From the Guardian...
Carra: it's 2002 all over again
- Thread starter TheBunnyman
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like the story of icarus, everytime we fly too close too The Lying Rag we crash and burn.
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=37397.msg997213#msg997213 date=1259060865]
Carra talks too much sometimes. And the way he treats his dad as some kind of oracle of sobering wisdom is a bit frightening.
[/quote]
I'm happy to hear Carra being honest at a time like this and whether his dad is Ghandi and the Pope rolled into one or little street urching who doesn't know what life is about yet doesn't change the accuracy of his statement.
Football is very much like life; sometimes everything fits well, you're on top of everything and it seems like nothing can stop you while at others the same apparent set of circumstances requires a great deal of effort, hard work and desperation. Nothing comes easy.
My old man used to say that you can measure a champion by what he does and how he responds when nothings going his way rather than when everything is coming easy to him. For the record my dad is no oracle but that statement will always be true in every walk of life.
Carra talks too much sometimes. And the way he treats his dad as some kind of oracle of sobering wisdom is a bit frightening.
[/quote]
I'm happy to hear Carra being honest at a time like this and whether his dad is Ghandi and the Pope rolled into one or little street urching who doesn't know what life is about yet doesn't change the accuracy of his statement.
Football is very much like life; sometimes everything fits well, you're on top of everything and it seems like nothing can stop you while at others the same apparent set of circumstances requires a great deal of effort, hard work and desperation. Nothing comes easy.
My old man used to say that you can measure a champion by what he does and how he responds when nothings going his way rather than when everything is coming easy to him. For the record my dad is no oracle but that statement will always be true in every walk of life.
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg998310#msg998310 date=1259133357]
He's got his years mixed up. this is 2004 again. Just before the last fool got the sack after doing a piss poor job.
[/quote]
In 2004 we sacked a good man that improved the football club, and in 2009 we'd be doing the same. You'll be doing the same as well, i.e. shitting all over someone you cheered for, denigrating their achievements, revising the history, and generally having a fairly vile attitude. Both gave the supporters some really magical moments, and perhaps both will end up falling short of what you really wanted, but it's not some farcical binary where if they don't deliver the title they didn't do any good.
All this anger for us not making it out of the group stages after automatically qualifying, look I get it, but Houllier's firing was after a disappointment of missing the CL, scraping the CL and getting KOd from the Europa league. That gap in expectations demonstrates improvements made.
Both have done a good job for the club, and if neither delivers what everyone craves, it isn't because they are a fool, or that their stint as manager can be described as a "piss poor job".
He's got his years mixed up. this is 2004 again. Just before the last fool got the sack after doing a piss poor job.
[/quote]
In 2004 we sacked a good man that improved the football club, and in 2009 we'd be doing the same. You'll be doing the same as well, i.e. shitting all over someone you cheered for, denigrating their achievements, revising the history, and generally having a fairly vile attitude. Both gave the supporters some really magical moments, and perhaps both will end up falling short of what you really wanted, but it's not some farcical binary where if they don't deliver the title they didn't do any good.
All this anger for us not making it out of the group stages after automatically qualifying, look I get it, but Houllier's firing was after a disappointment of missing the CL, scraping the CL and getting KOd from the Europa league. That gap in expectations demonstrates improvements made.
Both have done a good job for the club, and if neither delivers what everyone craves, it isn't because they are a fool, or that their stint as manager can be described as a "piss poor job".
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=37397.msg998349#msg998349 date=1259142176]
Why the fuck did you attract doc rule Farky!!
Now we've got a glock with a good grasp of english
[/quote]
Sorry. Plus it's no fun if Glock never comes back on here to face the music.
Why the fuck did you attract doc rule Farky!!
Now we've got a glock with a good grasp of english
[/quote]
Sorry. Plus it's no fun if Glock never comes back on here to face the music.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37397.msg998354#msg998354 date=1259142617]
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=37397.msg998349#msg998349 date=1259142176]
Why the fuck did you attract doc rule Farky!!
Now we've got a glock with a good grasp of english
[/quote]
Sorry. Plus it's no fun if Glock never comes back on here to face the music.
[/quote]
I MISS GLOCK :'(
*realises he needs a slap*
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=37397.msg998349#msg998349 date=1259142176]
Why the fuck did you attract doc rule Farky!!
Now we've got a glock with a good grasp of english
[/quote]
Sorry. Plus it's no fun if Glock never comes back on here to face the music.
[/quote]
I MISS GLOCK :'(
*realises he needs a slap*
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37397.msg998315#msg998315 date=1259135522]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg998310#msg998310 date=1259133357]
He's got his years mixed up. this is 2004 again. Just before the last fool got the sack after doing a piss poor job.
[/quote]
In 2004 we sacked a good man that improved the football club, and in 2008 we'd be doing the same. You'll be doing the same as well, i.e. shitting all over someone you cheered for, denigrating their achievements, revising the history, and generally having a fairly vile attitude. Both gave the supporters some really magical moments, and perhaps both will end up falling short of what you really wanted, but it's not some farcical binary where if they don't deliver the title they didn't do any good.
All this anger for us not making it out of the group stages after automatically qualifying, look I get it, but Houllier's firing was after a disappointment of missing the CL, scraping the CL and getting KOd from the Europa league. That gap in expectations demonstrates improvements made.
Both have done a good job for the club, and if neither delivers what everyone craves, it isn't because they are a fool, or that their stint as manager can be described as a "piss poor job".
[/quote]
*warm applause*
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg998310#msg998310 date=1259133357]
He's got his years mixed up. this is 2004 again. Just before the last fool got the sack after doing a piss poor job.
[/quote]
In 2004 we sacked a good man that improved the football club, and in 2008 we'd be doing the same. You'll be doing the same as well, i.e. shitting all over someone you cheered for, denigrating their achievements, revising the history, and generally having a fairly vile attitude. Both gave the supporters some really magical moments, and perhaps both will end up falling short of what you really wanted, but it's not some farcical binary where if they don't deliver the title they didn't do any good.
All this anger for us not making it out of the group stages after automatically qualifying, look I get it, but Houllier's firing was after a disappointment of missing the CL, scraping the CL and getting KOd from the Europa league. That gap in expectations demonstrates improvements made.
Both have done a good job for the club, and if neither delivers what everyone craves, it isn't because they are a fool, or that their stint as manager can be described as a "piss poor job".
[/quote]
*warm applause*
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=37397.msg998306#msg998306 date=1259128715]
I'm happy to hear Carra being honest at a time like this and whether his dad is Ghandi and the Pope rolled into one or little street urching who doesn't know what life is about yet doesn't change the accuracy of his statement.
[/quote]
Making yourself a slave to specious historical repetition and fate like some pre-Enlightenment bog digger is hardly to be applauded. Football always has an infantile obsession with the past. But it's just the past. I don't know what the 2009/10 season will end up as, but I doubt Jamie going round the dressing room with tales of previous seasons will help at all, apart from making the really stupid players feel there's some kind of magical fate involved. Stay in the here and now, keep your head down, concentrate on each match as it comes and shut the feck up.
I'm happy to hear Carra being honest at a time like this and whether his dad is Ghandi and the Pope rolled into one or little street urching who doesn't know what life is about yet doesn't change the accuracy of his statement.
[/quote]
Making yourself a slave to specious historical repetition and fate like some pre-Enlightenment bog digger is hardly to be applauded. Football always has an infantile obsession with the past. But it's just the past. I don't know what the 2009/10 season will end up as, but I doubt Jamie going round the dressing room with tales of previous seasons will help at all, apart from making the really stupid players feel there's some kind of magical fate involved. Stay in the here and now, keep your head down, concentrate on each match as it comes and shut the feck up.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37397.msg998315#msg998315 date=1259135522]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg998310#msg998310 date=1259133357]
He's got his years mixed up. this is 2004 again. Just before the last fool got the sack after doing a piss poor job.
[/quote]
In 2004 we sacked a good man that improved the football club, and in 2009 we'd be doing the same. You'll be doing the same as well, i.e. shitting all over someone you cheered for, denigrating their achievements, revising the history, and generally having a fairly vile attitude. Both gave the supporters some really magical moments, and perhaps both will end up falling short of what you really wanted, but it's not some farcical binary where if they don't deliver the title they didn't do any good.
All this anger for us not making it out of the group stages after automatically qualifying, look I get it, but Houllier's firing was after a disappointment of missing the CL, scraping the CL and getting KOd from the Europa league. That gap in expectations demonstrates improvements made.
Both have done a good job for the club, and if neither delivers what everyone craves, it isn't because they are a fool, or that their stint as manager can be described as a "piss poor job".
[/quote]
exceptional post farky.
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg998310#msg998310 date=1259133357]
He's got his years mixed up. this is 2004 again. Just before the last fool got the sack after doing a piss poor job.
[/quote]
In 2004 we sacked a good man that improved the football club, and in 2009 we'd be doing the same. You'll be doing the same as well, i.e. shitting all over someone you cheered for, denigrating their achievements, revising the history, and generally having a fairly vile attitude. Both gave the supporters some really magical moments, and perhaps both will end up falling short of what you really wanted, but it's not some farcical binary where if they don't deliver the title they didn't do any good.
All this anger for us not making it out of the group stages after automatically qualifying, look I get it, but Houllier's firing was after a disappointment of missing the CL, scraping the CL and getting KOd from the Europa league. That gap in expectations demonstrates improvements made.
Both have done a good job for the club, and if neither delivers what everyone craves, it isn't because they are a fool, or that their stint as manager can be described as a "piss poor job".
[/quote]
exceptional post farky.
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=37397.msg998362#msg998362 date=1259143337]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=37397.msg998306#msg998306 date=1259128715]
I'm happy to hear Carra being honest at a time like this and whether his dad is Ghandi and the Pope rolled into one or little street urching who doesn't know what life is about yet doesn't change the accuracy of his statement.
[/quote]
Making yourself a slave to specious historical repetition and fate like some pre-Enlightenment bog digger is hardly to be applauded. Football always has an infantile obsession with the past. But it's just the past. I don't know what the 2009/10 season will end up as, but I doubt Jamie going round the dressing room with tales of previous seasons will help at all, apart from making the really stupid players feel there's some kind of magical fate involved. Stay in the here and now, keep your head down, concentrate on each match as it comes and shut the feck up.
[/quote]
Perhaps my powers of comprehension deserted me in the mystical layers of history but during my initial and secondary superficial examinations I concluded that Carra said something quite similar. "We've got to tough it out, get our head down and fight. We have to get through it and move on." Sounds remarkably like staying in the present, looking forward rather than backward, keeping your head down and concentrating on each match. I'd suggest also that Carra is going to find it tricky to communicate this if he decides to "shut the feck up".
There are limits to how much I want to hear from the players but I'm a hell of a lot happier hearing that Carra is trying to spur the players on while admiting that we're not doing the right things at the moment. The alternative is hearing once more from our manager that we're playing good football, playing well, controlling matches but it is difficult with so many injuries.
I remain entirely confused at your references to the past; what the feck the point is of experience if you can't learn from it or educate others with it is baffling.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=37397.msg998306#msg998306 date=1259128715]
I'm happy to hear Carra being honest at a time like this and whether his dad is Ghandi and the Pope rolled into one or little street urching who doesn't know what life is about yet doesn't change the accuracy of his statement.
[/quote]
Making yourself a slave to specious historical repetition and fate like some pre-Enlightenment bog digger is hardly to be applauded. Football always has an infantile obsession with the past. But it's just the past. I don't know what the 2009/10 season will end up as, but I doubt Jamie going round the dressing room with tales of previous seasons will help at all, apart from making the really stupid players feel there's some kind of magical fate involved. Stay in the here and now, keep your head down, concentrate on each match as it comes and shut the feck up.
[/quote]
Perhaps my powers of comprehension deserted me in the mystical layers of history but during my initial and secondary superficial examinations I concluded that Carra said something quite similar. "We've got to tough it out, get our head down and fight. We have to get through it and move on." Sounds remarkably like staying in the present, looking forward rather than backward, keeping your head down and concentrating on each match. I'd suggest also that Carra is going to find it tricky to communicate this if he decides to "shut the feck up".
There are limits to how much I want to hear from the players but I'm a hell of a lot happier hearing that Carra is trying to spur the players on while admiting that we're not doing the right things at the moment. The alternative is hearing once more from our manager that we're playing good football, playing well, controlling matches but it is difficult with so many injuries.
I remain entirely confused at your references to the past; what the feck the point is of experience if you can't learn from it or educate others with it is baffling.
I'm not discounting the use of history. :🙂 I'm merely saying I doubt it's of much use to mention a previous season, with a different squad and staff, to a set of players who already seem to be dazzled by such fatuous myths and superstitions as 'things even themselves out'. Sometimes it's best to avoid all the comparisons and just concentrate on specific problems and challenges here and now, not start being the Kop anorak. As for what a manager says, I doubt it's the same behind closed doors as it is in the presence of Geoff Shreeves, and I doubt you think it is, either. I'd prefer Carra to concentrate on getting his own game right.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37397.msg998315#msg998315 date=1259135522]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg998310#msg998310 date=1259133357]
He's got his years mixed up. this is 2004 again. Just before the last fool got the sack after doing a piss poor job.
[/quote]
In 2004 we sacked a good man that improved the football club, and in 2009 we'd be doing the same. You'll be doing the same as well, i.e. shitting all over someone you cheered for, denigrating their achievements, revising the history, and generally having a fairly vile attitude. Both gave the supporters some really magical moments, and perhaps both will end up falling short of what you really wanted, but it's not some farcical binary where if they don't deliver the title they didn't do any good.
All this anger for us not making it out of the group stages after automatically qualifying, look I get it, but Houllier's firing was after a disappointment of missing the CL, scraping the CL and getting KOd from the Europa league. That gap in expectations demonstrates improvements made.
Both have done a good job for the club, and if neither delivers what everyone craves, it isn't because they are a fool, or that their stint as manager can be described as a "piss poor job".
[/quote]
Remind me what Rafa has won with this team he build himself. Meaning after the first two years in charge.
Remind me of what young players have come through the ranks under Rafa.
When given the money to build a championship team and never coming close, that is a piss poor job. Had Rafa not won the luckiest CL in history then he would have been sacked already. And don't use last season as an example of coming close. We didn't. Anytime we got close to United they always had multiple games in hand. United would have had to collapse last season for us to have a chance. They didn't so we didn't.
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg998310#msg998310 date=1259133357]
He's got his years mixed up. this is 2004 again. Just before the last fool got the sack after doing a piss poor job.
[/quote]
In 2004 we sacked a good man that improved the football club, and in 2009 we'd be doing the same. You'll be doing the same as well, i.e. shitting all over someone you cheered for, denigrating their achievements, revising the history, and generally having a fairly vile attitude. Both gave the supporters some really magical moments, and perhaps both will end up falling short of what you really wanted, but it's not some farcical binary where if they don't deliver the title they didn't do any good.
All this anger for us not making it out of the group stages after automatically qualifying, look I get it, but Houllier's firing was after a disappointment of missing the CL, scraping the CL and getting KOd from the Europa league. That gap in expectations demonstrates improvements made.
Both have done a good job for the club, and if neither delivers what everyone craves, it isn't because they are a fool, or that their stint as manager can be described as a "piss poor job".
[/quote]
Remind me what Rafa has won with this team he build himself. Meaning after the first two years in charge.
Remind me of what young players have come through the ranks under Rafa.
When given the money to build a championship team and never coming close, that is a piss poor job. Had Rafa not won the luckiest CL in history then he would have been sacked already. And don't use last season as an example of coming close. We didn't. Anytime we got close to United they always had multiple games in hand. United would have had to collapse last season for us to have a chance. They didn't so we didn't.
Doc, we did come close last season, closer than we have in decades. It's a bit transparent for you to basically say "Rafa didn't come close, but don't use last season, when we had a credible title challenge, as the obvious counter example". What would close have to be?
It's even more transparent for you to attack Rafa and describe his CL win as lucky. You are simply providing a concrete example of how you "denigrate achievements" and "revise history".
I remember after the CL hearing supporters of other teams talking about how lucky Rafa was, and how luck had got us to the CL win. I remember reading that horrible imaginary conversation posted everywhere between a father and son, about how, no, we beat the best teams from a number of different leagues to even get to the final.
The fact is that we showed an unbelievable amount of defensive organization, and heart, combined with great tactics and skillful cameos and contributions from our best, and sometimes not so great players. I didn't tend to hear about how Rafa was lucky for some time, especially not after we got to the final again, and were a force in the competition year after year.
Now some of our own supporters are making those arguments. I'd be forgiven IF I thought they were all cunts for doing so, having jumped up and down like retards that night in may, and subsequently seen us achieve a series of runs and victories which elevated our standing around the footballing world.
Hidden in your post are two obvious, worthwhile points, that I myself agree with, probably because they are so obvious that they aren't worth saying.
1) The failure of Rafa's youth development
2) The failure of Rafa to win trophies as of late with his own team, I actually think Rafa has significantly improved the first team, but as we've seen, has gone from squad bloat to squad famine.
It's even more transparent for you to attack Rafa and describe his CL win as lucky. You are simply providing a concrete example of how you "denigrate achievements" and "revise history".
I remember after the CL hearing supporters of other teams talking about how lucky Rafa was, and how luck had got us to the CL win. I remember reading that horrible imaginary conversation posted everywhere between a father and son, about how, no, we beat the best teams from a number of different leagues to even get to the final.
The fact is that we showed an unbelievable amount of defensive organization, and heart, combined with great tactics and skillful cameos and contributions from our best, and sometimes not so great players. I didn't tend to hear about how Rafa was lucky for some time, especially not after we got to the final again, and were a force in the competition year after year.
Now some of our own supporters are making those arguments. I'd be forgiven IF I thought they were all cunts for doing so, having jumped up and down like retards that night in may, and subsequently seen us achieve a series of runs and victories which elevated our standing around the footballing world.
Hidden in your post are two obvious, worthwhile points, that I myself agree with, probably because they are so obvious that they aren't worth saying.
1) The failure of Rafa's youth development
2) The failure of Rafa to win trophies as of late with his own team, I actually think Rafa has significantly improved the first team, but as we've seen, has gone from squad bloat to squad famine.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37397.msg998315#msg998315 date=1259135522]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg998310#msg998310 date=1259133357]
He's got his years mixed up. this is 2004 again. Just before the last fool got the sack after doing a piss poor job.
[/quote]
In 2004 we sacked a good man that improved the football club, and in 2009 we'd be doing the same. You'll be doing the same as well, i.e. shitting all over someone you cheered for, denigrating their achievements, revising the history, and generally having a fairly vile attitude. Both gave the supporters some really magical moments, and perhaps both will end up falling short of what you really wanted, but it's not some farcical binary where if they don't deliver the title they didn't do any good.
All this anger for us not making it out of the group stages after automatically qualifying, look I get it, but Houllier's firing was after a disappointment of missing the CL, scraping the CL and getting KOd from the Europa league. That gap in expectations demonstrates improvements made.
Both have done a good job for the club, and if neither delivers what everyone craves, it isn't because they are a fool, or that their stint as manager can be described as a "piss poor job".
[/quote]
Excellent post, mate.
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg998310#msg998310 date=1259133357]
He's got his years mixed up. this is 2004 again. Just before the last fool got the sack after doing a piss poor job.
[/quote]
In 2004 we sacked a good man that improved the football club, and in 2009 we'd be doing the same. You'll be doing the same as well, i.e. shitting all over someone you cheered for, denigrating their achievements, revising the history, and generally having a fairly vile attitude. Both gave the supporters some really magical moments, and perhaps both will end up falling short of what you really wanted, but it's not some farcical binary where if they don't deliver the title they didn't do any good.
All this anger for us not making it out of the group stages after automatically qualifying, look I get it, but Houllier's firing was after a disappointment of missing the CL, scraping the CL and getting KOd from the Europa league. That gap in expectations demonstrates improvements made.
Both have done a good job for the club, and if neither delivers what everyone craves, it isn't because they are a fool, or that their stint as manager can be described as a "piss poor job".
[/quote]
Excellent post, mate.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37397.msg998724#msg998724 date=1259176541]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37397.msg998315#msg998315 date=1259135522]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg998310#msg998310 date=1259133357]
He's got his years mixed up. this is 2004 again. Just before the last fool got the sack after doing a piss poor job.
[/quote]
In 2004 we sacked a good man that improved the football club, and in 2009 we'd be doing the same. You'll be doing the same as well, i.e. shitting all over someone you cheered for, denigrating their achievements, revising the history, and generally having a fairly vile attitude. Both gave the supporters some really magical moments, and perhaps both will end up falling short of what you really wanted, but it's not some farcical binary where if they don't deliver the title they didn't do any good.
All this anger for us not making it out of the group stages after automatically qualifying, look I get it, but Houllier's firing was after a disappointment of missing the CL, scraping the CL and getting KOd from the Europa league. That gap in expectations demonstrates improvements made.
Both have done a good job for the club, and if neither delivers what everyone craves, it isn't because they are a fool, or that their stint as manager can be described as a "piss poor job".
[/quote]
Excellent post, mate.
[/quote]
x2, a superb post.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37397.msg998315#msg998315 date=1259135522]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg998310#msg998310 date=1259133357]
He's got his years mixed up. this is 2004 again. Just before the last fool got the sack after doing a piss poor job.
[/quote]
In 2004 we sacked a good man that improved the football club, and in 2009 we'd be doing the same. You'll be doing the same as well, i.e. shitting all over someone you cheered for, denigrating their achievements, revising the history, and generally having a fairly vile attitude. Both gave the supporters some really magical moments, and perhaps both will end up falling short of what you really wanted, but it's not some farcical binary where if they don't deliver the title they didn't do any good.
All this anger for us not making it out of the group stages after automatically qualifying, look I get it, but Houllier's firing was after a disappointment of missing the CL, scraping the CL and getting KOd from the Europa league. That gap in expectations demonstrates improvements made.
Both have done a good job for the club, and if neither delivers what everyone craves, it isn't because they are a fool, or that their stint as manager can be described as a "piss poor job".
[/quote]
Excellent post, mate.
[/quote]
x2, a superb post.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37397.msg998722#msg998722 date=1259176389]
Doc, we did come close last season, closer than we have in decades. It's a bit transparent for you to basically say "Rafa didn't come close, but don't use last season, when we had a credible title challenge, as the obvious counter example". What would close have to be?
It's even more transparent for you to attack Rafa and describe his CL win as lucky. You are simply providing a concrete example of how you "denigrate achievements" and "revise history".
I remember after the CL hearing supporters of other teams talking about how lucky Rafa was, and how luck had got us to the CL win. I remember reading that horrible imaginary conversation posted everywhere between a father and son, about how, no, we beat the best teams from a number of different leagues to even get to the final.
The fact is that we showed an unbelievable amount of defensive organization, and heart, combined with great tactics and skillful cameos and contributions from our best, and sometimes not so great players. I didn't tend to hear about how Rafa was lucky for some time, especially not after we got to the final again, and were a force in the competition year after year.
Now some of our own supporters are making those arguments. I'd be forgiven IF I thought they were all cunts for doing so, having jumped up and down like retards that night in may, and subsequently seen us achieve a series of runs and victories which elevated our standing around the footballing world.
Hidden in your post are two obvious, worthwhile points, that I myself agree with, probably because they are so obvious that they aren't worth saying.
1) The failure of Rafa's youth development
2) The failure of Rafa to win trophies as of late with his own team, I actually think Rafa has significantly improved the first team, but as we've seen, has gone from squad bloat to squad famine.
[/quote]
Winning the CL was wonderful but it's a simple fact that we had an incredible amount of luck and good fortune on the way.
And no, last season we did not challenge for the title. We should have won the league last season. We were coasting until Rafa imploded and threw his tantrum at Ferguson. United stumbled their way to the title without giving us a sniff at it.
Doc, we did come close last season, closer than we have in decades. It's a bit transparent for you to basically say "Rafa didn't come close, but don't use last season, when we had a credible title challenge, as the obvious counter example". What would close have to be?
It's even more transparent for you to attack Rafa and describe his CL win as lucky. You are simply providing a concrete example of how you "denigrate achievements" and "revise history".
I remember after the CL hearing supporters of other teams talking about how lucky Rafa was, and how luck had got us to the CL win. I remember reading that horrible imaginary conversation posted everywhere between a father and son, about how, no, we beat the best teams from a number of different leagues to even get to the final.
The fact is that we showed an unbelievable amount of defensive organization, and heart, combined with great tactics and skillful cameos and contributions from our best, and sometimes not so great players. I didn't tend to hear about how Rafa was lucky for some time, especially not after we got to the final again, and were a force in the competition year after year.
Now some of our own supporters are making those arguments. I'd be forgiven IF I thought they were all cunts for doing so, having jumped up and down like retards that night in may, and subsequently seen us achieve a series of runs and victories which elevated our standing around the footballing world.
Hidden in your post are two obvious, worthwhile points, that I myself agree with, probably because they are so obvious that they aren't worth saying.
1) The failure of Rafa's youth development
2) The failure of Rafa to win trophies as of late with his own team, I actually think Rafa has significantly improved the first team, but as we've seen, has gone from squad bloat to squad famine.
[/quote]
Winning the CL was wonderful but it's a simple fact that we had an incredible amount of luck and good fortune on the way.
And no, last season we did not challenge for the title. We should have won the league last season. We were coasting until Rafa imploded and threw his tantrum at Ferguson. United stumbled their way to the title without giving us a sniff at it.
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg998732#msg998732 date=1259177136]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37397.msg998722#msg998722 date=1259176389]
Doc, we did come close last season, closer than we have in decades. It's a bit transparent for you to basically say "Rafa didn't come close, but don't use last season, when we had a credible title challenge, as the obvious counter example". What would close have to be?
It's even more transparent for you to attack Rafa and describe his CL win as lucky. You are simply providing a concrete example of how you "denigrate achievements" and "revise history".
I remember after the CL hearing supporters of other teams talking about how lucky Rafa was, and how luck had got us to the CL win. I remember reading that horrible imaginary conversation posted everywhere between a father and son, about how, no, we beat the best teams from a number of different leagues to even get to the final.
The fact is that we showed an unbelievable amount of defensive organization, and heart, combined with great tactics and skillful cameos and contributions from our best, and sometimes not so great players. I didn't tend to hear about how Rafa was lucky for some time, especially not after we got to the final again, and were a force in the competition year after year.
Now some of our own supporters are making those arguments. I'd be forgiven IF I thought they were all cunts for doing so, having jumped up and down like retards that night in may, and subsequently seen us achieve a series of runs and victories which elevated our standing around the footballing world.
Hidden in your post are two obvious, worthwhile points, that I myself agree with, probably because they are so obvious that they aren't worth saying.
1) The failure of Rafa's youth development
2) The failure of Rafa to win trophies as of late with his own team, I actually think Rafa has significantly improved the first team, but as we've seen, has gone from squad bloat to squad famine.
[/quote]
Winning the CL was wonderful but it's a simple fact that we had an incredible amount of luck and good fortune on the way.
[/quote]
Yes, it's often forgotten that in 2005 we were the only team in the history of European football to win a trophy with the aid of luck and good fortune. every other side (like United in 99) won it through their own means alone.
Ta for the reminder.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37397.msg998722#msg998722 date=1259176389]
Doc, we did come close last season, closer than we have in decades. It's a bit transparent for you to basically say "Rafa didn't come close, but don't use last season, when we had a credible title challenge, as the obvious counter example". What would close have to be?
It's even more transparent for you to attack Rafa and describe his CL win as lucky. You are simply providing a concrete example of how you "denigrate achievements" and "revise history".
I remember after the CL hearing supporters of other teams talking about how lucky Rafa was, and how luck had got us to the CL win. I remember reading that horrible imaginary conversation posted everywhere between a father and son, about how, no, we beat the best teams from a number of different leagues to even get to the final.
The fact is that we showed an unbelievable amount of defensive organization, and heart, combined with great tactics and skillful cameos and contributions from our best, and sometimes not so great players. I didn't tend to hear about how Rafa was lucky for some time, especially not after we got to the final again, and were a force in the competition year after year.
Now some of our own supporters are making those arguments. I'd be forgiven IF I thought they were all cunts for doing so, having jumped up and down like retards that night in may, and subsequently seen us achieve a series of runs and victories which elevated our standing around the footballing world.
Hidden in your post are two obvious, worthwhile points, that I myself agree with, probably because they are so obvious that they aren't worth saying.
1) The failure of Rafa's youth development
2) The failure of Rafa to win trophies as of late with his own team, I actually think Rafa has significantly improved the first team, but as we've seen, has gone from squad bloat to squad famine.
[/quote]
Winning the CL was wonderful but it's a simple fact that we had an incredible amount of luck and good fortune on the way.
[/quote]
Yes, it's often forgotten that in 2005 we were the only team in the history of European football to win a trophy with the aid of luck and good fortune. every other side (like United in 99) won it through their own means alone.
Ta for the reminder.
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=37397.msg997213#msg997213 date=1259060865]
What a crap sentence.
Carra talks too much sometimes. And the way he treats his dad as some kind of oracle of sobering wisdom is a bit frightening.
[/quote]
Do most people who have a good relationship with their fathers not do this?
What a crap sentence.
Carra talks too much sometimes. And the way he treats his dad as some kind of oracle of sobering wisdom is a bit frightening.
[/quote]
Do most people who have a good relationship with their fathers not do this?
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37397.msg999110#msg999110 date=1259192883]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg998732#msg998732 date=1259177136]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37397.msg998722#msg998722 date=1259176389]
Doc, we did come close last season, closer than we have in decades. It's a bit transparent for you to basically say "Rafa didn't come close, but don't use last season, when we had a credible title challenge, as the obvious counter example". What would close have to be?
It's even more transparent for you to attack Rafa and describe his CL win as lucky. You are simply providing a concrete example of how you "denigrate achievements" and "revise history".
I remember after the CL hearing supporters of other teams talking about how lucky Rafa was, and how luck had got us to the CL win. I remember reading that horrible imaginary conversation posted everywhere between a father and son, about how, no, we beat the best teams from a number of different leagues to even get to the final.
The fact is that we showed an unbelievable amount of defensive organization, and heart, combined with great tactics and skillful cameos and contributions from our best, and sometimes not so great players. I didn't tend to hear about how Rafa was lucky for some time, especially not after we got to the final again, and were a force in the competition year after year.
Now some of our own supporters are making those arguments. I'd be forgiven IF I thought they were all cunts for doing so, having jumped up and down like retards that night in may, and subsequently seen us achieve a series of runs and victories which elevated our standing around the footballing world.
Hidden in your post are two obvious, worthwhile points, that I myself agree with, probably because they are so obvious that they aren't worth saying.
1) The failure of Rafa's youth development
2) The failure of Rafa to win trophies as of late with his own team, I actually think Rafa has significantly improved the first team, but as we've seen, has gone from squad bloat to squad famine.
[/quote]
Winning the CL was wonderful but it's a simple fact that we had an incredible amount of luck and good fortune on the way.
[/quote]
Yes, it's often forgotten that in 2005 we were the only team in the history of European football to win a trophy with the aid of luck and good fortune. every other side (like United in 99) won it through their own means alone.
Ta for the reminder.
[/quote]
None of them had as much fortune throughout the competition as we did. And United won their final without their two best players.
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg998732#msg998732 date=1259177136]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37397.msg998722#msg998722 date=1259176389]
Doc, we did come close last season, closer than we have in decades. It's a bit transparent for you to basically say "Rafa didn't come close, but don't use last season, when we had a credible title challenge, as the obvious counter example". What would close have to be?
It's even more transparent for you to attack Rafa and describe his CL win as lucky. You are simply providing a concrete example of how you "denigrate achievements" and "revise history".
I remember after the CL hearing supporters of other teams talking about how lucky Rafa was, and how luck had got us to the CL win. I remember reading that horrible imaginary conversation posted everywhere between a father and son, about how, no, we beat the best teams from a number of different leagues to even get to the final.
The fact is that we showed an unbelievable amount of defensive organization, and heart, combined with great tactics and skillful cameos and contributions from our best, and sometimes not so great players. I didn't tend to hear about how Rafa was lucky for some time, especially not after we got to the final again, and were a force in the competition year after year.
Now some of our own supporters are making those arguments. I'd be forgiven IF I thought they were all cunts for doing so, having jumped up and down like retards that night in may, and subsequently seen us achieve a series of runs and victories which elevated our standing around the footballing world.
Hidden in your post are two obvious, worthwhile points, that I myself agree with, probably because they are so obvious that they aren't worth saying.
1) The failure of Rafa's youth development
2) The failure of Rafa to win trophies as of late with his own team, I actually think Rafa has significantly improved the first team, but as we've seen, has gone from squad bloat to squad famine.
[/quote]
Winning the CL was wonderful but it's a simple fact that we had an incredible amount of luck and good fortune on the way.
[/quote]
Yes, it's often forgotten that in 2005 we were the only team in the history of European football to win a trophy with the aid of luck and good fortune. every other side (like United in 99) won it through their own means alone.
Ta for the reminder.
[/quote]
None of them had as much fortune throughout the competition as we did. And United won their final without their two best players.
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg999177#msg999177 date=1259198178]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37397.msg999110#msg999110 date=1259192883]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg998732#msg998732 date=1259177136]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37397.msg998722#msg998722 date=1259176389]
Doc, we did come close last season, closer than we have in decades. It's a bit transparent for you to basically say "Rafa didn't come close, but don't use last season, when we had a credible title challenge, as the obvious counter example". What would close have to be?
It's even more transparent for you to attack Rafa and describe his CL win as lucky. You are simply providing a concrete example of how you "denigrate achievements" and "revise history".
I remember after the CL hearing supporters of other teams talking about how lucky Rafa was, and how luck had got us to the CL win. I remember reading that horrible imaginary conversation posted everywhere between a father and son, about how, no, we beat the best teams from a number of different leagues to even get to the final.
The fact is that we showed an unbelievable amount of defensive organization, and heart, combined with great tactics and skillful cameos and contributions from our best, and sometimes not so great players. I didn't tend to hear about how Rafa was lucky for some time, especially not after we got to the final again, and were a force in the competition year after year.
Now some of our own supporters are making those arguments. I'd be forgiven IF I thought they were all cunts for doing so, having jumped up and down like retards that night in may, and subsequently seen us achieve a series of runs and victories which elevated our standing around the footballing world.
Hidden in your post are two obvious, worthwhile points, that I myself agree with, probably because they are so obvious that they aren't worth saying.
1) The failure of Rafa's youth development
2) The failure of Rafa to win trophies as of late with his own team, I actually think Rafa has significantly improved the first team, but as we've seen, has gone from squad bloat to squad famine.
[/quote]
Winning the CL was wonderful but it's a simple fact that we had an incredible amount of luck and good fortune on the way.
[/quote]
Yes, it's often forgotten that in 2005 we were the only team in the history of European football to win a trophy with the aid of luck and good fortune. every other side (like United in 99) won it through their own means alone.
Ta for the reminder.
[/quote]
None of them had as much fortune throughout the competition as we did. And United won their final without their two best players.
[/quote]
WE BEAT FUCKING JUVENTUS AWAY WITH ANTONIO NUNEZ IN THE TEAM YOU INSUFFERABLE CLOWN.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37397.msg999110#msg999110 date=1259192883]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg998732#msg998732 date=1259177136]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37397.msg998722#msg998722 date=1259176389]
Doc, we did come close last season, closer than we have in decades. It's a bit transparent for you to basically say "Rafa didn't come close, but don't use last season, when we had a credible title challenge, as the obvious counter example". What would close have to be?
It's even more transparent for you to attack Rafa and describe his CL win as lucky. You are simply providing a concrete example of how you "denigrate achievements" and "revise history".
I remember after the CL hearing supporters of other teams talking about how lucky Rafa was, and how luck had got us to the CL win. I remember reading that horrible imaginary conversation posted everywhere between a father and son, about how, no, we beat the best teams from a number of different leagues to even get to the final.
The fact is that we showed an unbelievable amount of defensive organization, and heart, combined with great tactics and skillful cameos and contributions from our best, and sometimes not so great players. I didn't tend to hear about how Rafa was lucky for some time, especially not after we got to the final again, and were a force in the competition year after year.
Now some of our own supporters are making those arguments. I'd be forgiven IF I thought they were all cunts for doing so, having jumped up and down like retards that night in may, and subsequently seen us achieve a series of runs and victories which elevated our standing around the footballing world.
Hidden in your post are two obvious, worthwhile points, that I myself agree with, probably because they are so obvious that they aren't worth saying.
1) The failure of Rafa's youth development
2) The failure of Rafa to win trophies as of late with his own team, I actually think Rafa has significantly improved the first team, but as we've seen, has gone from squad bloat to squad famine.
[/quote]
Winning the CL was wonderful but it's a simple fact that we had an incredible amount of luck and good fortune on the way.
[/quote]
Yes, it's often forgotten that in 2005 we were the only team in the history of European football to win a trophy with the aid of luck and good fortune. every other side (like United in 99) won it through their own means alone.
Ta for the reminder.
[/quote]
None of them had as much fortune throughout the competition as we did. And United won their final without their two best players.
[/quote]
WE BEAT FUCKING JUVENTUS AWAY WITH ANTONIO NUNEZ IN THE TEAM YOU INSUFFERABLE CLOWN.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37397.msg998724#msg998724 date=1259176541]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37397.msg998315#msg998315 date=1259135522]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg998310#msg998310 date=1259133357]
He's got his years mixed up. this is 2004 again. Just before the last fool got the sack after doing a piss poor job.
[/quote]
In 2004 we sacked a good man that improved the football club, and in 2009 we'd be doing the same. You'll be doing the same as well, i.e. shitting all over someone you cheered for, denigrating their achievements, revising the history, and generally having a fairly vile attitude. Both gave the supporters some really magical moments, and perhaps both will end up falling short of what you really wanted, but it's not some farcical binary where if they don't deliver the title they didn't do any good.
All this anger for us not making it out of the group stages after automatically qualifying, look I get it, but Houllier's firing was after a disappointment of missing the CL, scraping the CL and getting KOd from the Europa league. That gap in expectations demonstrates improvements made.
Both have done a good job for the club, and if neither delivers what everyone craves, it isn't because they are a fool, or that their stint as manager can be described as a "piss poor job".
[/quote]
Excellent post, mate.
[/quote]
Everyone who does not agree with Doc/Glock are banging their heads against really thick planks. They will refuse to listen as their minds are closed. No discussions needed. End of.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37397.msg998315#msg998315 date=1259135522]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg998310#msg998310 date=1259133357]
He's got his years mixed up. this is 2004 again. Just before the last fool got the sack after doing a piss poor job.
[/quote]
In 2004 we sacked a good man that improved the football club, and in 2009 we'd be doing the same. You'll be doing the same as well, i.e. shitting all over someone you cheered for, denigrating their achievements, revising the history, and generally having a fairly vile attitude. Both gave the supporters some really magical moments, and perhaps both will end up falling short of what you really wanted, but it's not some farcical binary where if they don't deliver the title they didn't do any good.
All this anger for us not making it out of the group stages after automatically qualifying, look I get it, but Houllier's firing was after a disappointment of missing the CL, scraping the CL and getting KOd from the Europa league. That gap in expectations demonstrates improvements made.
Both have done a good job for the club, and if neither delivers what everyone craves, it isn't because they are a fool, or that their stint as manager can be described as a "piss poor job".
[/quote]
Excellent post, mate.
[/quote]
Everyone who does not agree with Doc/Glock are banging their heads against really thick planks. They will refuse to listen as their minds are closed. No discussions needed. End of.
Why are you arguing that our best achievement of the last many years is less significant? Why on earth would a Liverpool supporter want to do that?
Our triumph in that competition is heightened by the fact that we weren't a very good team. We didn't require any more luck, we got every drop of ability out of players like Nunez, Biscan, Traore etc. It was a phenomenal cup run, and one of the happiest memories of my football supporting life.
You can be completely disillusioned now, that's fine. I thought this season wasn't going to go well, but I didn't think it would go this badly. You can think Rafa isn't the right man for the job, and that wouldn't put you in the minority you seem to think it does (you'd know that if you had spent more time reading the site and less time squabbling over pedantic details and insulting people) but don't push the disillusionment back through time. It's my strongest fondest memory as a liverpool supporter, and it was a terrific achievement. Supporters of other teams try to downplay it out of their bitterness, why would you do the same?
Our triumph in that competition is heightened by the fact that we weren't a very good team. We didn't require any more luck, we got every drop of ability out of players like Nunez, Biscan, Traore etc. It was a phenomenal cup run, and one of the happiest memories of my football supporting life.
You can be completely disillusioned now, that's fine. I thought this season wasn't going to go well, but I didn't think it would go this badly. You can think Rafa isn't the right man for the job, and that wouldn't put you in the minority you seem to think it does (you'd know that if you had spent more time reading the site and less time squabbling over pedantic details and insulting people) but don't push the disillusionment back through time. It's my strongest fondest memory as a liverpool supporter, and it was a terrific achievement. Supporters of other teams try to downplay it out of their bitterness, why would you do the same?
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