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central midfield

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red_maradona

red_maradona

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Stevie, Lucas, Henderson, Allen.

All battling for 3 places.

That midfield lacks pace, goals, and power. It's pretty poor to be honest. None of them bar Stevie (and only just) would get into the midfield squad of the top 4.

Let's hope the marquis players BR is talking about are for our midfield. Otherwise, we are going to get overhwhelmed, and outplayed.
 
i wonder if coutinho could drop back into that 3 and play as an attacking mid . I wouldn't be too surprised if rodgers does that .
 
That Henrikh chap would've made a big improvement - let's hope Rodgers has 1 or 2 of that ilk lined up.
 
well he could still be , in the same way gerrard was when he played behind torres .
 
RedZeppelin III said:
i wonder if coutinho could drop back into that 3 and play as an attacking mid . I wouldn't be too surprised if rodgers does that .
Click to expand...

Wasn't that what Coutinho did at times at the closing stages of the season? Although we played with all 3 of Lucas, Gerrard and Henderson, I recall Coutinho starting in the centre, with Henderson tucked in on the left and Downing on the right, all behind Sturridge.
 
studsup said:
Wasn't that what Coutinho did at times at the closing stages of the season? Although we played with all 3 of Lucas, Gerrard and Henderson, I recall Coutinho starting in the centre, with Henderson tucked in on the left and Downing on the right, all behind Sturridge.
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Exactly.
 
It's a bit of a clusterfuck isn't it ?
Even taking them at their best I don't like many of the combinations we have for midfield. And none of them were particularly good last season.

I know the first counter argument will be Gerrards assist and goals tally, but the reality is he was rubbish in the first half of the season and good in the second half. Padding out stats against shit teams when there's nothing to play for doesn't count for much in my book. He needs to be a bit more consistent and he probably will be next year since he'll have good players around him , much like the second half of last season. He probably doesn't have the brains or workrate to do a job like Xabi - but it's really what we need of him.

Lucas is just a non entity going forward - he's just never going to be my cup of tea. I don't think we can compete for the league with him in the middle. He's the lemon that people have painted gold, but he's still a fucking lemon at the end of the day.

I've still yet to really make up my mind on the other two - I don't think there's any reality to either of them being sold this summer but so far I'd be more positively inclined towards Henderson. It's clear he has the technical ability, but we saw him grow a bit as a presence for us during last season. He might be on the cusp of breaking through this season but funnily enough what's likely to hold him back is the one that has it all to prove - Allen. He'll get plenty of opportunities probably at Hendersons expense and maybe ours too


We definitely need to strengthen the middle of the park - we need someone who can dictate the tempo and rally control the game for us. I'm not sure the Armenian lad was like that - he seemed more a Gerrard / Lampard style from the little I've seen of him so it might be a Blessing that we missed out.

If we've still got that cash to spend we should get someone who'll be the foundation of the midfield for years to come
 
Not one side in the premier league has a top class centre midfield pairing.

I explained all of this and why insisting on having one was largely irrelevant about 12 months ago.
 
Ryan said:
Not one side in the premier league has a top class centre midfield pairing.

I explained all of this and why insisting on having one was largely irrelevant about 12 months ago.
Click to expand...

All the while the best teams in Europe have top class midfield pairings and the English clubs do shite in the champions League.
 
It's those 4 midfielders in to 2.

Actually, given that Gerrard will play if fit, it's 3 battling it out for 1 position.

We're generally playing 4231 not 433 or we were towards the end of last season.

I think that's why we've been chasing attacking players all summer and not the mythical DM.
 
We should just sell Suarez and buy Alonso and Ozil. Then all our dreams will come true, we will win the double this year, the treble next year and then the World Cup.....
 
Rosco said:
I know the first counter argument will be Gerrards assist and goals tally, but the reality is he was rubbish in the first half of the season and good in the second half. Padding out stats against shit teams when there's nothing to play for doesn't count for much in my book.
Click to expand...

Then he must've padded his "g" and "a" columns with zeroes because he had no goals nor assists in the last 5 games he was available for (West Ham, Reading, Chelsea, Newcastle, Everton). For the first couple of games in that stretch, we still had a chance to get into Europe. The draws against them cost us.

Stats from Soccernet. I cannot see any stat-padding below of the sort you mentioned. Yeah, he contributed 2 goals and 2 assists in total in large wins against Swansea, Sunderland, Fulham and QPR, but these games were still pretty much in the thick of the season.

Second half of season: 4 goals, 3 assists
-----------
31/03 vs Aston Villa - 1 goal: game winning penalty
10/03 vs Tottenham - 1 goal: game winning penalty
17/02 vs Swansea - 1 goal: first goal of a 5-0 win (penalty)
03/02 vs Man City - 1 assist, 1 goal in a 2-2 draw (blinder that gave us a 2-1 lead)
19/01 vs Norwich - 1 goal: 4th goal of a 5-0 win
02/01 vs Sunderland - 2 assists in a 3-0 win

First half of season: 4 goals, 6 assists
------------
30/12 vs QPR - 1 assist in 1 3-0 win
26/12 vs Stoke - 1 goal in a 3-1 defeat (penalty that gave us the lead)
22/12 vs Fulham - 1 goal, 2 assists in a 4-0 win
15/12 vs Aston Villa - 1 goal in a 3-1 loss (consolation goal)
09/12 vs West Ham - 1 assist in a 3-2 win (assisted Johnson to take the lead)
28/10 vs Everton - 1 assist in a 2-2 draw
23/09 vs Man Utd - 1 goal in a 1-2 loss (goal gave us a 1-0 lead)
26/08 vs Man City - 1 assist in a 2-2 draw (assisted Skrtel to take the lead)
 
I think if we upgrade on Lucas, Allen/Hendo's play will improve as well.

We do need another name for that group though, with Shelvey and Suso leaving.
 
would Er!iksen help the midfield trio? he would add more guile and attacking play, but I am not sure about power and pace in our midfield.
 
red_maradona said:
Stevie, Lucas, Henderson, Allen.

All battling for 3 places.

That midfield lacks pace, goals, and power. It's pretty poor to be honest. None of them bar Stevie (and only just) would get into the midfield squad of the top 4.

Let's hope the marquis players BR is talking about are for our midfield. Otherwise, we are going to get overhwhelmed, and outplayed.
Click to expand...

Have you seen the state of United's midfield? I wouldn't be so sure on that. Henderson is clearly improving and adding goals to his game, Stevie's record last season was still reasonably good and better than most of the competition in his position for the big sides. Exaggeration much? We need a midfielder, but suggesting Gerrard and Hendo couldn't play a part for a top side is OTT.
 
Consistency is the main problem - they've all shown quality during their time here but only in glimpses and that's what's frustrating.

We only need two of Allen, Henderson and Lucas, IMO, and even that might be too kind.
 
mark1975 said:
Have you seen the state of United's midfield? I wouldn't be so sure on that. Henderson is clearly improving and adding goals to his game, Stevie's record last season was still reasonably good and better than most of the competition in his position for the big sides. Exaggeration much? We need a midfielder, but suggesting Gerrard and Hendo couldn't play a part for a top side is OTT.
Click to expand...

not sure i agree we that. I think man for man our midfield is the weakest, there is a reason united are champions. naturally as fans we might have an over-inflated sense of how good are players are. we only have one world class player.
 
red_maradona said:
not sure i agree we that. I think man for man our midfield is the weakest, there is a reason united are champions. naturally as fans we might have an over-inflated sense of how good are players are. we only have one world class player.
Click to expand...

I think you're dumbing down our players and bigging up others. If you're saying Gerrard is past being World Class, who do United have in midfield who is? I don't have an overinflated sense of their worth, I said Henderson improved last season and statistically Gerrard will still chip in, I think you were over estimating other midfields, and in particular United's and (as per) over doing the "end of the World is nigh" stuff.
 
mark1975 said:
I think you're dumbing down our players and bigging up others. If you're saying Gerrard is past being World Class, who do United have in midfield who is? I don't have an overinflated sense of their worth, I said Henderson improved last season and statistically Gerrard will still chip in, I think you were over estimating other midfields, and in particular United's and (as per) over doing the "end of the World is nigh" stuff.
Click to expand...

i would agree that I was bigging up others, but I am bigging up the midfield of the league champions, not exactly a speculative opinion. i may be slightly harsh on our midfield, but how many points did we finish behind them?
 
I might actually break my habit of avoiding watching United this season because it'll be fascinating to see how they hold up. You often look at some of their players and wonder how they do it - Ferguson was often cited as the reason. Now they have another manager that has also shown he can build a team that is greater than the sum of it's parts but will it be enough at Utd...

As for our midfield, it has been a problem and as Ross said leaves us in a bit of a dilemma because there is no-one there that is really owning their position week in, week out and that sadly includes Gerrard despite the fact that he's still got a lot of quality to offer.

I'd love for us to buy an amazing midfielder that would solve the problem but it doesn't look like it's on the cards this summer - at least not by the look of paper talk so far. Hopefully we'll get enough of an incremental improvement from the current lot coupled with the added quality in other areas to make enough of a difference.

United have gotten by without a top class midfield because teams are scared of them and they're used to going out there and attacking the opposition with everything they've got. We may end up with a great attack but we're probably some way off that winning mentality.

For once I'd love to see us start the season with a bang and hand out some thrashings. It'd be interesting to see how the team and the other teams in the league respond.
 
Tbh I think Henderson too often thinks he is the small/new player at a big club.
He needs to start thinking himself of the main man more and take charge as he did (at times) at Sunderland.

Joe Allen too.
 
Utd have got by because they've had consistency on and off the pitch, with players bought or developed that are likely to slot in to their way of playing as seamlessly as possibly.

What we've tended to do is buy individuals and mold the team around them, which is flawed.

You look at Carrick and you think, how the fuck does that work - but it's because he does the job the team needs. Sure there are better players, individually, that may not add as much to the team collectively.

We've, historically, been fucking awful at this.
 
I don't quite agree.

What United have successfully been able to do is create a balance between the individual and the team. Sure, they buy guys like Carrick and Valencia who do a job for the side when perhaps more talented players could've been bought, but the team overall plays with a lot of freedom and allows individuals to shine.

We have yet to get that balance right. Benitez for example very much bought for the team as opposed to individuals but never quite allowed players enough freedom or bought in enough individual flair.
 
Hyena said:
Tbh I think Henderson too often thinks he is the small/new player at a big club.
He needs to start thinking himself of the main man more and take charge as he did (at times) at Sunderland.

Joe Allen too.
Click to expand...

I think Henderson has really started to pick up in that regard. I think he'll have a fantastic preseason.
 
red_maradona said:
Stevie, Lucas, Henderson, Allen.
Let's hope the marquis players BR is talking about are for our midfield. Otherwise, we are going to get overhwhelmed, and outplayed.
Click to expand...

I don't mean to be rude but I do believe you mean marquee player though I suppose a marquis might make sense too.
 
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