=1254830952]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=36266.msg958530#msg958530 date=1254830738]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36266.msg958457#msg958457 date=1254821815]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36266.msg958438#msg958438 date=1254820735]
He's 22 and in his third season at the club.

If he's not ready to be thrown in at the deep end (read: start a few games in a row), when will he be?
[/quote]Mate was Carrick at a top 4 club playing week in week out at that stage? Fletcher? Scholes? Lampard? Ballack? Alonso? The only one who was is Fabregas and by consensus he needs an older wiser player alongside him.
When Lucas plays alongside Gerrard he performs well.
22 is too young to be Anchoring a title challenging team.
[/quote]

How old is Jon Obi?
[/quote]

Old enough to sit on the bench when all Chelsea's better midfielders are fit?
[/quote]

Fair enough. I just saw a black fella anchoring the midfield on Sunday and assumed it was him.
[/quote]

RACIST!!!
[/quote]

Old News
[/quote]

it's old news you're a racist? 😉

 

[gkmacca]

This match thread is going on so long it should be at Old Trafford.

 

[SummerOnions]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36266.msg958608#msg958608 date=1254839635]
This match thread is going on so long it should be at Old Trafford.
[/quote]

Nice.