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Big Andy

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So the ideal with carroll looks like us gambling on low percentage knock downs instead of playing proper football, and getting players who can give better delivery so he can score headers.


That's actually true.


The other premiership teams won't have ever seen this strategy before. I'm not sure how they'll defend against it.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=48595.msg1478623#msg1478623 date=1328570388]
So the ideal with carroll looks like us gambling on low percentage knock downs instead of playing proper football, and getting players who can give better delivery so he can score headers.


That's actually true.


The other premiership teams won't have ever seen this strategy before. I'm not sure how they'll defend against it.
[/quote]

So what, we're too high brow a football team to use that as an advantage? Bollocks.
 
It's fine to use it, in fact Rafa used it to get through some of the shit times on the way to moving beyond it. I'm not saying it doesn't have it's purposes.


It is completely shit to make it the cornerstone of your play though, and it won't get us where we want to go. Again, even at doing these things, Crouch was better for me so far, but when Carroll on the back of earning the biggest opportunity of his career starts trying after getting a big kick up his arse and goes from shit to "meh, that's better", that's what it should be seen as. No one has let Andy Carroll down thus far but him, he's no less shit than some of the shit around him.
 
Bollocks mate. All the emphasis has been on downing to produce for him. But downing had been shite.

Carroll is performing now & is making a difference in games, simple as that. He is not restricting anyone's elses play by doing so.
 
What difference did he make in todays game, that he is being so lauded for?


He had poor retention playing several loose balls including conceding a corner, his hold up play was mediocre, and he skied one of our few chances.


The most helpful thing he did was be an outlet and hit flickons. That's low percentage football and isn't the way forward for me, he needs to do more. Spurs defended well, but we didn't really challenge them in any sort of intelligent way, and part of that is that when you play with a target man mentality, just as with crouch, your play ends up being quite predictable.
 
He's certainly improving, did well tonight.
Should have scored though, but he did well.
Getting there.
Might actually help if we start putting in some good crosses though.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=48595.msg1478661#msg1478661 date=1328573130]
What difference did he make in todays game, that he is being so lauded for?


He had poor retention playing several loose balls including conceding a corner, his hold up play was mediocre, and he skied one of our few chances.


The most helpful thing he did was be an outlet and hit flickons. That's low percentage football and isn't the way forward for me, he needs to do more. Spurs defended well, but we didn't really challenge them in any sort of intelligent way, and part of that is that when you play with a target man mentality, just as with crouch, your play ends up being quite predictable.
[/quote]That is nonsense Farky.
He retained the ball well, rarely gave it away, won every challenge, worked hard, harried, broke up play and was the only thorn in the side of a club who played for 75 minutes with 9 men behind the ball.
The difference between this Andy Carroll and the one of 6 weeks ago is HUGE.
We still dont create enough, so little has changed, but your post above, and some of the others about Carroll are so blinkered its untrue.
 
His last three games have been ace and I hope he plays on Saturday.

But goals... we don't seem to have anyone likes scoring loads of goals.
 
I did try to fucking tell you all.

Woland has it spot on though. We need goals, & that part of his game hasn't returned yet, he just needs a goal to get that confidence back, that said, he'll probably never be a 20 goal striker IMO, the problem is we normally have goals from all over the team, & currently we don't.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48595.msg1478514#msg1478514 date=1328566114]
Arguably should have scored tonight, but he's been much improved in the last few weeks.

The signs are there that he's a bit fitter, sharper and might not turn out to be a complete disaster signing.
[/quote]

Aye, he's looking like a player now. Something has switched on definitely.
 
These are the kind of performances he should have been putting in a year ago, and then kicked on from there. If he kicks on now, and starts being involved in more goals, I guess it's not the worst thing. But he does need to go up another level from this.
 
Fuck me you lot must have had your rose tinted glasses on last night. On the plus side a much improved performance and he does look a bit sharper, even one or two flashes showing there might be a footballer in there somewhere. On the downside his touch is very erratic, ok he brought a difficult ball down nicely and even laid it off for a team mate in the first half but what about the touch in the first minute where he gave away a corner from the half way line. He was owned by Dawson in the penalty area and as a striker had two good scoring opportunities that he wasted, yes he is good for us defending at corners but he is a striker ffs and should have buried one of those chances. If you think he is a step up from crouchy I think you need to wipe the shit from your eyes - we need so much better than this.
Having said all that I'm really hoping he will continue to improve and will make the most of what limited talent he has, however mom last night you must be joking.
 
Well obviously it's a good thing that we're finally seeing some effort and fitness from him but again why has this taken the best part of a year to happen ? That's a bit of piss take really . Has it come to this , that basic effort it celebrated so much?

Anyway he is of course playing better and helping the team to a degree but he's still just above average , he's done nothing that special in recent games that makes me think this lad is going to lead our line and bang the goals in that will win us the big stuff .

I mean what are our standards now ? He's not a patch on strikers we've had in years past , the Torres, the Owens, Fowlers etc. He doesn't have the movement , skill , finishing or pace to do what they could . He's very one dimensional and needs the whole team to play to his strengths which we don't seem to be able to do. The closest thing we can compare him to is Crouch and let's be honest , has he done anything in his 1st year here that was better then anything crouch did ? no.

So yeah he's been decent but "exceptional " & "brilliant" ? no way . Guess the question is can he be that , alot here seem to think so , i'm not seeing enough yet to believe he can but hopefully i'm wrong .
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48595.msg1478514#msg1478514 date=1328566114]
Arguably should have scored tonight, but he's been much improved in the last few weeks.

The signs are there that he's a bit fitter, sharper and might not turn out to be a complete disaster signing.
[/quote]

Are you on a wind up? Again.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=48595.msg1478516#msg1478516 date=1328566154]
Won pretty much everything, good work rate, looks quicker also.

Should have scored though 🙁

Keep it up Andy (but start scoring, thanks)
[/quote]

Should have scored? A tad unfair. He wasn't expecting the ball to reach him and it hit him and he did well to control but that meant he was leaning back and leaning back on the half volley only has one result. Row z!!!!!
 
What Fark said.

They did a half time analysis on Carroll over here, and how he was quite poor.

I thought he was most ordinary, and I hate the tendency we have of launching it big to him so often. At least Crouch could control the ball with this chest and lay it off.
 
Re: Re: Big Andy

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48595.msg1478599#msg1478599 date=1328568306]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48595.msg1#msg1 date=1328568228]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48595.msg1478595#msg1478595 date=1328568204]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48595.msg1#msg1 date=1328568083]
I thought he was brilliant tonight. The movement off of him was poor but he was exceptional.
He really should have scored though.
[/quote]

Our problem all season has been mobility

We're so fucking static I want to rip my balls off
[/quote]

I'm not sure that will help anyone
[/quote] it'd help me.

Won't have to worry about socially awkward erections anymore
[/quote]

Your bollocks have erections? Weird...
 
Only caught the last half an hour, but I thought there was signs - as there have been in the last few games - of much more desire and a willingness to put himself about, close people down and harangue the defence.

Obviously there's still a lot of room for improvement, but it seems the attitude is at least on its way to getting there
 
This thread is crazy but predictable.


There need not be two camps, one where Carroll is going to kick on and lay all of the premiership to burnination, and the other where he's irretrievably shit.

I don't think he's irretrievably shit. I am worried he's irretrievably not what a top team uses as their forward, and I think he'd need to go up several more gears for that to be the case.

I'm glad he's putting a shift in now. He should have been doing that since day 1.


I'm glad he's improved. I wish I could find that satisfactory, but I don't. He's succeeding in areas which aren't a rare skill, and he's not excelling at them.

Oncy, I just checked the stats to see if I'm insane, he had 18 complete passes and 14 incomplete. Yes, given how he's played, that can be quite misleading, but it doesn't constitute fantastic ball retention.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=48595.msg1478886#msg1478886 date=1328638622]
This thread is crazy but predictable.


There need not be two camps, one where Carroll is going to kick on and lay all of the premiership to burnination, and the other where he's irretrievably shit.

I don't think he's irretrievably shit. I am worried he's irretrievably not what a top team uses as their forward, and I think he'd need to go up several more gears for that to be the case.

I'm glad he's putting a shift in now. He should have been doing that since day 1.


I'm glad he's improved. I wish I could find that satisfactory, but I don't. He's succeeding in areas which aren't a rare skill, and he's not excelling at them.

Oncy, I just checked the stats to see if I'm insane, he had 18 complete passes and 14 incomplete. Yes, given how he's played, that can be quite misleading, but it doesn't constitute fantastic ball retention.
[/quote]I bet all of those were balls bombed up to him that he has flicked on and no one has been there to pick up the flick ons. That stat. Its broken.
 
Well, I'm sure some of them were. Yes we should gamble better on them, but playing like that loses possession fruitlessly a lot of the time, even when it's done well. It's a low percentage way of playing. That's kind of my point.
 
Loved watching Andy last night, lovely touch, fitter, more energy and aggression

Good signs

If that headed chance had fallen to him at the end instead of Suarez who is shit in the air, we would have won.

Hope Andy plays Saturday
 
That's the third game on the bounce that Carroll has played well , worked hard for the team and looked more and more interested, and each of those three games has shown a marked improvement. The goals will come and Suarez will start benefiting from those headers.
I am glad to see the people I generally agree with do so on this as well.


regards
 
I'm with Farky, tony, and Red Zepplin on this - It's like the rest of you lot were watching a different game.

Carroll did put more effort in to the game and his fitness is better than it has been a long time.

However, he still is not a good player. Almost any ball that is played in to him that requires technical footballing skill to control, gain a yard or two, and then pass or shoot is still absolutely beyond him. His positional sense is non-existent, and he generally is a lumbering distraction.

Farkmaster is so right about Carroll it's literally astonishing - FUCKING ASTONISHING - that anyone can feel otherwise.

Given the delusional sense that most have about him (which, given how long it took Lucas to gain respect is equally astonishing) I pray that he comes good. But he won't - and we will suffer for it.
 
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