Central defense
- Thread starter rurikbird
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You don't half give your fans ammunition, you know that..? Sometimes, I think you do it purposely...
We better not let in any goals next season.
No pressure Dejan.
No pressure Dejan.
barret says 20 mill pounds
I feel like Rodgers is too focused on the first game of the season.
^
Could also look at that as he was our key target above all others having done all the analysis, and we've got him..
Let's be honest, there aren't that many great CBs available for purchase at the moment, think the World Cup was a good example of the distinct lack of great defenders around at this present time.
Could also look at that as he was our key target above all others having done all the analysis, and we've got him..
Let's be honest, there aren't that many great CBs available for purchase at the moment, think the World Cup was a good example of the distinct lack of great defenders around at this present time.
Nice bit of skill but it came against a soulless ginger. May as well have been a training dummy.
Good. I like Sakho, but it could be said it's taken him a bit of time to settle. I hope it's not a case of Dejan vu with Lovren here.
I think it's pretty clear that Lovren was our number 1 target for defence. That doesn't mean we've ignored everyone else in the world. We seem to have a real determination to seal our first choice targets this year, which I think is a good thing. Of course, if they don't succeed then they'll be nowhere for Rodgers to hide.
It sounds like we're overpaying around twofold for our first choice transfer targets, and are otherwise being a bit narrowminded as far as alternatives go, if you ask me. The argument some are making, that these higher fees are just the price of doing business, is lazy reasoning to justify our lackluster transfer approach.
I really only have a problem with the Lovren/Lallana signings though. Definitely feels like we're letting Southampton have their way with us, which isn't a good precedent to set when you still have a ton of money in hand. Especially on targets who would force a move to us if they had to.
At the end of the day though, if it works out, all will be forgotten. It almost feels like at times though that we have two completely different sets of scouting/transfer people in charge of transfer within the league, and international dealings. The international people seem quite savvy in finding good targets like Can, Markovic, or Coutinho(Plus Mkhitaryan, Diego Costa, etc).
But the people who look at targets within the league really struggle, their only real coup has been Sturridge in recent years. Lambert and Remy seem like solid picks as well, but their selections for transfer targets seem very...formulaic rather than intuitive. Or they see one success like Sturridge, an outcast at Chelsea who succeeded here, and try to wrangle in Bertrand and Moses to try and replicate the success they know. Granted there is a much higher level of competition for targets in a smaller pool, and teams don't want to help rival sides, but something just seems a bit off by the targets we've had and the prices we've paid in the last couple seasons.
Whirly - the reported fee for Lovren is 16m up front and potential add-ons. If that's twofold his price by your reckoning we should be paying 8m for him.
That's what Southampton paid for him a year ago (with one year left on his contract) since when he's had an excellent first premiership season and quickly established himself as a dominant Prem league centre back with a long remaining contract. At 25, with his best years ahead of him, 16m is a good price.
Lallana (at approx 20m up front) has also established himself quickly as one of the league's best attacking players and broke through internationally. As club captain at Southampton, 26 years old, with a similarly long contract in place we were never going to get him for 10m either?
Quite apart from the contextual factors of the market with generally inflated prices around due to the increased TV money etc. ..
That's what Southampton paid for him a year ago (with one year left on his contract) since when he's had an excellent first premiership season and quickly established himself as a dominant Prem league centre back with a long remaining contract. At 25, with his best years ahead of him, 16m is a good price.
Lallana (at approx 20m up front) has also established himself quickly as one of the league's best attacking players and broke through internationally. As club captain at Southampton, 26 years old, with a similarly long contract in place we were never going to get him for 10m either?
Quite apart from the contextual factors of the market with generally inflated prices around due to the increased TV money etc. ..
You've banged this drum before Whirly - and you are way off base or your hyperbole is off the charts !
If you think we (or anyone) could have got Lovren for £8m (plus add-ons) instead of £16m (plus add-ons) and Lallana for £10m (plus add-ons) instead of £20m (plus add-ons) then everyone here will want some of whatever you're smoking ! Force a move ? You mean like Suarez last season ?
How much are the going rates for the likes of Mangala ? Vidal ? Pogba ? Reus ? Isco ? Generally 2-3 times as much and that's assuming they would even want to come to LFC.
EDIT. Oops see Buddha got there first !
Why do you people constantly disregard the add ons? They will be negotiated in such a way that they will almost assuredly be paid out. You can't just ignore shipping and sales tax because it makes you feel better about how much money you spent on ebay last night.
For a player who went to the media and claimed he was already mentally checked out though, we shouldn't be paying 20M. That's the bottom line here. You go look at your Topraks and Manolas-es for a few days, get the media buzzing, and offer Southampton 15M. I guess by your logic that would be 11M plus add ons, or something.
Lallana should have cost around 12M, and no more than 15M. When we negotiate as a club, we don't care if the player we're buying is a team captain, or a international breakthrough player, or anything of that ilk. Constantly making accommodations for the selling club's pseudo reluctance to part with a player is how you get skinned in a transfer. You only account for these intangibles when they work in your favor, especially when you're leveraging a smaller club.
This talk of some uber inflated TV money market where players are going for unheard of fees is a bit of a joke though. There might be more money floating around, but the only ones paying over the odds are us and United. And at this juncture, United don't really have a choice in the matter, so what's our excuse?
My hyperbole isn't anywhere near what you think it is though.
My numbers are about 12-15M for Lovren and 14-16M for Lallana, addons be damned.
Most players, when they want to force a move, get their way. Especially when it's a mid table club to a champions league side. James is doing it right now from Monaco to Real, and it seems to have sped things up dramatically. Us, and United with Rooney last summer are probably the only two exceptions I can think of in a decent time frame. The odds that we would get out price would be very reasonable.
Mangala: 30-35M; You know you're paying a premium with Porto's precedents in transfers.
Vidal: 35-45M; Injury seems to have knocked this down a bit
Pogba: 45-60M; Best young midfielder in the world, arguably
Reus 35-45M; Fits into any top side, and has a very well rounded game on top of pace
Isco; 30-40M; Prototypical AM/Winger and is extremely talented at a young age
All of these players are several tiers above Lallana though. Comparable players for me are Tadic, Firmino, and Shaqiri. For Lovren, my comparable options are Toprak, Manolas, and De Vrij.
It's not ignoring add-ons at all. The initial fee is what is paid right now, if add-ons are triggered it's usually a sign that the signing has worked out very well and consequently the player's value has risen anyway. No need for the sarcasm, you're barking up the wrong tree.
Southampton did not have to sell either player regardless of what anyone might say to the press - see Suarez for us last year. We held firm and were rewarded by a stellar season from Suarez. It's a bit simplistic on your part to think that all a player has to do is say he wants to leave to the press and that automatically guarantees a huge reduction on any prospective fee. And of course it matters to any fee negotiated whether the player being sought has had a breakthrough season (thus paying for realised potential) or is club captain - what factors do you think influence a players value then?
Your argument also doesn't take into account wages as the whole package outlay on our transfer targets. There's a huge difference between us paying 16+4m for Lovren on roughly 80k a week and Utd paying 30m for Shaw + 160k a week over 5 years - I wouldn't group us with Utd in that respect. It's reported that we've negotiated Remy down from a demanded 80k a week to roughly 60k a week thus saving us a potential 5m over the course of his contract.
The market is inflated relative to last season etc. Tv money is going up and will jump again in 2015/16 meaning the big clubs are prepared to go that extra mile to ensure they make top four this year. Hell, even Sunderland are potentially paying 12+2m for Borini.
Comments made above in red. Basically I think we have paid ball-park figures for the players Rodgers wanted as soon as the season ended. A small excess for inflation is to be expected when factoring in the increase in CL/PL/TV cash. It would be seriously naive to think that additional income would not affect transfer fees - especially so between PL clubs.
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