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Can England win the World Cup?

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[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35711.msg940490#msg940490 date=1252483092]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=35711.msg940215#msg940215 date=1252427191]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35711.msg940213#msg940213 date=1252426518]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=35711.msg940151#msg940151 date=1252417887]
You dont win the WC without a very good goalkeeper.
England dont have a good a goalkeeper.
Brazil or Argentina if they qualify
[/quote]

Hahaha! England don't have a top class keeper but neither do either of the teams you've mentioned. Nice contradiction.

Oh and Taferel was mentioned by someone else.


[/quote]
Julio Cesar is quite good. Taffarel was very good in that World Cup.
England could have won the WC in '90 and 2002 with a good keeper. I think it could be the same this year.
[/quote]

Cos that Shilton bloke was rubbish in 1990, apart from being widely acknowledged as one of the great all time keepers by his fellow pros. Julio Cesar is "quite good" which means that he's not "very good" and therefore by your own definition means his team cannot win the World Cup.

Please stop Lech you really are making yourself look as foolish as an England fan who thinks they'll win the World Cup winning every game 3-0.


[/quote]
Shilton was rubbish in 1990. Any decent keeper wouldnt have conceded that german freekick.
Brazil are maybe the exception to the rule, with so many talent on the pitch they can afford a keeper a la Taffarel
I remain convinced you need avery good keeper to win the WC and for me its the main reason England failed in major tournaments in the last 20 years.
I would have put England among my favorites but with such crap keepers, I cant.
Shilton in 90, Seaman in 2002, James 2004, Robinson and Carson cost you the qualification in 08
With Capello, you have the best manager around to win this WC, but Im sure he must be fuming, thinking James or Green could ruin his work and 10 very talented players on the pitch.
 
Im not convinced by the midfield or goalkeeper but should Gerrard and Rooney have good tournaments then they could well go on and win it.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35711.msg940293#msg940293 date=1252436747]
england

rooney - one of the best forwards in the world
gerrard - one of the best forwards in the world
a cole - one of the (if not THE) best left backs in the world
g johnson - one of the best right backs in the world
lampard - one of the best central midfielders in the world (c'mon he is)
rio - one of the best center backs in the world
terry - one of the best center backs in the world

england's problem isn't personnel, it's application and desire.
[/quote]

Are they really World Class? Or is this any cause of the English Hyping things up beyond belief?

Would you put any of the attacking players at the same level as messi, kaka or Ronaldo? Maybe one?

As for the defence is it just hype, all of those defensive player have lots of defensive errors esp terry and rio as they get older. They are good defenders but I think it is premier league rose tinted glasses to say they are the best in the world or world class.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35711.msg940508#msg940508 date=1252484640]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35711.msg940486#msg940486 date=1252482696]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35711.msg940402#msg940402 date=1252448904]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35711.msg940081#msg940081 date=1252410644]
Semi's of Euro 96 too.

It's not great but it's something.
[/quote]

I've said this before, I'll say it again.

Euro 96 was a shit tournament packed full of shit teams.

It's only the English in some depserate attempt at creating something out of nothing that think it was anything remotely memorable.
[/quote]

Did England sleep with your wife once?
[/quote]

Did a St. George's Cross throw up over you?

I bet you cried when Paula Radcliffe collapsed at the Olympics.
[/quote]

Twas a joke.

Oh and for the record, I didn't cry when Radcliffe collapsed at the Olympics. I did smile at Murray's demise yesterday, that probably makes me a BNP member.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35711.msg940507#msg940507 date=1252484553]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35711.msg940502#msg940502 date=1252483734]
with the personnel england have plus the savvy of their manager coupled with the competitiveness of their league any less than a semi final place is underacievement. that's not an arrogant view imho. take italy who actually WON the world cup their players aren't as good as the english players put it this way how many of the italians would get in the england first 11? the keeper, pirlo and then...? before anyone mentions totti england have lamprd AND gerrard.
[/quote]

Yup, and they've had these players togethor for 10 years and won fuck all. Actually haven't even come close to winning anything. Before that, they had great players too, and zip.

Take Rosco's post for example; Terry and Ferdinand - yup, great defenders. But they're past their best and have been part of England's back 4 for years and done zero. Cole? Past his best? The midfield? Lampard, Barry and Gerrard may be wonderful footballers - but England get nothing out of them - they look disjointed, out of position, lacking in cohesion, and get passed off the park byt slightly better than average opposition. Strikers? Well, let's just say that Rooney and Heskey aren't Vill and Torres.

You've always ALWAYS had good players, and dspite insistence to the contrary - have near;y always had good managers too. You'll still fail when it comes to the crunch though. You can't even beat Portugal.
[/quote]

All of that is true. Can't disagree with any of it.

England has always been a team of individuals who seem hellbent on not playing as a team. The Euro 96 side actually played like a team despite actually not having many if any, "world class" individuals. And Shearer was not world class.

Its all about the team dynamic and we struggle with that tournament in, tournamant out.

Someone said the semis is the minimum we should expect? Why? We are ranked about 10 in the world so why should we "expect" the semis. This is part of the issue for England. They are told they are better than they are by an expectant press and fans and then when they don't achieve the unrealistic goal set for them, they are slaughtered by the same.

I hate the press when it comes to England games, its boring, jingoistic crap that frankly shames us. But they will never, ever change tack.
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=35711.msg940603#msg940603 date=1252494590]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35711.msg940490#msg940490 date=1252483092]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=35711.msg940215#msg940215 date=1252427191]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35711.msg940213#msg940213 date=1252426518]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=35711.msg940151#msg940151 date=1252417887]
You dont win the WC without a very good goalkeeper.
England dont have a good a goalkeeper.
Brazil or Argentina if they qualify
[/quote]

Hahaha! England don't have a top class keeper but neither do either of the teams you've mentioned. Nice contradiction.

Oh and Taferel was mentioned by someone else.


[/quote]
Julio Cesar is quite good. Taffarel was very good in that World Cup.
England could have won the WC in '90 and 2002 with a good keeper. I think it could be the same this year.
[/quote]

Cos that Shilton bloke was rubbish in 1990, apart from being widely acknowledged as one of the great all time keepers by his fellow pros. Julio Cesar is "quite good" which means that he's not "very good" and therefore by your own definition means his team cannot win the World Cup.

Please stop Lech you really are making yourself look as foolish as an England fan who thinks they'll win the World Cup winning every game 3-0.


[/quote]
Shilton was rubbish in 1990. Any decent keeper wouldnt have conceded that german freekick.
Brazil are maybe the exception to the rule, with so many talent on the pitch they can afford a keeper a la Taffarel
I remain convinced you need avery good keeper to win the WC and for me its the main reason England failed in major tournaments in the last 20 years.
I would have put England among my favorites but with such crap keepers, I cant.
Shilton in 90, Seaman in 2002, James 2004, Robinson and Carson cost you the qualification in 08
With Capello, you have the best manager around to win this WC, but Im sure he must be fuming, thinking James or Green could ruin his work and 10 very talented players on the pitch.
[/quote]

What? The free kick with the freakish deflection off of Paul Parker? You must be kidding!

And now you've changed tack with the goalie thing re: Brazil. So let me get this straight, in order to win the World Cup you need a great keeper, unless you are Brazil or Argentina? I'm still not sure I agree. But time will tell.

I'd like a stronger keeper myself personally but we are where we are. I'd take James over all the other candidates at present.
 
70 - Mexicans fault for food poisoning and stitching up Moore
82 - refs fault for silly red to Wilkins
86 - maradonas fault for cheating (ignore the other goal)
90 - German rolling about after the Gazza challenge left Gazza unfit to take a penalty
98 - simeones fault for that altercation
02 - ronaldinho "fluke"
06 - ronaldos fault for getting Rooney sent off (nothing to do with the stamp by Rooney)

So who will the English media find to blame for failure this time round?
 
England - Brilliant on paper, mediocre on grass.

I can't see them winning it even though a lot of other countries are average at the moment.

I don't think this England team is as good as '90, '96 or '98. They just get paid 10 times more and are on the telly all the time.
 
[quote author=Roger REDerer link=topic=35711.msg940660#msg940660 date=1252503504]
If England win a World Cup, I'll go to work completely naked.

That's how confident I am.
[/quote]

Let's hope to God we don't win it then 😉
 
remember how we celebrated when we won number 5 imagine that times the entire country. it would be that big, who gives a shit about the rugby world cup or the ashes?
 
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=35711.msg940704#msg940704 date=1252511881]
I would watch it, I would probably enjoy it.


I would rather see us win the League
[/quote]

I would rather see us win the league, CL and fa cup rather than england win the world cup. would I perfer liverpool win the carlin cup or england win the world cup...hmmm...that's a tough one.
 
I'd trade either of the national cups for a World Cup win.

The national team still means a lot to me even if it is full of bellends.
 
Watching the national anthem just reminded me of everyone singing their heart out to it in the last world cup, then looks of shock, bemusement, and silence when the second verse begun.

Comical.
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35711.msg940630#msg940630 date=1252498764]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35711.msg940507#msg940507 date=1252484553]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35711.msg940502#msg940502 date=1252483734]
with the personnel england have plus the savvy of their manager coupled with the competitiveness of their league any less than a semi final place is underacievement. that's not an arrogant view imho. take italy who actually WON the world cup their players aren't as good as the english players put it this way how many of the italians would get in the england first 11? the keeper, pirlo and then...? before anyone mentions totti england have lamprd AND gerrard.
[/quote]

Yup, and they've had these players togethor for 10 years and won fuck all. Actually haven't even come close to winning anything. Before that, they had great players too, and zip.

Take Rosco's post for example; Terry and Ferdinand - yup, great defenders. But they're past their best and have been part of England's back 4 for years and done zero. Cole? Past his best? The midfield? Lampard, Barry and Gerrard may be wonderful footballers - but England get nothing out of them - they look disjointed, out of position, lacking in cohesion, and get passed off the park byt slightly better than average opposition. Strikers? Well, let's just say that Rooney and Heskey aren't Vill and Torres.

You've always ALWAYS had good players, and dspite insistence to the contrary - have near;y always had good managers too. You'll still fail when it comes to the crunch though. You can't even beat Portugal.
[/quote]

All of that is true. Can't disagree with any of it.

England has always been a team of individuals who seem hellbent on not playing as a team. The Euro 96 side actually played like a team despite actually not having many if any, "world class" individuals. And Shearer was not world class.

Its all about the team dynamic and we struggle with that tournament in, tournamant out.

Someone said the semis is the minimum we should expect? Why? We are ranked about 10 in the world so why should we "expect" the semis. This is part of the issue for England. They are told they are better than they are by an expectant press and fans and then when they don't achieve the unrealistic goal set for them, they are slaughtered by the same.

I hate the press when it comes to England games, its boring, jingoistic crap that frankly shames us. But they will never, ever change tack.
[/quote]Dont fuckin empower the bitter ballacks.
If football as a sport lasts for another THOUSAND years, our country will still have won at least one more international tournament than his ever will, so let him boo hoo all he fucking likes, Christ his country best player doesnt want to play for them and their best ever manager is English.
Im hoping Ryans 'magic' from this summers ashes thread spills over into this one.
 
[quote author=Stu link=topic=35711.msg940844#msg940844 date=1252529625]
Isn't Ryan from NI?
[/quote]

Yes.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35711.msg940838#msg940838 date=1252528947]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35711.msg940630#msg940630 date=1252498764]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35711.msg940507#msg940507 date=1252484553]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35711.msg940502#msg940502 date=1252483734]
with the personnel england have plus the savvy of their manager coupled with the competitiveness of their league any less than a semi final place is underacievement. that's not an arrogant view imho. take italy who actually WON the world cup their players aren't as good as the english players put it this way how many of the italians would get in the england first 11? the keeper, pirlo and then...? before anyone mentions totti england have lamprd AND gerrard.
[/quote]

Yup, and they've had these players togethor for 10 years and won fuck all. Actually haven't even come close to winning anything. Before that, they had great players too, and zip.

Take Rosco's post for example; Terry and Ferdinand - yup, great defenders. But they're past their best and have been part of England's back 4 for years and done zero. Cole? Past his best? The midfield? Lampard, Barry and Gerrard may be wonderful footballers - but England get nothing out of them - they look disjointed, out of position, lacking in cohesion, and get passed off the park byt slightly better than average opposition. Strikers? Well, let's just say that Rooney and Heskey aren't Vill and Torres.

You've always ALWAYS had good players, and dspite insistence to the contrary - have near;y always had good managers too. You'll still fail when it comes to the crunch though. You can't even beat Portugal.
[/quote]

All of that is true. Can't disagree with any of it.

England has always been a team of individuals who seem hellbent on not playing as a team. The Euro 96 side actually played like a team despite actually not having many if any, "world class" individuals. And Shearer was not world class.

Its all about the team dynamic and we struggle with that tournament in, tournamant out.

Someone said the semis is the minimum we should expect? Why? We are ranked about 10 in the world so why should we "expect" the semis. This is part of the issue for England. They are told they are better than they are by an expectant press and fans and then when they don't achieve the unrealistic goal set for them, they are slaughtered by the same.

I hate the press when it comes to England games, its boring, jingoistic crap that frankly shames us. But they will never, ever change tack.
[/quote]Dont fuckin empower the bitter ballacks.
If football as a sport lasts for another THOUSAND years, our country will still have won at least one more international tournament than his ever will, so let him boo hoo all he fucking likes, Christ his country best player doesnt want to play for them and their best ever manager is English.
Im hoping Ryans 'magic' from this summers ashes thread spills over into this one.
[/quote]

Yeah fair enough but the standards of players at ye'r disposal over the years as compared to ours is huge.
 
I've never heard you label Ferdinand and Terry as "past their best" whenever they play for their clubs.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=35711.msg940856#msg940856 date=1252529920]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35711.msg940838#msg940838 date=1252528947]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35711.msg940630#msg940630 date=1252498764]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35711.msg940507#msg940507 date=1252484553]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35711.msg940502#msg940502 date=1252483734]
with the personnel england have plus the savvy of their manager coupled with the competitiveness of their league any less than a semi final place is underacievement. that's not an arrogant view imho. take italy who actually WON the world cup their players aren't as good as the english players put it this way how many of the italians would get in the england first 11? the keeper, pirlo and then...? before anyone mentions totti england have lamprd AND gerrard.
[/quote]

Yup, and they've had these players togethor for 10 years and won fuck all. Actually haven't even come close to winning anything. Before that, they had great players too, and zip.

Take Rosco's post for example; Terry and Ferdinand - yup, great defenders. But they're past their best and have been part of England's back 4 for years and done zero. Cole? Past his best? The midfield? Lampard, Barry and Gerrard may be wonderful footballers - but England get nothing out of them - they look disjointed, out of position, lacking in cohesion, and get passed off the park byt slightly better than average opposition. Strikers? Well, let's just say that Rooney and Heskey aren't Vill and Torres.

You've always ALWAYS had good players, and dspite insistence to the contrary - have near;y always had good managers too. You'll still fail when it comes to the crunch though. You can't even beat Portugal.
[/quote]

All of that is true. Can't disagree with any of it.

England has always been a team of individuals who seem hellbent on not playing as a team. The Euro 96 side actually played like a team despite actually not having many if any, "world class" individuals. And Shearer was not world class.

Its all about the team dynamic and we struggle with that tournament in, tournamant out.

Someone said the semis is the minimum we should expect? Why? We are ranked about 10 in the world so why should we "expect" the semis. This is part of the issue for England. They are told they are better than they are by an expectant press and fans and then when they don't achieve the unrealistic goal set for them, they are slaughtered by the same.

I hate the press when it comes to England games, its boring, jingoistic crap that frankly shames us. But they will never, ever change tack.
[/quote]Dont fuckin empower the bitter ballacks.
If football as a sport lasts for another THOUSAND years, our country will still have won at least one more international tournament than his ever will, so let him boo hoo all he fucking likes, Christ his country best player doesnt want to play for them and their best ever manager is English.
Im hoping Ryans 'magic' from this summers ashes thread spills over into this one.
[/quote]

Yeah fair enough but the standards of players at ye'r disposal over the years as compared to ours is huge.
[/quote]Im not arguing AGAINST Ireland David. Id fucking love to see Ireland win the world cup. Im just giving yer man in the glass house there a lesson in stone throwing.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35711.msg940860#msg940860 date=1252530054]
Yeah fair enough but the standards of players at ye'r disposal over the years as compared to ours is huge.
[/quote]Im not arguing AGAINST Ireland David. Id fucking love to see Ireland win the world cup. Im just giving yer man in the glass house there a lesson in stone throwing.
[/quote]

I wouldn't. I like seeing them all fail... particularly as the commentators employed for these games always get so worked about and cheer the team on desperately. It's a lot of fun.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=35711.msg940863#msg940863 date=1252530194]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35711.msg940860#msg940860 date=1252530054]
Yeah fair enough but the standards of players at ye'r disposal over the years as compared to ours is huge.
[/quote]Im not arguing AGAINST Ireland David. Id fucking love to see Ireland win the world cup. Im just giving yer man in the glass house there a lesson in stone throwing.
[/quote]

I wouldn't. I like seeing them all fail... particularly as the commentators employed for these games always get so worked about and cheer the team on desperately. It's a lot of fun.


[/quote]I've a load of Irish pals. Id love them to win it for them. Im not bitter like some.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35711.msg940860#msg940860 date=1252530054]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=35711.msg940856#msg940856 date=1252529920]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35711.msg940838#msg940838 date=1252528947]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35711.msg940630#msg940630 date=1252498764]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35711.msg940507#msg940507 date=1252484553]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35711.msg940502#msg940502 date=1252483734]
with the personnel england have plus the savvy of their manager coupled with the competitiveness of their league any less than a semi final place is underacievement. that's not an arrogant view imho. take italy who actually WON the world cup their players aren't as good as the english players put it this way how many of the italians would get in the england first 11? the keeper, pirlo and then...? before anyone mentions totti england have lamprd AND gerrard.
[/quote]

Yup, and they've had these players togethor for 10 years and won fuck all. Actually haven't even come close to winning anything. Before that, they had great players too, and zip.

Take Rosco's post for example; Terry and Ferdinand - yup, great defenders. But they're past their best and have been part of England's back 4 for years and done zero. Cole? Past his best? The midfield? Lampard, Barry and Gerrard may be wonderful footballers - but England get nothing out of them - they look disjointed, out of position, lacking in cohesion, and get passed off the park byt slightly better than average opposition. Strikers? Well, let's just say that Rooney and Heskey aren't Vill and Torres.

You've always ALWAYS had good players, and dspite insistence to the contrary - have near;y always had good managers too. You'll still fail when it comes to the crunch though. You can't even beat Portugal.
[/quote]

All of that is true. Can't disagree with any of it.

England has always been a team of individuals who seem hellbent on not playing as a team. The Euro 96 side actually played like a team despite actually not having many if any, "world class" individuals. And Shearer was not world class.

Its all about the team dynamic and we struggle with that tournament in, tournamant out.

Someone said the semis is the minimum we should expect? Why? We are ranked about 10 in the world so why should we "expect" the semis. This is part of the issue for England. They are told they are better than they are by an expectant press and fans and then when they don't achieve the unrealistic goal set for them, they are slaughtered by the same.

I hate the press when it comes to England games, its boring, jingoistic crap that frankly shames us. But they will never, ever change tack.
[/quote]Dont fuckin empower the bitter ballacks.
If football as a sport lasts for another THOUSAND years, our country will still have won at least one more international tournament than his ever will, so let him boo hoo all he fucking likes, Christ his country best player doesnt want to play for them and their best ever manager is English.
Im hoping Ryans 'magic' from this summers ashes thread spills over into this one.
[/quote]

Yeah fair enough but the standards of players at ye'r disposal over the years as compared to ours is huge.
[/quote]Im not arguing AGAINST Ireland David. Id fucking love to see Ireland win the world cup. Im just giving yer man in the glass house there a lesson in stone throwing.
[/quote]

No hassle in the castle.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=35711.msg940863#msg940863 date=1252530194]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35711.msg940860#msg940860 date=1252530054]
Yeah fair enough but the standards of players at ye'r disposal over the years as compared to ours is huge.
[/quote]Im not arguing AGAINST Ireland David. Id fucking love to see Ireland win the world cup. Im just giving yer man in the glass house there a lesson in stone throwing.
[/quote]

I wouldn't. I like seeing them all fail... particularly as the commentators employed for these games always get so worked about and cheer the team on desperately. It's a lot of fun.


[/quote]

" I like seeing them all fail".. "It's a lot of fun"...

Jesus Keni, and Oncy was just talking about people throwing stones.
 
the patriotic pundits are best, I remember ian st.john losing his mind when brazil were absolutely destroying them. c'mon saint, you're scotland this is brazil, what did you THINK was going to happen?
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=35711.msg940871#msg940871 date=1252530462]
" I like seeing them all fail".. "It's a lot of fun"...

Jesus Keni, and Oncy was just talking about people throwing stones.
[/quote]

Heh, well the super patriotic and passionate commentators do make it fun to see their energy and belief die a slow death as the game goes on. I watched a lot of the Scotland v Holland game tonight and it quite entertaining.

And besides, you can't say the other home nations didn't snigger when England missed out on Euro '08, can you?
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=35711.msg940885#msg940885 date=1252530879]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=35711.msg940871#msg940871 date=1252530462]
" I like seeing them all fail".. "It's a lot of fun"...

Jesus Keni, and Oncy was just talking about people throwing stones.
[/quote]

Heh, well the super patriotic and passionate commentators do make it fun to see their energy and belief die a slow death as the game goes on. I watched a lot of the Scotland v Holland game tonight and it quite entertaining.

And besides, you can't say the other home nations didn't snigger when England missed out on Euro '08, can you?

[/quote]Dont get me wrong Ken. I fucking LOOOOOVE it when the Sweats go out/dont make it! Seeing all those tartan clad ginger wig wearing kilted pissheads walking home in the rain with the ginger hair stuck to the sides of their windswept rosy cheeks swearing 'Thas a fuggin deesgrace tha by the way' and 'Brooon oot, aye he's ta go noo' lovely stuff.
 
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