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Can we find the Lavia?

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It isn't just about numbers though is it? We lack any kind of physical dominance in centre mid. Pressing is one part of it, and the two we've signed will be much more effective than what we have, but we need the potential to physically dominate in central midfield and none of our players can currently do that. Henderson used to be able to do it to an extent. And Fabinho was better at it than he was last season.

No granted which is why I said if we had Fab Hendo and Thiago out and 3 better in quality, no one would argue.

Plus I don't see lack of physicality in stature as a hugely negative aspect....experience of Fab Hendo and Thiago could negate some of that & they aren't exactly the weakest of midfielders you'll ever see. Szobo is a big boy too and think he'll do just fine.

Chelsea won the CL with Kante Kovacic and Jorginho not because they had physical attributes but because they complimented each other very well and played to Tuchel's instructions with spirit & quality.

But at the same time I get they'll always be something wrong from having a perfect squad, if it's not too old, it's too young, if it's not too inexperienced, it's too experienced, not physical enough, not pacey enough etc
 
Harsh on Milner I know, but realistically he was only a bit part player, and he's the only ones minutes who need replacing, and we've done that in abundance.
 
Well as someone pointed out in another thread if no other midfielders come in that still leaves us with 9 midfield options for 3 places and that's with the exception of Morton who can take most of Milner's league/FA cup minutes.

That's still more than ok for numbers, if we had Valverde Modric and Tchuaomeni instead of Fab Hendo and Thiago I really don't think anyone
would be worried.

Errrrr... yeah. But we don't.

The below is a comparison of first team midfielders relative to last year (a year in which a 37-year-old James Milner was called upon 43 times).

[xtable=skin1|264x190]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Last year{/td}
{td=123x@}This year{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Bajcetic{/td}
{td=123x@}Bajcetic{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Fabinho{/td}
{td=123x@}Fabinho{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Thiago{/td}
{td=123x@}Thiago{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Henderson{/td}
{td=123x@}Henderson{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Jones{/td}
{td=123x@}Jones{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Elliot{/td}
{td=123x@}Elliot{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Milner{/td}
{td=123x@}Mac Allister{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Keita{/td}
{td=123x@}Szoboszlai{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Oxlade Chamberlain{/td}
{td=123x@}Morton{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
Assuming we fail to buy another defensive midfielder:
  • If last year's Fabinho turns up this year, we're fucked.
  • If Fabinho should rediscover his form and then get injured, we're fucked.
  • If Morton plays this season as often as Milner did last season, we're fucked.
The days of our defence being self-sufficient are long behind us - it needs protecting, and Fabs aside, none of the current crop are capable of doing that. Another defensive midfielder should be top priority.
 
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Hard to think how we'll replace the immense minutes Milner, Keita and Ox covered last season just by signing two players infinitely better than them with impeccable injury records, all whilst having less first team squad pressure on account of playing Europa League, it really is a mystery.

We may have the numbers but there are significant question marks around Hendo, Fabinho, Thiago, and Elliott on whether they can deliver in a Klopp midfield to a high level in the next season.

I agree that we have found high quality replacements for Ox, Milner, Keita minutes but you are also assuming that everyone else remains the same. We are not competing against last season's PL squads, we are competing against next seasons and the season after. And Hendo, Fabinho, and Thiago's fitness might be even poorer next season. If we buy one more midfielder this season, there is a cumulative effect not just for next season but the season after that.

Even if we buy a central midfielder this summer, we might have to buy another next season to make up depending on Hendo, Fabiinho regression. We also have to start looking at central defense and think about the replacements and at some point think about Robertson also. This is not even acknowledging the Salah sized hole which is going to start appearing on the right hand side.

We are in this situation because rather than doing the bare minimum to refresh the squad, we did 20-30% lower. In a single transfer window, that might not mean much, but over a number of years they catch up and blow up like we did last season. And most likely by early December, Klopp will be selecting midfielders based on who is available and not based on tactics.

If we don't buy another midfielder, we are repeating the same pattern but without a superhuman Salah, VVD, and Allison to bail us out as they get progressively worse due to age. Also, more than the numbers, it is also the type of midfielder we are missing - one who can provide physical dominance. The presence of such a midfielder can actually prolong Hendo and Fabinho's career at LFC and mask their weakness.
 
We had too many injured midfielders. This caused us to have to play our older midfielders too much. We played them. They looked like shit, especially at DM.

Now they won't have to play as much.

Except the ones that really looked like shit.

Curtis jones will play less because McAllister improves on him. Harvey plays less because szobo improves on him. They have upside though. Curtis played very well at the end of the season. Harvey played ok at the beginning.

Fabinho plays...

That's the most glaring thing we needed to fix!
 
So it's not a numbers issue then is it? Which is the clubs stance if reports are to be believed.....unless someone departs no one else comes in for that position. The vacancies are taken up.

You keep bringing up Milner featuring heavily with "43 games" as if we have this massive hole to fill .... he started like 10 times and 3 of them came at RB.

Otherwise it's a lot of ifs which anyone can bring up so pointless indulging into that. How often was Fab injured last season?

If we sign Lavia and both Fab and Lavia are injured, we're fucked. Like I say they'll always be something people come up with to feel disgruntled.
 
No granted which is why I said if we had Fab Hendo and Thiago out and 3 better in quality, no one would argue.

Plus I don't see lack of physicality in stature as a hugely negative aspect....experience of Fab Hendo and Thiago could negate some of that & they aren't exactly the weakest of midfielders you'll ever see. Szobo is a big boy too and think he'll do just fine.

Chelsea won the CL with Kante Kovacic and Jorginho not because they had physical attributes but because they complimented each other very well and played to Tuchel's instructions with spirit & quality.

But at the same time I get they'll always be something wrong from having a perfect squad, if it's not too old, it's too young, if it's not too inexperienced, it's too experienced, not physical enough, not pacey enough etc

The CL winning season Kante not having physical attributes? That season's Kante probably covered more ground than the current version of Hendo, Fabinho, and Thiago combined. We have no one even approaching the level of CL winning season Kante.
 
The numbers issue is we need to sell Thiago or Henderson and bring in a midfielder more useful than them.

If one of them is even remotely open to it, it would be stupid not to do it.

We need to improve that position. We are going to have to replace that position anyway. If we do it now we can buy a younger player. If we do it later we will spend more money.
 
The CL winning season Kante not having physical attributes? That season's Kante probably covered more ground than the current version of Hendo, Fabinho, and Thiago combined. We have no one even approaching the level of CL winning season Kante.

You don't cover more ground by being physically superior though?

He had good pace for a DM and had the fitness to run non-stop for about 10 hours so if you want to talk about having the engine/stamina/fitness etc, I think we've done just that bringing in the 2 lads we have.
 
As the lads said, next year we'll need to replace an aging Salah and repair an aging defense - and perhaps a disillusioned keeper. And replace Fabinho and Hendo. That leaves us with a LOT to fix. And other sides are strengthening. They aren't doing the bare minimum like we are.

If this is it, it's back slappingly underwhelming. They can' claim this is enough. It just isn't. We need Fabs and Hendo to be bench options. They are done as starters.

The Athletic says this is it. No more midfield signings.

" Klopp wanted to sign two multi-functional midfielders capable of providing more energy and creativity to refresh that department following the exits of James Milner, Naby Keita and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain as free agents. That’s been achieved at a combined cost of around £95million before the start of pre-season, which gets under way with the first wave of returnees to Kirkby on Saturday. No sagas, no fuss; just two release clauses triggered.
Nice’s Khephren Thuram is no longer viewed as a target with Liverpool having ultimately decided that Szoboszlai was the better option given his greater versatility, experience and skill set.

Liverpool could yet move for a young centre-back if the right option becomes available, but they won’t pursue a third midfielder unless one of the current crop leaves.
If you include Trent Alexander-Arnold, who finished last season in a hybrid role, Klopp currently has nine senior midfield options with Mac Allister, Szoboszlai, Jordan Henderson, Fabinho, Thiago, Stefan Bajcetic, Curtis Jones and Harvey Elliott.

It remains to be seen if that situation changes. Thiago has attracted serious interest from Saudi Arabia and has already turned down one lucrative offer. However, he currently intends to stay put for the final year of his contract.

Henderson has also been linked with a move to Saudi following the appointment of Gerrard at Al Ettifaq, but there’s been no approach so far and Liverpool do not expect to lose their long-serving skipper.

Since wrapping up the signing of Szoboszlai, there has been growing speculation had Liverpool turned their attention to Southampton’s Romeo Lavia. He is admired but as things stand they are not pursuing the Belgian defensive midfielder. They do not believe they have a gap to fill currently and they also feel that an asking price of £50million is far too high for a teenager who has only made 17 more senior appearances in his career than Bajcetic.

Despite all the recent noise around Thuram, it is worth noting that Jones and Elliott have been two of the standout performers at the Under-21 European Championship as they prepare for England’s semi-final with Israel today (Wednesday).

Klopp has been delighted to see them showcase their talent on the international stage and expects them both to kick on again next season.

https://theathletic.com/4665432/202...ansfer-inside-deal/?source=emp_shared_article
 
The Athletic says this is it. No more midfield signings.
Athletic are full of dog shit anyway, where ever that little snidy cunt James Pearce is, dog shit follows.

They said we hadn't made contact with AlexiMac's people despite announcing the deal a day later.

They probably don't understand there's still over 7 weeks of the window to go and that it's possible we could suffer injuries between now and then to force our hand.
 
Can we find the Lavia??

Well the thing is, who can't find the lavia? It's so obvious it's sitting right there in plain sight. Everyone knows where it is, what it looks like.. It's pretty much the first thing most see when they close their eyes. And clearly the most accessible too.

It's the most obvious signing in the world.

And yet when push comes to shove, the lavia always enjoys a brief moment of attention before being brushed aside. It seems like no one really wants the lavia that badly. Indeed, few seem to know what purpose it truly serves.

It may yet be another week of foreplay but no action for dear Lavia.

Anticlimatic.
 
Errrrr... yeah. But we don't.

The below is a comparison of first team midfielders relative to last year (a year in which a 37-year-old James Milner was called upon 43 times).

[xtable=skin1|264x190]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Last year{/td}
{td=123x@}This year{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Bajcetic{/td}
{td=123x@}Morton{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Fabinho{/td}
{td=123x@}Fabinho{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Thiago{/td}
{td=123x@}Mac Allister{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Henderson{/td}
{td=123x@}Szoboszlai{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Jones{/td}
{td=123x@}Bajcetic{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Elliot{/td}
{td=123x@}Elliot{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Milner{/td}
{td=123x@}Henderson{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Keita{/td}
{td=123x@}Thiago{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Oxlade Chamberlain{/td}
{td=123x@}Jones{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
Assuming we fail to buy another defensive midfielder:
  • If last year's Fabinho turns up this year, we're fucked.
  • If Fabinho should rediscover his form and then get injured, we're fucked.
  • If Morton plays this season as often as Milner did last season, we're fucked.
The days of our defence being self-sufficient are long behind us - it needs protecting, and Fabs aside, none of the current crop are capable of doing that. Another defensive midfielder should be top priority.

I think this table looks more fair in regards to last year if you look at roles in the team, not just the numbers. It doesn't change your point at all though, we're looking much better off both left and right but defensive midfield is still a huge liability with 2 kids (and maybe a dead legged Henderson) covering Fabinho - and fuck knows which version of him will turn up this season
 
If we sign a RB you could even add Trent to that table.

Although he hasn't yet proven to any real level that he can be a regular in a midfield 3, I think it's only a matter of time....it's clear he has all the attributes and is even better suited to playing RCM than RB.



----------------------Ali

????------Ibou---------Virg-------Robbo

------Trent------MacAllister----Szobo----

Salah--------------Nunez--------------Diaz

With the creativity and attacking outlet of Szobo Trent Salah Nunez Diaz, the RB we sign can afford to be very defensive minded & I have a feeling Klopp will try and use MacAllister the same way he did Gini.
 
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Errrrr... yeah. But we don't.

The below is a comparison of first team midfielders relative to last year (a year in which a 37-year-old James Milner was called upon 43 times).

[xtable=skin1|264x190]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Last year{/td}
{td=123x@}This year{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Bajcetic{/td}
{td=123x@}Bajcetic{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Fabinho{/td}
{td=123x@}Fabinho{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Thiago{/td}
{td=123x@}Thiago{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Henderson{/td}
{td=123x@}Henderson{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Jones{/td}
{td=123x@}Jones{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Elliot{/td}
{td=123x@}Elliot{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Milner{/td}
{td=123x@}Mac Allister{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Keita{/td}
{td=123x@}Szoboszlai{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Oxlade Chamberlain{/td}
{td=123x@}Morton{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
Assuming we fail to buy another defensive midfielder:
  • If last year's Fabinho turns up this year, we're fucked.
  • If Fabinho should rediscover his form and then get injured, we're fucked.
  • If Morton plays this season as often as Milner did last season, we're fucked.
The days of our defence being self-sufficient are long behind us - it needs protecting, and Fabs aside, none of the current crop are capable of doing that. Another defensive midfielder should be top priority.

Morton? Playing? The kid who didn't make it in the Championship? Who isn't even considered for the England u21s?

He might get garbage time against Leyton Orient in the cup.
 
Morton faded badly after a promising start last year on loan at Blackburn. He’s nowhere near ready to be cover in our midfield and is light years behind Lavia in his development or suitability to show up as a number 6 in our midfield.

It’s really not rocket science that we need a Lavia or a solid alternative.
 
Morton faded badly after a promising start last year on loan at Blackburn. He’s nowhere near ready to be cover in our midfield and is light years behind Lavia in his development or suitability to show up as a number 6 in our midfield.

It’s really not rocket science that we need a Lavia or a solid alternative.

Exactly, I am puzzled at why so many posters are casually name dropping Morton as an alternative. He has not proven himself as a regular starter at the Championship level. He needs to show a lot more for us to pander to his development.
 
If we sign a RB you could even add Trent to that table.

Although he hasn't yet proven to any real level that he can be a regular in a midfield 3, I think it's only a matter of time....it's clear he has all the attributes and is even better suited to playing RCM than RB.



----------------------Ali

????------Ibou---------Virg-------Robbo

------Trent------MacAllister----Szobo----

Salah--------------Nunez--------------Diaz

With the creativity and attacking outlet of Szobo Trent Salah Nunez Diaz, the RB we sign can afford to be very defensive minded & I have a feeling Klopp will try and use MacAllister the same way he did Gini.

Never in a million years should ali mac be considered for the 6
 
Never in a million years should ali mac be considered for the 6
I never really considered Gini as a #6 though because he couldn't really tackle or intercept a ball for shit......he was a good mop up player, picking up loose balls and recycling, high ball retention, wiggling out of tight spaces and having great energy to positionally be where you're not left with your CB's being exposed.

Can you not see AlexiMac at all being similiar to Gini?
 
Exactly, I am puzzled at why so many posters are casually name dropping Morton as an alternative. He has not proven himself as a regular starter at the Championship level. He needs to show a lot more for us to pander to his development.

i guess it’s because he looked surprisingly capable the last time he played for us then disappeared on loan which people may be incorrectly assuming went well or are confusing his loan progress with Bradley.
 
I'd like for someone on here to pull back the curtains, take a good look at Lavia, and probe the question why he's a good fit for us at that price. There's got to be some kind of knub to latch onto to make joy from his signing.
 
I'd like for someone on here to pull back the curtains, take a good look at Lavia, and probe the question why he's a good fit for us at that price. There's got to be some kind of knub to latch onto to make joy from his signing.
Sorry I cannot be the 1 to do that.

If Lavia were playing in my back garden, I'd leave the curtains closed 😀
 
I never really considered Gini as a #6 though because he couldn't really tackle or intercept a ball for shit......he was a good mop up player, picking up loose balls and recycling, high ball retention, wiggling out of tight spaces and having great energy to positionally be where you're not left with your CB's being exposed.

Can you not see AlexiMac at all being similiar to Gini?

I can to that deacription, but Gini had a 6 next to him to enable that style of play. If its Trent szobo and Mac, then there's no chance it'd work..for me at least.
 
I can to that deacription, but Gini had a 6 next to him to enable that style of play. If its Trent szobo and Mac, then there's no chance it'd work..for me at least.

Teams wouldn't be able to get the ball off us 🥷
 
Errrrr... yeah. But we don't.

The below is a comparison of first team midfielders relative to last year (a year in which a 37-year-old James Milner was called upon 43 times).

[xtable=skin1|264x190]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Last year{/td}
{td=123x@}This year{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Bajcetic{/td}
{td=123x@}Bajcetic{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Fabinho{/td}
{td=123x@}Fabinho{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Thiago{/td}
{td=123x@}Thiago{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Henderson{/td}
{td=123x@}Henderson{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Jones{/td}
{td=123x@}Jones{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Elliot{/td}
{td=123x@}Elliot{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Milner{/td}
{td=123x@}Mac Allister{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Keita{/td}
{td=123x@}Szoboszlai{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=127x@}Oxlade Chamberlain{/td}
{td=123x@}TRENT{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]

There's an argument that we have four strong starters for 3 or 4 spots
Bajcetic is back
Trent is playing in the middle
MacAlistair improves us
Szboszlai improves us


With Jones, in the mix.

Not good enough sadly is Henderson, Fabs, Elliot, Thiago - so we are carrying four, 3 of which bring great experience. And maybe maybe Fabs will find his feet and Elliot will find his way. Hendo and Thiago - bring great wisdom but would be off the pace.
 
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