Can everyone please stop picking on Brendan? It's getting a bit tiresome now and it doesn't seem to matter what he posts, people just jump down his throat.
Benitez's tactics require 14 outfield players
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[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38771.msg1048462#msg1048462 date=1265192608]
Benitez buys too many players who need "the right partner" or "extra help" or "someone who can tackle/ pass/ score goals/ track back" next to or around them. Too many players that can't function at all when in any way isolated. Too many players who simply don't possess more than ONE skill. And in some cases have none at all.
[/quote]
Although I agree with this, I find it quite ironic that you are making this point despite being one of Dirk Kuyts biggest fans. A striker/winger that has no first touch, pace, or dribbling skill seems like the sort of player that your post should be criticising.
Benitez buys too many players who need "the right partner" or "extra help" or "someone who can tackle/ pass/ score goals/ track back" next to or around them. Too many players that can't function at all when in any way isolated. Too many players who simply don't possess more than ONE skill. And in some cases have none at all.
[/quote]
Although I agree with this, I find it quite ironic that you are making this point despite being one of Dirk Kuyts biggest fans. A striker/winger that has no first touch, pace, or dribbling skill seems like the sort of player that your post should be criticising.
[quote author=refugee link=topic=38771.msg1048817#msg1048817 date=1265242664]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38771.msg1048462#msg1048462 date=1265192608]
Benitez buys too many players who need "the right partner" or "extra help" or "someone who can tackle/ pass/ score goals/ track back" next to or around them. Too many players that can't function at all when in any way isolated. Too many players who simply don't possess more than ONE skill. And in some cases have none at all.
[/quote]
Although I agree with this, I find it quite ironic that you are making this point despite being one of Dirk Kuyts biggest fans. A striker/winger that has no first touch, pace, or dribbling skill seems like the sort of player that your post should be criticising.
[/quote]
Yeah. Whilst like yourself I agree with the sentiment, the irony of the Kuyt support wasn't lost on my either.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38771.msg1048462#msg1048462 date=1265192608]
Benitez buys too many players who need "the right partner" or "extra help" or "someone who can tackle/ pass/ score goals/ track back" next to or around them. Too many players that can't function at all when in any way isolated. Too many players who simply don't possess more than ONE skill. And in some cases have none at all.
[/quote]
Although I agree with this, I find it quite ironic that you are making this point despite being one of Dirk Kuyts biggest fans. A striker/winger that has no first touch, pace, or dribbling skill seems like the sort of player that your post should be criticising.
[/quote]
Yeah. Whilst like yourself I agree with the sentiment, the irony of the Kuyt support wasn't lost on my either.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38771.msg1048432#msg1048432 date=1265187372]
It's quite incredible.
Through a combination of his defensive nature, dreadful squad, and lack of trust in some players, we have been lumbered with a formation that really needs three more outfield players to work.
Lucas is so cataclysmically inept that he really needs two more central midfielders on the pitch in order to make our midfield function. Se we get Masher sitting next to him, and Gerrard playing ahead of him. And Aquilani getting 30 seconds against the eorst European opposition we've ever faced.
The CBs are pinned back almost by our own two-man, deep-sitting screen, so that's four men patrolling the same 30 yards of space and passing sideways and backwards to eachother.
Insua is so shit he needs to play either the hard-working (if slow) Riera ahead of him. Or even better, another left-back in Aurelio.
And Magic Johnson is very attacking, so Kuyt has been instructed to do an even more defensive job that he usually does, so much so that he looks more of a right-back than Magic.
So we have a situation where players are overlapping in defence, leaving gaping holes in our attack - which because of the restrictions elsewhere, only ever allows for ONE player to play up there - and without the pacy, attack-minded support from the flanks that this foremation needs.
So it's no real wonder that we need one of the best and quickest strikers in the world to play there, otherwise we look fucked and toothless.
I don't see where Benitez thought Keane fitted this formation, or indeed why he bought Purple (who also seems to require two players to baby-sit him)
[/quote]
Oh dear.
It's quite incredible.
Through a combination of his defensive nature, dreadful squad, and lack of trust in some players, we have been lumbered with a formation that really needs three more outfield players to work.
Lucas is so cataclysmically inept that he really needs two more central midfielders on the pitch in order to make our midfield function. Se we get Masher sitting next to him, and Gerrard playing ahead of him. And Aquilani getting 30 seconds against the eorst European opposition we've ever faced.
The CBs are pinned back almost by our own two-man, deep-sitting screen, so that's four men patrolling the same 30 yards of space and passing sideways and backwards to eachother.
Insua is so shit he needs to play either the hard-working (if slow) Riera ahead of him. Or even better, another left-back in Aurelio.
And Magic Johnson is very attacking, so Kuyt has been instructed to do an even more defensive job that he usually does, so much so that he looks more of a right-back than Magic.
So we have a situation where players are overlapping in defence, leaving gaping holes in our attack - which because of the restrictions elsewhere, only ever allows for ONE player to play up there - and without the pacy, attack-minded support from the flanks that this foremation needs.
So it's no real wonder that we need one of the best and quickest strikers in the world to play there, otherwise we look fucked and toothless.
I don't see where Benitez thought Keane fitted this formation, or indeed why he bought Purple (who also seems to require two players to baby-sit him)
[/quote]
Oh dear.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38771.msg1048827#msg1048827 date=1265248323]
Oh dear.
[/quote]
Yep....poor old brendan was claiming to be Irish last week, now he wants to turn us into a 15 player GAA team!! He's losing the plot! ???
Oh dear.
[/quote]
Yep....poor old brendan was claiming to be Irish last week, now he wants to turn us into a 15 player GAA team!! He's losing the plot! ???
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38771.msg1048827#msg1048827 date=1265248323]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38771.msg1048432#msg1048432 date=1265187372]
It's quite incredible.
Through a combination of his defensive nature, dreadful squad, and lack of trust in some players, we have been lumbered with a formation that really needs three more outfield players to work.
Lucas is so cataclysmically inept that he really needs two more central midfielders on the pitch in order to make our midfield function. Se we get Masher sitting next to him, and Gerrard playing ahead of him. And Aquilani getting 30 seconds against the eorst European opposition we've ever faced.
The CBs are pinned back almost by our own two-man, deep-sitting screen, so that's four men patrolling the same 30 yards of space and passing sideways and backwards to eachother.
Insua is so shit he needs to play either the hard-working (if slow) Riera ahead of him. Or even better, another left-back in Aurelio.
And Magic Johnson is very attacking, so Kuyt has been instructed to do an even more defensive job that he usually does, so much so that he looks more of a right-back than Magic.
So we have a situation where players are overlapping in defence, leaving gaping holes in our attack - which because of the restrictions elsewhere, only ever allows for ONE player to play up there - and without the pacy, attack-minded support from the flanks that this foremation needs.
So it's no real wonder that we need one of the best and quickest strikers in the world to play there, otherwise we look fucked and toothless.
I don't see where Benitez thought Keane fitted this formation, or indeed why he bought Purple (who also seems to require two players to baby-sit him)
[/quote]
Oh dear.
[/quote]
Oh dear what Ryan?
It's all accurate.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38771.msg1048432#msg1048432 date=1265187372]
It's quite incredible.
Through a combination of his defensive nature, dreadful squad, and lack of trust in some players, we have been lumbered with a formation that really needs three more outfield players to work.
Lucas is so cataclysmically inept that he really needs two more central midfielders on the pitch in order to make our midfield function. Se we get Masher sitting next to him, and Gerrard playing ahead of him. And Aquilani getting 30 seconds against the eorst European opposition we've ever faced.
The CBs are pinned back almost by our own two-man, deep-sitting screen, so that's four men patrolling the same 30 yards of space and passing sideways and backwards to eachother.
Insua is so shit he needs to play either the hard-working (if slow) Riera ahead of him. Or even better, another left-back in Aurelio.
And Magic Johnson is very attacking, so Kuyt has been instructed to do an even more defensive job that he usually does, so much so that he looks more of a right-back than Magic.
So we have a situation where players are overlapping in defence, leaving gaping holes in our attack - which because of the restrictions elsewhere, only ever allows for ONE player to play up there - and without the pacy, attack-minded support from the flanks that this foremation needs.
So it's no real wonder that we need one of the best and quickest strikers in the world to play there, otherwise we look fucked and toothless.
I don't see where Benitez thought Keane fitted this formation, or indeed why he bought Purple (who also seems to require two players to baby-sit him)
[/quote]
Oh dear.
[/quote]
Oh dear what Ryan?
It's all accurate.
Interesting post.
It's always been a crucial part of a Managers job to decide if a players major strengths, be it passing, tackling, pace, are to such a high level that they demand team inclusion despite allowing for what may be glaring weakness in their game. Additionally, should we afford them a specific (often lesser overall) player alongside them to compensate for their deficiencies.
Prime examples, Jan Molby & Xabi Alonso - Centre-Mids with no pace, imobile, hardly dynamic, never got in the box, but their vision and talent for passing was so great, and in Molby's case, was afforded what would seem quite limited players (Kevin McDonald/Nigel Spackman) next to him to compensate specifically for his weaknesses.
Didi Hamann. Nobody ever considered that Gerrard was "Carrying" Didi for his lack of pace, because he had his own outstanding attributes.
This is not the case in the current side. Lucas/Insua both regulars with no attributes above the level of fair/average to deem them worthy of maintaining a regular place and be helped out by our better players to compensate for their numerous weakenesses.
Even a player like Aurelio. Does his considerable deadball ability outweigh his defensive frailties and make him a worthwhile inclusion? I'd say NO for a team with title ambitions.
On the other hand, Glen Johnson - Does his attacking ability outweigh his defensive shortcomings and make him worth a place and be afforded a player (Kuyt) to help cover his weaknesses? I'd say YES.
People have slated Mascherano's passing of late, but he would always be in my team for his outstanding , tackling, work rate, defensive covering. He has an outstadning talent in that regard.
What we have now are several decent to average players with no discernable major attribute being CARRIED by our better players.
Gerrard & Masher CARRY Lucas
Torres CARRIES every strike partner bar Gerrard
Carragher & Reina CARRIES most of the back four.
Thats not enough for a team wanting to be consistant title contenders.
It's always been a crucial part of a Managers job to decide if a players major strengths, be it passing, tackling, pace, are to such a high level that they demand team inclusion despite allowing for what may be glaring weakness in their game. Additionally, should we afford them a specific (often lesser overall) player alongside them to compensate for their deficiencies.
Prime examples, Jan Molby & Xabi Alonso - Centre-Mids with no pace, imobile, hardly dynamic, never got in the box, but their vision and talent for passing was so great, and in Molby's case, was afforded what would seem quite limited players (Kevin McDonald/Nigel Spackman) next to him to compensate specifically for his weaknesses.
Didi Hamann. Nobody ever considered that Gerrard was "Carrying" Didi for his lack of pace, because he had his own outstanding attributes.
This is not the case in the current side. Lucas/Insua both regulars with no attributes above the level of fair/average to deem them worthy of maintaining a regular place and be helped out by our better players to compensate for their numerous weakenesses.
Even a player like Aurelio. Does his considerable deadball ability outweigh his defensive frailties and make him a worthwhile inclusion? I'd say NO for a team with title ambitions.
On the other hand, Glen Johnson - Does his attacking ability outweigh his defensive shortcomings and make him worth a place and be afforded a player (Kuyt) to help cover his weaknesses? I'd say YES.
People have slated Mascherano's passing of late, but he would always be in my team for his outstanding , tackling, work rate, defensive covering. He has an outstadning talent in that regard.
What we have now are several decent to average players with no discernable major attribute being CARRIED by our better players.
Gerrard & Masher CARRY Lucas
Torres CARRIES every strike partner bar Gerrard
Carragher & Reina CARRIES most of the back four.
Thats not enough for a team wanting to be consistant title contenders.
Good post mate. Agree with most of that.
Who thinks that in real life Brendan gets his skinny ass kicked a lot?
Defeating Everton evidently only requires 9.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=38771.msg1050155#msg1050155 date=1265467894]
Defeating Everton evidently only requires 9.
[/quote]
5 in fact, as Lucas, Insua, Maxi and Wash all did nothing whatsoever apparently.
Defeating Everton evidently only requires 9.
[/quote]
5 in fact, as Lucas, Insua, Maxi and Wash all did nothing whatsoever apparently.
S
Squiggles
Guest
Yup, thanks for the season Rafa.
nine men and a cunt.
Great name for a porno.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=38771.msg1050155#msg1050155 date=1265467894]
Defeating Everton evidently only requires 9.
[/quote]
Ha ha ha, excellent post Fark.
Defeating Everton evidently only requires 9.
[/quote]
Ha ha ha, excellent post Fark.
[quote author=caparo link=topic=38771.msg1048501#msg1048501 date=1265196783]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38771.msg1048432#msg1048432 date=1265187372]
It's quite incredible.
Through a combination of his defensive nature, dreadful squad, and lack of trust in some players, we have been lumbered with a formation that really needs three more outfield players to work.
Lucas is so cataclysmically inept that he really needs two more central midfielders on the pitch in order to make our midfield function. Se we get Masher sitting next to him, and Gerrard playing ahead of him. And Aquilani getting 30 seconds against the eorst European opposition we've ever faced.
The CBs are pinned back almost by our own two-man, deep-sitting screen, so that's four men patrolling the same 30 yards of space and passing sideways and backwards to eachother.
Insua is so shit he needs to play either the hard-working (if slow) Riera ahead of him. Or even better, another left-back in Aurelio.
And Magic Johnson is very attacking, so Kuyt has been instructed to do an even more defensive job that he usually does, so much so that he looks more of a right-back than Magic.
So we have a situation where players are overlapping in defence, leaving gaping holes in our attack - which because of the restrictions elsewhere, only ever allows for ONE player to play up there - and without the pacy, attack-minded support from the flanks that this foremation needs.
So it's no real wonder that we need one of the best and quickest strikers in the world to play there, otherwise we look fucked and toothless.
I don't see where Benitez thought Keane fitted this formation, or indeed why he bought Purple (who also seems to require two players to baby-sit him)
[/quote]
That's a pretty poor post.
Your only point is that the players aren't good enough in their respective positions.
This doesn't mean that his tactics require 14 outfield players.
His tactics are based on 10 outfield players. They will never require 14 outfield players.
Perhaps you meant to say his tactics require 10 outfield players with a more complete set of skills and a higher level of fitness?
(Which is equally dumb because I'd imagine any set of tactics / formation in the premier league requires good players to be successful. I'd also imagine that tactics that only require 10 limited players aren't going to be very exciting)
Perhaps a more intelligent comment would be that his tactics are limited in possibilities and space because each player is only committed to a limited number of specialised roles. However, I don't think this is really true either. As someone else has pointed out, with good players in all positions we did quite well without being one-dimensional so the problem isn't really with the tactics but the personnel.
All said and done though, your assessment of our squad just boils down to your irrational dislike of Lucas. In your post you pretty much finger him as the cause of all our problems which isn't true at all and makes you look a bit silly.
[/quote]
Nice post.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38771.msg1048432#msg1048432 date=1265187372]
It's quite incredible.
Through a combination of his defensive nature, dreadful squad, and lack of trust in some players, we have been lumbered with a formation that really needs three more outfield players to work.
Lucas is so cataclysmically inept that he really needs two more central midfielders on the pitch in order to make our midfield function. Se we get Masher sitting next to him, and Gerrard playing ahead of him. And Aquilani getting 30 seconds against the eorst European opposition we've ever faced.
The CBs are pinned back almost by our own two-man, deep-sitting screen, so that's four men patrolling the same 30 yards of space and passing sideways and backwards to eachother.
Insua is so shit he needs to play either the hard-working (if slow) Riera ahead of him. Or even better, another left-back in Aurelio.
And Magic Johnson is very attacking, so Kuyt has been instructed to do an even more defensive job that he usually does, so much so that he looks more of a right-back than Magic.
So we have a situation where players are overlapping in defence, leaving gaping holes in our attack - which because of the restrictions elsewhere, only ever allows for ONE player to play up there - and without the pacy, attack-minded support from the flanks that this foremation needs.
So it's no real wonder that we need one of the best and quickest strikers in the world to play there, otherwise we look fucked and toothless.
I don't see where Benitez thought Keane fitted this formation, or indeed why he bought Purple (who also seems to require two players to baby-sit him)
[/quote]
That's a pretty poor post.
Your only point is that the players aren't good enough in their respective positions.
This doesn't mean that his tactics require 14 outfield players.
His tactics are based on 10 outfield players. They will never require 14 outfield players.
Perhaps you meant to say his tactics require 10 outfield players with a more complete set of skills and a higher level of fitness?
(Which is equally dumb because I'd imagine any set of tactics / formation in the premier league requires good players to be successful. I'd also imagine that tactics that only require 10 limited players aren't going to be very exciting)
Perhaps a more intelligent comment would be that his tactics are limited in possibilities and space because each player is only committed to a limited number of specialised roles. However, I don't think this is really true either. As someone else has pointed out, with good players in all positions we did quite well without being one-dimensional so the problem isn't really with the tactics but the personnel.
All said and done though, your assessment of our squad just boils down to your irrational dislike of Lucas. In your post you pretty much finger him as the cause of all our problems which isn't true at all and makes you look a bit silly.
[/quote]
Nice post.
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