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Be Honest: Who Wants Kenny OUT ?

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[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47563.msg1427613#msg1427613 date=1321571941]


A lot of us, me included, took Rafa's reign for granted. What would we give now to see big Champions League nights at Anfield and turning over Europe's finest in the the Nou Camp, Bernabeu, San Siro.
[/quote]

Yeah I was anything but a big Rafa fan , I wanted him out but at the time my main reason was because I felt we'd never win the league under him , I never imagined we'd be in a place where 4th was seen as such a massive success . I doubt we'd be any worse a position now if he was still here .
 
I'd like Kenny to stay and succeed. 1 season is not enough time to judge the last manager to lead us to a title.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47563.msg1427566#msg1427566 date=1321569764]
I'm in the "stop spending money on shite players" camp. But I'm weird like that.

If Rada had spent 55M on those two clowns, he'd have been drown in the Mersey by now.
[/quote]

Bingo.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47563.msg1427745#msg1427745 date=1321598944]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47563.msg1427566#msg1427566 date=1321569764]
I'm in the "stop spending money on shite players" camp. But I'm weird like that.

If Rada had spent 55M on those two clowns, he'd have been drown in the Mersey by now.
[/quote]

Bingo.
[/quote]

Yeah, but Rafa was doing shit like that after 5 years. Kenny was still in his honeymoon period which is why people have cut him 'some' slack. Not that it justifies it, but using Rafa as a comparison is hardly fair given the respective amount of time both have had to get it right.

Spending £20m odd on average players is screwing us though and has done for about the last 4 years.
 
He doesn´t rotate and the squad seems very happy and he has their respect but he needs to stop fucking up on the transfer market and his subs has been all wrong (except on one occasion that I can think of).

No, I don´t want him out but I´m not sure he has the edge to take us to top 3.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=47563.msg1427781#msg1427781 date=1321602805]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47563.msg1427745#msg1427745 date=1321598944]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47563.msg1427566#msg1427566 date=1321569764]
I'm in the "stop spending money on shite players" camp. But I'm weird like that.

If Rada had spent 55M on those two clowns, he'd have been drown in the Mersey by now.
[/quote]

Bingo.
[/quote]

Yeah, but Rafa was doing shit like that after 5 years. Kenny was still in his honeymoon period which is why people have cut him 'some' slack. Not that it justifies it, but using Rafa as a comparison is hardly fair given the respective amount of time both have had to get it right.

Spending £20m odd on average players is screwing us though and has done for about the last 4 years.
[/quote]

rafa's transfer record is the best of any manager we've had since kenny originally resigned in 91, including the new kenny. he never deserved the slating he got, and me and many other fans will never tire of pointing it out now more or less all those harsh critics have had to realise the error of their ways.

so get used to it!
 
Think I can't forgive rafas transfers for spunking 50m on aqua, Keane and Johnson.

Least I like big Andy. With a bit of direction he could be our own balotelli
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47563.msg1427820#msg1427820 date=1321606452]
Think I can't forgive rafas transfers for spunking 50m on aqua, Keane and Johnson.

Least I like big Andy. With a bit of direction he could be our own balotelli
[/quote]
He could start by setting off fireworks in his bathroom. I'm not sure if he has it in him to be as good as balotelli though...
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47563.msg1427817#msg1427817 date=1321606214]


rafa's transfer record is the best of any manager we've had since kenny originally resigned in 91, including the new kenny. he never deserved the slating he got, and me and many other fans will never tire of pointing it out now more or less all those harsh critics have had to realise the error of their ways.

so get used to it!
[/quote]

Do you get some kind of special alert every time someone posts anything mildly critical of Benitez in any thread? Whenever it happens you seem to be there quite quickly to defend him

Bit like that poster from Est who used to suddenly appear every time anyone mentioned that site on here.
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=47563.msg1427828#msg1427828 date=1321607796]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47563.msg1427817#msg1427817 date=1321606214]


rafa's transfer record is the best of any manager we've had since kenny originally resigned in 91, including the new kenny. he never deserved the slating he got, and me and many other fans will never tire of pointing it out now more or less all those harsh critics have had to realise the error of their ways.

so get used to it!
[/quote]

Do you get some kind of special alert every time someone posts anything mildly critical of Benitez in any thread? Whenever it happens you seem to be there quite quickly to defend him

Bit like that poster from Est who used to suddenly appear every time anyone mentioned that site on here.
[/quote]

do you get some special alert every time i post something after getting some special alert about someone posting something about benitez?
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47563.msg1427566#msg1427566 date=1321569764]
I'm in the "stop spending money on shite players" camp. But I'm weird like that.

If Rada had spent 55M on those two clowns, he'd have been drown in the Mersey by now.
[/quote]

To be fair, rafa spent £40m on aqua and keane. Two utterly pointless players.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47563.msg1427831#msg1427831 date=1321608535]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=47563.msg1427828#msg1427828 date=1321607796]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47563.msg1427817#msg1427817 date=1321606214]


rafa's transfer record is the best of any manager we've had since kenny originally resigned in 91, including the new kenny. he never deserved the slating he got, and me and many other fans will never tire of pointing it out now more or less all those harsh critics have had to realise the error of their ways.

so get used to it!
[/quote]

Do you get some kind of special alert every time someone posts anything mildly critical of Benitez in any thread? Whenever it happens you seem to be there quite quickly to defend him

Bit like that poster from Est who used to suddenly appear every time anyone mentioned that site on here.
[/quote]

do you get some special alert every time i post something after getting some special alert about someone posting something about benitez?
[/quote]

Yes. Yes I do.
 
Personally speaking I'm no where near wanting kenny out because I can 'kinda' see what he is trying to do but is having teething problems. I wanted Roy out because I could see what he was trying to do and I didn't like to think about what we would eventually become. As long we are moving forwards and progressing I'm happy but I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed we aren't averaging 2 points a game because our squad is good enough to achieve that.
 
This is one of the reasons why kenny maybe should have stepped down after steadying the ship because if it goes tits up it is going to hurt a lot more than when things went tits for rafa because kenny is a hero to me and part of that legend would be slightly tarnished but kenny wanted to put that on the line when he took the job.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47563.msg1427843#msg1427843 date=1321609388]
Personally speaking I'm no where near wanting kenny out because I can 'kinda' see what he is trying to do but is having teething problems. I wanted Roy out because I could see what he was trying to do and I didn't like ti think about what we would eventually become. As ling as we are moving forwards and progressing I'm happy but I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed we aren't averaging 2 points a game because our squad is good enough to achieve that.
[/quote]
This. But not with so many spelling mistakes.
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=47563.msg1427841#msg1427841 date=1321609262]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47563.msg1427831#msg1427831 date=1321608535]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=47563.msg1427828#msg1427828 date=1321607796]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47563.msg1427817#msg1427817 date=1321606214]


rafa's transfer record is the best of any manager we've had since kenny originally resigned in 91, including the new kenny. he never deserved the slating he got, and me and many other fans will never tire of pointing it out now more or less all those harsh critics have had to realise the error of their ways.

so get used to it!
[/quote]

Do you get some kind of special alert every time someone posts anything mildly critical of Benitez in any thread? Whenever it happens you seem to be there quite quickly to defend him

Bit like that poster from Est who used to suddenly appear every time anyone mentioned that site on here.
[/quote]

do you get some special alert every time i post something after getting some special alert about someone posting something about benitez?
[/quote]

Yes. Yes I do.
[/quote]

well then people in glass houses should fuck off. 😉
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47563.msg1427852#msg1427852 date=1321609719]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=47563.msg1427841#msg1427841 date=1321609262]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47563.msg1427831#msg1427831 date=1321608535]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=47563.msg1427828#msg1427828 date=1321607796]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47563.msg1427817#msg1427817 date=1321606214]


rafa's transfer record is the best of any manager we've had since kenny originally resigned in 91, including the new kenny. he never deserved the slating he got, and me and many other fans will never tire of pointing it out now more or less all those harsh critics have had to realise the error of their ways.

so get used to it!
[/quote]

Do you get some kind of special alert every time someone posts anything mildly critical of Benitez in any thread? Whenever it happens you seem to be there quite quickly to defend him

Bit like that poster from Est who used to suddenly appear every time anyone mentioned that site on here.
[/quote]

do you get some special alert every time i post something after getting some special alert about someone posting something about benitez?
[/quote]

Yes. Yes I do.
[/quote]

well then people in glass houses should fuck off. 😉
[/quote]

Someone's awfully grumpy this morning
 
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=47563.msg1427851#msg1427851 date=1321609651]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47563.msg1427843#msg1427843 date=1321609388]
Personally speaking I'm no where near wanting kenny out because I can 'kinda' see what he is trying to do but is having teething problems. I wanted Roy out because I could see what he was trying to do and I didn't like ti think about what we would eventually become. As ling as we are moving forwards and progressing I'm happy but I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed we aren't averaging 2 points a game because our squad is good enough to achieve that.
[/quote]
This. But not with so many spelling mistakes.
[/quote]

my spelling is normally bad but today I had help with predict text on the iphone.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47563.msg1427877#msg1427877 date=1321611476]
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=47563.msg1427851#msg1427851 date=1321609651]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47563.msg1427843#msg1427843 date=1321609388]
Personally speaking I'm no where near wanting kenny out because I can 'kinda' see what he is trying to do but is having teething problems. I wanted Roy out because I could see what he was trying to do and I didn't like ti think about what we would eventually become. As ling as we are moving forwards and progressing I'm happy but I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed we aren't averaging 2 points a game because our squad is good enough to achieve that.
[/quote]
This. But not with so many spelling mistakes.
[/quote]

my spelling is normally bad but today I had help with predict text on the iphone.
[/quote]
I'm just busting your chops. My spelling isn't the greatest either. I agree with what you said though.
 
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=47563.msg1427879#msg1427879 date=1321611559]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47563.msg1427877#msg1427877 date=1321611476]
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=47563.msg1427851#msg1427851 date=1321609651]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47563.msg1427843#msg1427843 date=1321609388]
Personally speaking I'm no where near wanting kenny out because I can 'kinda' see what he is trying to do but is having teething problems. I wanted Roy out because I could see what he was trying to do and I didn't like ti think about what we would eventually become. As ling as we are moving forwards and progressing I'm happy but I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed we aren't averaging 2 points a game because our squad is good enough to achieve that.
[/quote]
This. But not with so many spelling mistakes.
[/quote]

my spelling is normally bad but today I had help with predict text on the iphone.
[/quote]
I'm just busting your chops. My spelling isn't the greatest either. I agree with what you said though.
[/quote]

I can't talk for anyone else or any other club for me the basic criteria for a liverpool mananger is; can this man win the league? at the end of the transitional period will be be good enough to at least challenge for the top prize in england?

with that said though, obviously the goal posts have changed, man city have spent half a BILLION shaping their squad, so the task is harder than it's ever been but I believe (because that's all it is, belief) that after kenny completely changes our mentality to a footballing side (that's what I mean I can see what he is trying to do) and the intergration of our more talented kids I can see us challenge for the title but that is years of but I'm prepared to give him that time, roy aside (who was fucking CLUELESS) we have given our managers time to shape their vision and kenny should be afforded that time as well, he's earnt it.
 
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47563.msg1427613#msg1427613 date=1321571941]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47563.msg1427566#msg1427566 date=1321569764]
I'm in the "stop spending money on shite players" camp. But I'm weird like that.

If Rada had spent 55M on those two clowns, he'd have been drown in the Mersey by now.
[/quote]

Spot on.

Rafa signed some duds no doubt but most of them were cheap(ish duds), Kenny's spent over £100 million to assemble HIS squad yet just £30 million of that we can safely say has been well spent(Suarez and Enrique). Jury's out on the others.

A lot of us, me included, took Rafa's reign for granted. What would we give now to see big Champions League nights at Anfield and turning over Europe's finest in the the Nou Camp, Bernabeu, San Siro.
[/quote]

Do you know what the real problem is ?

People massively overrate what a manager can and can't do. They think everything is down to the manager, which is complete and utter nonsense since most managers don't make the slightest bit of difference.

What you're actually taking for granted is the increased money that was available in growth years from basically 02-08/09. Teams always improve when they increase wage bills and to some extent transfer spending regardless of who is in charge, which is what happened for us during that time. The minute the increases stopped what happened ? You got to see how good Benitez's past decisions were because there wasn't increased money to cover up mistakes.

As evidence for pretty much all of this have a look at Villa under O'Neill, Sunderland under Bruce, Stoke under Pulis, every club Harry Redknapp has worked at (and left in financial ruins).

Money is key, managers are shit.
 
the problem with that argument (for you) is that it makes your particular contempt for Rafa all the more illogical. if managers are basically unimportant, why get worked up over one in particular in Benitez? it's an absurdity.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47563.msg1427894#msg1427894 date=1321612304]
which is complete and utter nonsense since most managers don't make the slightest bit of difference.


[/quote]

not that chestnut again. we were punching above our weight with rafa and even though there was an increase in spending our spending didn't even begin to cover our CL win.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47563.msg1427920#msg1427920 date=1321614190]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47563.msg1427894#msg1427894 date=1321612304]
which is complete and utter nonsense since most managers don't make the slightest bit of difference.


[/quote]

not that chestnut again. we were punching above our weight with rafa and even though there was an increase in spending our spending didn't even begin to cover our CL win.
[/quote]

We weren't.

We were outspending the vast majority of our rivals during that period.

Everyone except Chelsea, then City towards the end. That's fact.

I cant credit him with a CL win when he picked the wrong fucking team, we won despite him.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47563.msg1427901#msg1427901 date=1321612679]
the problem with that argument (for you) is that it makes your particular contempt for Rafa all the more illogical. if managers are basically unimportant, why get worked up over one in particular in Benitez? it's an absurdity.
[/quote]

I didn't say they were unimportant, I said most of them don't make a positive difference to the club they manage. Benitez could have, but threw it all away with awful decision making.

Right now I'm not going to get worked up over bollocks like tactics because its the icing on the cake, we still don't have a cake at the moment.


I'm hungry.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47563.msg1427925#msg1427925 date=1321614500]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47563.msg1427920#msg1427920 date=1321614190]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47563.msg1427894#msg1427894 date=1321612304]
which is complete and utter nonsense since most managers don't make the slightest bit of difference.


[/quote]

not that chestnut again. we were punching above our weight with rafa and even though there was an increase in spending our spending didn't even begin to cover our CL win.
[/quote]

We weren't.

We were outspending the vast majority of our rivals during that period.

Everyone except Chelsea,

[/quote]

who we beat in the semi final, therefore we were punching above our weight. we finished above chelsea to finish 2nd in the league therefore we were punching above our weight.
either rafa was better than the wage bill suggests or jose was worse, either way the managers made a difference to their respective teams performance.
 
Go back and have a look at what happened to Chelsea the time we finished above them.

Doing something once isn't punching above your weight btw, that's simply going to happen every now and again.
 
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