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Big Andy

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[quote author=Dirty Sanchez link=topic=48595.msg1478997#msg1478997 date=1328660663]
I'm with Farky, tony, and Red Zepplin on this - It's like the rest of you lot were watching a different game.

Carroll did put more effort in to the game and his fitness is better than it has been a long time.

However, he still is not a good player. Almost any ball that is played in to him that requires technical footballing skill to control, gain a yard or two, and then pass or shoot is still absolutely beyond him. His positional sense is non-existent, and he generally is a lumbering distraction.

Farkmaster is so right about Carroll it's literally astonishing - FUCKING ASTONISHING - that anyone can feel otherwise.

Given the delusional sense that most have about him (which, given how long it took Lucas to gain respect is equally astonishing) I pray that he comes good. But he won't - and we will suffer for it.
[/quote]

What's the matter with the hate brigade that they can't give credit where it's due? That's the FUCKING ASTONISHING thing. Everyone at the match last night was more than happy with Carroll's performance, yet I come on here and the lad keeps getting panned. It's not wonderful yet , but there is a big difference in most of his game. It's not delusional it's fucking obvious.

regards
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=48595.msg1479002#msg1479002 date=1328661510]
[quote author=Dirty Sanchez link=topic=48595.msg1478997#msg1478997 date=1328660663]
I'm with Farky, tony, and Red Zepplin on this - It's like the rest of you lot were watching a different game.

Carroll did put more effort in to the game and his fitness is better than it has been a long time.

However, he still is not a good player. Almost any ball that is played in to him that requires technical footballing skill to control, gain a yard or two, and then pass or shoot is still absolutely beyond him. His positional sense is non-existent, and he generally is a lumbering distraction.

Farkmaster is so right about Carroll it's literally astonishing - FUCKING ASTONISHING - that anyone can feel otherwise.

Given the delusional sense that most have about him (which, given how long it took Lucas to gain respect is equally astonishing) I pray that he comes good. But he won't - and we will suffer for it.
[/quote]

What's the matter with the hate brigade that they can't give credit where it's due? That's the FUCKING ASTONISHING thing. Everyone at the match last night was more than happy with Carroll's performance, yet I come on here and the lad keeps getting panned. It's not wonderful yet , but there is a big difference in most of his game. It's not delusional it's fucking obvious.

regards
[/quote]

How sad it is that our standards have fallen so low that we laud the average performance of a £35m doofus.
I'm truly not a hater. I never hated Lucas for gawds sake. I simply believe that the longer we persist with Carroll the longer it will be for us to get where we need to be. Simples.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48595.msg1479009#msg1479009 date=1328663405]
Thats one of the shittest posts ive ever read. Post vomit.
'simples'
Indeed.
[/]

Ha - like you said Andy, haters gonna hate. He's an average target man and that's all.
 
i think he'll be decent for us eventually, he might even boosh in quite a few goals, but he is nowhere near that yet, he has reached the stage where he can get the ball to bounce off of him, thats it, he is only just getting to the level that i least expected from him
 
No one is disputing whether he has improved or not. This "hate brigade" thing is silly. Sorry I don't have the same opinion of his current level of play. I hope you are all right, I just don't see it.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=48595.msg1479002#msg1479002 date=1328661510]
[quote author=Dirty Sanchez link=topic=48595.msg1478997#msg1478997 date=1328660663]
I'm with Farky, tony, and Red Zepplin on this - It's like the rest of you lot were watching a different game.

Carroll did put more effort in to the game and his fitness is better than it has been a long time.

However, he still is not a good player. Almost any ball that is played in to him that requires technical footballing skill to control, gain a yard or two, and then pass or shoot is still absolutely beyond him. His positional sense is non-existent, and he generally is a lumbering distraction.

Farkmaster is so right about Carroll it's literally astonishing - FUCKING ASTONISHING - that anyone can feel otherwise.

Given the delusional sense that most have about him (which, given how long it took Lucas to gain respect is equally astonishing) I pray that he comes good. But he won't - and we will suffer for it.
[/quote]

What's the matter with the hate brigade that they can't give credit where it's due? That's the FUCKING ASTONISHING thing. Everyone at the match last night was more than happy with Carroll's performance, yet I come on here and the lad keeps getting panned. It's not wonderful yet , but there is a big difference in most of his game. It's not delusional it's fucking obvious.

regards
[/quote]


I'm pretty sure us 'haters' have all acknowledged his improved performances , the difference is in the interpretation of how good those performances actually were . The next issue then is looking to the future to what Big Andy can become . Most here seem happy he can step it up even more and bang the goals in but personally i still have my concerns . And because he plays for us , he has to be compared against the best , owen , torres , fowler etc from modern times . Compared to them he's miles behind what a proper , excellant striking performance is .
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48595.msg1479027#msg1479027 date=1328673996]
He's a shit footballer and he doesn't fit into our style of play. The end.
[/quote]

You haven't said that the past few months ... You just said he's can be a good player, but he doesn't fit into our system. What's he done to make you change your tune?
 
[quote author=Dirty Sanchez link=topic=48595.msg1478997#msg1478997 date=1328660663]
I'm with Farky, tony, and Red Zepplin on this - It's like the rest of you lot were watching a different game.

Carroll did put more effort in to the game and his fitness is better than it has been a long time.

However, he still is not a good player. Almost any ball that is played in to him that requires technical footballing skill to control, gain a yard or two, and then pass or shoot is still absolutely beyond him. His positional sense is non-existent, and he generally is a lumbering distraction.

Farkmaster is so right about Carroll it's literally astonishing - FUCKING ASTONISHING - that anyone can feel otherwise.

Given the delusional sense that most have about him (which, given how long it took Lucas to gain respect is equally astonishing) I pray that he comes good. But he won't - and we will suffer for it.
[/quote]

This is spot on.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48595.msg1479027#msg1479027 date=1328673996]
He's a shit footballer and he doesn't fit into our style of play. The end.
[/quote]

... and this is the unabridged version...
 
For the record... Carroll is the new Kuyt... minus the effort, technical ability & intelligence.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48595.msg1478985#msg1478985 date=1328646413]
Fox! It's been ages!
[/quote]

It has indeed Fabs, must be a year or so but I fancied coming back to the mighty 6cm to see what's the crack.

I really hope Andy is going to show his worth now, the confidence change was dramatic in that last game, I am still optimistic on him
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=48595.msg1479002#msg1479002 date=1328661510]
[quote author=Dirty Sanchez link=topic=48595.msg1478997#msg1478997 date=1328660663]
I'm with Farky, tony, and Red Zepplin on this - It's like the rest of you lot were watching a different game.

Carroll did put more effort in to the game and his fitness is better than it has been a long time.

However, he still is not a good player. Almost any ball that is played in to him that requires technical footballing skill to control, gain a yard or two, and then pass or shoot is still absolutely beyond him. His positional sense is non-existent, and he generally is a lumbering distraction.

Farkmaster is so right about Carroll it's literally astonishing - FUCKING ASTONISHING - that anyone can feel otherwise.

Given the delusional sense that most have about him (which, given how long it took Lucas to gain respect is equally astonishing) I pray that he comes good. But he won't - and we will suffer for it.
[/quote]

What's the matter with the hate brigade that they can't give credit where it's due? That's the FUCKING ASTONISHING thing. Everyone at the match last night was more than happy with Carroll's performance, yet I come on here and the lad keeps getting panned. It's not wonderful yet , but there is a big difference in most of his game. It's not delusional it's fucking obvious.

regards
[/quote]

Should be used to it by now Vlad, he did everything that was asked of him and once again can feel aggrieved that his determination to flick the ball into space, to begin moves and get back into the box for the return ball have once again amounted to fuck all because of the inept service and inability to bust a gut by a few of the players around him.
 
carroll needs to learn to play with us and we need to learn to play with carroll (fnar fnar). we do that the combination will be devastating. to many of the creative players are playing with their head down.
 
Fark has owned this thread completely.

People don't know to respond to a well thought out response when they're on their "I'm backing our player who has just played well" trip so they just fling out the "haters gonna hate" line.

Carroll has improved and no-one is denying him whatever credit he deserves for that. It's just just the level to which he has improved doesn't warrant any jumping around for joy.

Someone should do a Scouse boom / bust cycle for new signings.

New big money player is signed and looks shit. Everyone hates on him non-stop.

New signing shows some glimpses of form and suddenly he goes from being a disaster to a player that's going to own the league when he settles in / the team understand him / gets better players / whatever. All in the space of a few touches.

New signing stutters again. Fans become divided between "he's shit, sell!" and "he'll come good" until he's eventually sold and the whole cycle begins again with the new signing.
 
I don't agree with fark or ryan at all. I think there has been a combination of injuries, carroll getting used to how we play and we ourselves not playing to his strengths. I think the raw tools are there we just need to learn how to use them. I don't think it's a case of 'he's shit, the end'. sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards again and think you are going to see an upturn in performances until the guy is filling his boots.
I would go into greater detail why I think this but I can't be arsed, bottom line I think soon carroll is going to prove himself to be a very effective striker.
 
Will carrol ever be a 20 a season striker? No
Will carroll torment defences? With power, yes

He offers us a magnificent plan b that can be effective across the league. Sadly, we seem to have worried about our plan B before we've even formulated our plan A.

I love him because of his big dopey face
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48595.msg1479154#msg1479154 date=1328696772]
Will carrol ever be a 20 a season striker? No

[/quote]

you're speculating
 
Re: Re: Big Andy

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48595.msg1#msg1 date=1328697441]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48595.msg1479154#msg1479154 date=1328696772]
Will carrol ever be a 20 a season striker? No

[/quote]

you're speculating
[/quote]

You're right.

Your point?

He's shown me nothing to the contrary. I really really like the lad but his technique isn't top, his shooting isn't top. Yes that could improve but I'm not going to believe he's going to start smashing then in.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48595.msg1479168#msg1479168 date=1328697441]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48595.msg1479154#msg1479154 date=1328696772]
Will carrol ever be a 20 a season striker? No

[/quote]

you're speculating
[/quote]

Do you think Caroll is a 20 goals a season striker?
 
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=48595.msg1479187#msg1479187 date=1328700322]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48595.msg1479168#msg1479168 date=1328697441]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48595.msg1479154#msg1479154 date=1328696772]
Will carrol ever be a 20 a season striker? No

[/quote]

you're speculating
[/quote]

Do you think Caroll is a 20 goals a season striker?
[/quote]

I think with the right service he can be and I'm not talking about aimless punts into the box.
 
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=48595.msg1479187#msg1479187 date=1328700322]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48595.msg1479168#msg1479168 date=1328697441]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48595.msg1479154#msg1479154 date=1328696772]
Will carrol ever be a 20 a season striker? No

[/quote]

you're speculating
[/quote]

Do you think Caroll is a 20 goals a season striker?
[/quote]

Of course Carroll can score 20 goals in a season. I reckon he'll average between 15-20 most seasons in the EPL with countless assists but maybe not in a LFC shirt. Very simply, he's a very good forward who doesn't yet fit in to our line-up/tactics.
 
Carroll has undoubtedly improved and deserves a bit of credit for that. I can see him now, at the very least, returning to the level he was at whilst at Newcastle. Is that good enough in the long run? No, maybe not. But I don't see why such mild optimism should be scorned at.

I'm not prepared to write him off yet.
 
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=48595.msg1479198#msg1479198 date=1328700860]
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=48595.msg1479187#msg1479187 date=1328700322]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48595.msg1479168#msg1479168 date=1328697441]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48595.msg1479154#msg1479154 date=1328696772]
Will carrol ever be a 20 a season striker? No

[/quote]

you're speculating
[/quote]

Do you think Caroll is a 20 goals a season striker?
[/quote]

Of course Carroll can score 20 goals in a season. I reckon he'll average between 15-20 most seasons in the EPL with countless assists but maybe not in a LFC shirt. Very simply, he's a very good forward who doesn't yet fit in to our line-up/tactics.
[/quote]

we need to meet him half way and we need to meet him half way.
newcastle play good football and they weren't playing long ball with carroll in the team so why should we?
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48595.msg1479213#msg1479213 date=1328701364]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=48595.msg1479198#msg1479198 date=1328700860]
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=48595.msg1479187#msg1479187 date=1328700322]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48595.msg1479168#msg1479168 date=1328697441]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48595.msg1479154#msg1479154 date=1328696772]
Will carrol ever be a 20 a season striker? No

[/quote]

you're speculating
[/quote]

Do you think Caroll is a 20 goals a season striker?
[/quote]

Of course Carroll can score 20 goals in a season. I reckon he'll average between 15-20 most seasons in the EPL with countless assists but maybe not in a LFC shirt. Very simply, he's a very good forward who doesn't yet fit in to our line-up/tactics.
[/quote]

we need to meet him half way and we need to meet him half way.
newcastle play good football and they weren't playing long ball with carroll in the team so why should we?
[/quote]

If we meet him halfway twice, is that a quarter of the way ?

Can he make it that far ?
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48595.msg1479154#msg1479154 date=1328696772]
Will carrol ever be a 20 a season striker? No
Will carroll torment defences? With power, yes

He offers us a magnificent plan b that can be effective across the league. Sadly, we seem to have worried about our plan B before we've even formulated our plan A.

I love him because of his big dopey face
[/quote]

I think he has the ability to be a good player for us, if he puts his mind to it, as he clearly has of late. I do think a run of games, getting over injuries and getting used to the way we play has helped, but I don't think he's a Saint with regards to the way he looks after himself.

My big concern is that we don't have to start next season on the back of him spending much of the Summer out on the piss and then as a result, we have to spend months getting him fit again.

He looks good right now, he might still not be a £35m player but it's difficult not to be encouraged by his upturn in form, and not just because his form before was so dire (Keni), but because he's starting to resemble the player we thought we were buying.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48595.msg1479304#msg1479304 date=1328705436]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48595.msg1479154#msg1479154 date=1328696772]
Will carrol ever be a 20 a season striker? No
Will carroll torment defences? With power, yes

He offers us a magnificent plan b that can be effective across the league. Sadly, we seem to have worried about our plan B before we've even formulated our plan A.

I love him because of his big dopey face
[/quote]

I think he has the ability to be a good player for us, if he puts his mind to it, as he clearly has of late. I do think a run of games, getting over injuries and getting used to the way we play has helped, but I don't think he's a Saint with regards to the way he looks after himself.

My big concern is that we don't have to start next season on the back of him spending much of the Summer out on the piss and then as a result, we have to spending months getting him fit again.

He looks good right now, he might still not be a £35m player but it's difficult not to be encouraged by his upturn in form, and not just because his form before was so dire (Keni), but because he's starting to resemble the player we thought we were buying.
[/quote]

I agree there. The price tag will allways be there though, but if we look beyond it, and he picks his game up even more he will be a potential monster!
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=48595.msg1479096#msg1479096 date=1328691703]
Fark has owned this thread completely.

People don't know to respond to a well thought out response when they're on their "I'm backing our player who has just played well" trip so they just fling out the "haters gonna hate" line.

Carroll has improved and no-one is denying him whatever credit he deserves for that. It's just just the level to which he has improved doesn't warrant any jumping around for joy.

Someone should do a Scouse boom / bust cycle for new signings.

New big money player is signed and looks shit. Everyone hates on him non-stop.

New signing shows some glimpses of form and suddenly he goes from being a disaster to a player that's going to own the league when he settles in / the team understand him / gets better players / whatever. All in the space of a few touches.

New signing stutters again. Fans become divided between "he's shit, sell!" and "he'll come good" until he's eventually sold and the whole cycle begins again with the new signing.
[/quote]Maybe some people are just answering the question of how he performed in this one game rather than making career assumptions.
To say he didnt play well in this game is ridiculous and based on prior bias.
To say he will now come good is a massive leap of faith.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=48595.msg1478994#msg1478994 date=1328660425]
That's the third game on the bounce that Carroll has played well , worked hard for the team and looked more and more interested, and each of those three games has shown a marked improvement. The goals will come and Suarez will start benefiting from those headers.
I am glad to see the people I generally agree with do so on this as well.


regards
[/quote]

I am in total agreement with this. However, I'm also in total agreement with Farky.
 
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