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Can England win the World Cup?

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[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35711.msg940026#msg940026 date=1252405101]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35711.msg940020#msg940020 date=1252404236]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35711.msg940004#msg940004 date=1252403230]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35711.msg939999#msg939999 date=1252403020]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35711.msg939996#msg939996 date=1252402677]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35711.msg939991#msg939991 date=1252402447]
one big problem is the league is long and hard and doesn't leave a long time to prepare for the world cup group stage.
[/quote]

True. Other countries are fortunate that they don't have Leagues. Or players that play in England.
[/quote]

their leagues aren't as tough (well maybe spain) or gruelling. top english players like gerrard, rooney, lampard will be involved in every game and probably the later rounds of the CL.
[/quote]

Whereas the Spanish side that won the Euros containing Torres, Fabregas, Arbeloa and Alonso were all given a two month layoff prior to the tournament?

[/quote]

that's the european championship. what's the record of european teams winning the world cup (outside of europe)?
[/quote]

I don't know, or care.

I do know that England haven't come close to winning anything in over 40 years, and every 2 years this discussion pops up accompanied by misguided optimism, and then followed by excuses and scapegoating whenever their latest failure happens.

[/quote]

true, just pointing out some reasons that 'may' be the cause of such failure.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35711.msg939978#msg939978 date=1252400713]
No.

In reply to rosco - they always have quality, all over the park. Yet they never go beyond the quarter finals. Don't be fooled by their comfortable path through the qualifiers, they nearly always progress through these things with minimal fuss, and their group is a fuckin easy one.

Twice in recent memory they haven't been capable of beating a very average portugese side, which is saying a lot.

England are in the second tier of international sides around the world.
[/quote]

I didn't think Portugal were average. Individually (and Ronaldo aside) perhaps, but collectively they were a great footballing side who played us off the park.

For all of England's individuality though, defensively they're too often found day dreaming and never really function well as a unit, they also have too many big players who are far too inconsistent on the International stage; Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard and even Gerrard, though at least Gerrard has had the excuse of being played everywehere but his favoured position.

Things look promising under Capello, but by and large they still have that horrible trait of being a directionless, styleless team with little in the way of cohesion. I agree with Cruyf though, the longer we go the stronger we get.

Penalities will probably do us, as per.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35711.msg939978#msg939978 date=1252400713]
No.

In reply to rosco - they always have quality, all over the park. Yet they never go beyond the quarter finals. Don't be fooled by their comfortable path through the qualifiers, they nearly always progress through these things with minimal fuss, and their group is a fuckin easy one.

Twice in recent memory they haven't been capable of beating a very average portugese side, which is saying a lot.

England are in the second tier of international sides around the world.
[/quote]

My post was a of preview of the hype that we'll be subjected to in the near future.

I know they'll go out at the Quarter finals as usual.
 
The England squad is probably the third or fourth strongest in the world on paper. The big weaknesses, though, are at the two ends of the pitch - we have no outstanding goalkeepers, and (Rooney aside) no outstanding strikers. Give us Reina and Torres/Villa, and I think England could win the WC, but as goals scored and conceded are ultimately what separates teams, and as we do not have the habit of winning trophies with relatively weak squads (cf Germany, Italy), I would expect someone else to actually win it.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35711.msg940026#msg940026 date=1252405101]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35711.msg940020#msg940020 date=1252404236]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35711.msg940004#msg940004 date=1252403230]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35711.msg939999#msg939999 date=1252403020]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35711.msg939996#msg939996 date=1252402677]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35711.msg939991#msg939991 date=1252402447]
one big problem is the league is long and hard and doesn't leave a long time to prepare for the world cup group stage.
[/quote]

True. Other countries are fortunate that they don't have Leagues. Or players that play in England.
[/quote]

their leagues aren't as tough (well maybe spain) or gruelling. top english players like gerrard, rooney, lampard will be involved in every game and probably the later rounds of the CL.
[/quote]

Whereas the Spanish side that won the Euros containing Torres, Fabregas, Arbeloa and Alonso were all given a two month layoff prior to the tournament?

[/quote]

that's the european championship. what's the record of european teams winning the world cup (outside of europe)?
[/quote]

I don't know, or care.

I do know that England haven't come close to winning anything in over 40 years, and every 2 years this discussion pops up accompanied by misguided optimism, and then followed by excuses and scapegoating whenever their latest failure happens.

[/quote]

Really? Losing a semi final on penalties in Italia 90 isn't coming close? I think you have your green tinted glasses on here?
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=35711.msg940035#msg940035 date=1252405862]
Apparently RSA will be like England weather wise when the tournament is played? That cant be right, surely?!
[/quote]

There were alot of parkas being worn at the Confederations Cup matches this year.

And not just by Kaka.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=35711.msg940035#msg940035 date=1252405862]
Apparently RSA will be like England weather wise when the tournament is played? That cant be right, surely?!
[/quote]

I'd have thought it could actually - Southern hemisphere winter, and all that.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35711.msg939995#msg939995 date=1252402654]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=35711.msg939988#msg939988 date=1252402230]
One of the weaknesses many England managers have shown in the past has been a preference for reputations over form and fitness. Greenwood had a crocked Keegan as a passenger. Robson - farcically - had perma-crock Captain Marvel Bryan Robson as a passenger. Sven had Owen, Beckham and Rooney. Capello actually seems shrewd about this point, which is one thing that bodes well.
[/quote]

also they continually play the star players hoping they find their form. when shearer was out of form, 'oh, give him one more game he will come good', (nothing) 'oh, give him one more game he will come good', (nothing) ten games later 'YES! shearer is BACK!!'. farcial. play the people in form, if the star in question wants his place back he should rise to challenge, the bar shouldn't be lowered to accomadate the star who is going through a rough patch.
[/quote]

Agree in principle but I don't think Shearer was out of form so much as being asked to do a different job in the team, namely run interference for Owen as well as trying to score.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35711.msg940020#msg940020 date=1252404236]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35711.msg940004#msg940004 date=1252403230]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35711.msg939999#msg939999 date=1252403020]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35711.msg939996#msg939996 date=1252402677]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35711.msg939991#msg939991 date=1252402447]
one big problem is the league is long and hard and doesn't leave a long time to prepare for the world cup group stage.
[/quote]

True. Other countries are fortunate that they don't have Leagues. Or players that play in England.
[/quote]

their leagues aren't as tough (well maybe spain) or gruelling. top english players like gerrard, rooney, lampard will be involved in every game and probably the later rounds of the CL.
[/quote]

Whereas the Spanish side that won the Euros containing Torres, Fabregas, Arbeloa and Alonso were all given a two month layoff prior to the tournament?

[/quote]

that's the european championship. what's the record of european teams winning the world cup (outside of europe)?
[/quote]

None ever have.

Only Brazil have won outside their home continent.
 
Of Course they can, they won't though.

As many people have alluded too they don't have the inate self belief or mental strength. They also approach the WC with the we are going to win it blah blah blah, they should just go in keeping quiet and going about their business. All the bold predictions make them look nobs.
 
Surely if they think they will win it they have self belief??

I hope they dont, but theres a good chance they might.

Argentina, whoever is in charge, are over rated. They have some incredibly average players. As do Brazil, and Italy, and Holland and France...basically all the big guns!

The only squad the mathes Englands, imo, is Spains.
 
As usual England are still around 5 players short of having what it takes to win it.

I think they'll have a successful competition though and reach the QF.
 
You dont win the WC without a very good goalkeeper.
England dont have a good a goalkeeper.
Brazil or Argentina if they qualify
 
[quote author=nornirongooner link=topic=35711.msg940146#msg940146 date=1252415629]
Surely if they think they will win it they have self belief??

I hope they dont, but theres a good chance they might.

Argentina, whoever is in charge, are over rated. They have some incredibly average players. As do Brazil, and Italy, and Holland and France...basically all the big guns!

The only squad the mathes Englands, imo, is Spains.
[/quote]

brazil play like a team, argentina play like indivduals (although those individuals are brilliant).
 
[quote author=nornirongooner link=topic=35711.msg940146#msg940146 date=1252415629]
Surely if they think they will win it they have self belief??
[/quote]

I didn't say they think they will win it, I said they go approach it saying they will win it etc...Because they say it doesn't mean they believe it.
 
World Cups aren't as much fun these days. There always used to be at least one country whose players didn't even seem to know all of the rules. That was great.
 
Didn't some Middle-Eastern/African dictator once demand that the team qualify the WC or else there would be severe punishment to the players?
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35711.msg940196#msg940196 date=1252423968]
Didn't some Middle-Eastern/African dictator once demand that the team qualify the WC or else there would be severe punishment to the players?
[/quote]

Saddam's son (who was in charge of the Iraqi football team) used to beat the players when they lost and I think he threatened, and presumably carried out, some kind of punishment if they failed to qualify for the World Cup

There are probably similar examples from elsewhere though
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=35711.msg940151#msg940151 date=1252417887]
You dont win the WC without a very good goalkeeper.
England dont have a good a goalkeeper.
Brazil or Argentina if they qualify
[/quote]

I don't think Taffarel was anything special was he? And Barthez was always a bit ropey too
 
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=35711.msg940195#msg940195 date=1252423813]
World Cups aren't as much fun these days. There always used to be at least one country whose players didn't even seem to know all of the rules. That was great.
[/quote]Hands up if youre thinking about that Zaire'an who ran out the wall and punted the ball away as soon as the whistle went?
 
*puts hand up*

the best part was the look of astonishment on his face when he gets booked
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=35711.msg940204#msg940204 date=1252424752]
*puts hand up*

the best part was the look of astonishment on his face when he gets booked
[/quote]After Negrete's goal, Schumacher KILLING batiston, Cannigia getting sawed in two by the 'eager' cameroonians, borgettis header and Linaker turning his face inside out when Gazza got booked it has no parallels. Top 10 wc moments easy.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35711.msg940209#msg940209 date=1252425200]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=35711.msg940204#msg940204 date=1252424752]
*puts hand up*

the best part was the look of astonishment on his face when he gets booked
[/quote] Cannigia getting sawed in two by the 'eager' cameroonians,[/quote]

possibly my favorite ever world cup moment ;D
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=35711.msg940151#msg940151 date=1252417887]
You dont win the WC without a very good goalkeeper.
England dont have a good a goalkeeper.
Brazil or Argentina if they qualify
[/quote]

Hahaha! England don't have a top class keeper but neither do either of the teams you've mentioned. Nice contradiction.

Oh and Taferel was mentioned by someone else.
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35711.msg940213#msg940213 date=1252426518]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=35711.msg940151#msg940151 date=1252417887]
You dont win the WC without a very good goalkeeper.
England dont have a good a goalkeeper.
Brazil or Argentina if they qualify
[/quote]

Hahaha! England don't have a top class keeper but neither do either of the teams you've mentioned. Nice contradiction.

Oh and Taferel was mentioned by someone else.


[/quote]
Julio Cesar is quite good. Taffarel was very good in that World Cup.
England could have won the WC in '90 and 2002 with a good keeper. I think it could be the same this year.
 
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