Be Honest: Who Wants Kenny OUT ?

[SaintGeorge67]

Oops, nevermind then!

 

[gene hughes]

False images or insults regarding the king are forbidden, if anyone draws any cartoons or caricatures of Kenny there'll be rioting Liverpool superfans all over the world.

 

[Squiggles]

It's extremely obvious that the Hague was joking.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47563.msg1428194#msg1428194 date=1321638874]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47563.msg1428152#msg1428152 date=1321633947]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47563.msg1428088#msg1428088 date=1321626955]
I'm disappointed.

He started so well and got an ordinary side playing above itself. That and our increased transfer budget gave me a bit of hope for this season, but we spent a lot of money on the wrong players and we're going to pay the price at the end of the season. I'm now expecting to finish about 6th. If that's the case the owners have every right to feel aggrieved.

Maybe Comolli needs to be given a greater say in transfers. I don't know.
[/quote]

I do, and the answer's a big fat "no", not after his distinctly patchy performance at Tottenham where he brought in a mixture of some excellent players and some utter dross. Even if Kenny's buys turn out to have been poor (which BTW it's way too soon to judge) Comolli would represent no kind of improvement.

If we do finish 6th I think Kenny will either walk or be eased out. John Henry has publicly set a CL place as the target for this season. He may be a nice guy but I don't think anyone should confuse that with weakness.
[/quote]

Yeah it's Champions League or bust for Kenny and he'll not need some nobody like me on a football forum to tell him that.

The Owners didn't give Kenny a massive sum of money to spend for a bit of fun.
[/quote]

I'm not sure that's the case. Let's not forget that Henry only said it would be "disappointing" to miss out on the top four, which is a standard enough remark. I think Kenny will be given another season, although his plans will be greater scrutinised before any cheques are signed, and rightly so, too.

 

[Gary25]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47563.msg1428265#msg1428265 date=1321649118]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47563.msg1428194#msg1428194 date=1321638874]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47563.msg1428152#msg1428152 date=1321633947]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47563.msg1428088#msg1428088 date=1321626955]
I'm disappointed.

He started so well and got an ordinary side playing above itself. That and our increased transfer budget gave me a bit of hope for this season, but we spent a lot of money on the wrong players and we're going to pay the price at the end of the season. I'm now expecting to finish about 6th. If that's the case the owners have every right to feel aggrieved.

Maybe Comolli needs to be given a greater say in transfers. I don't know.
[/quote]

I do, and the answer's a big fat "no", not after his distinctly patchy performance at Tottenham where he brought in a mixture of some excellent players and some utter dross. Even if Kenny's buys turn out to have been poor (which BTW it's way too soon to judge) Comolli would represent no kind of improvement.

If we do finish 6th I think Kenny will either walk or be eased out. John Henry has publicly set a CL place as the target for this season. He may be a nice guy but I don't think anyone should confuse that with weakness.
[/quote]

Yeah it's Champions League or bust for Kenny and he'll not need some nobody like me on a football forum to tell him that.

The Owners didn't give Kenny a massive sum of money to spend for a bit of fun.
[/quote]

I'm not sure that's the case. Let's not forget that Henry only said it would be "disappointing" to miss out on the top four, which is a standard enough remark. I think Kenny will be given another season, although his plans will be greater scrutinised before any cheques are signed, and rightly so, too.
[/quote]

I don't agree.

To me anyway, it seems the Owners have great faith in Kenny hence they gave him over £100 million to spend with the expectation of Champions League football at the first opportunity - especially as many of Kenny's signings were Prem League based and at an age where they can deliver from the off.
However, they'll feel badly let down if Kenny doesn't get us 4th at least and so they should.

They'll know the gap between the top 4 and ourselves will get bigger and bigger as we all know the Champions League creates big revenue, attracts the star players and whatnot. Not to mention the prospect of losing the likes of Reina and Suarez to Champions League sides.

 

[Woland]

I think the big difference under Dalglish that wasn't the same under the final days of Rafa or the abortive presence of hodgson is that it's not that they're playing shit, it's that we're playing shit.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Woland link=topic=47563.msg1428288#msg1428288 date=1321653913]
I think the big difference under Dalglish that wasn't the same under the final days of Rafa or the abortive presence of hodgson is that it's not that they're playing shit, it's that we're playing shit.
[/quote]

i get that, but i'm slightly ashamed to admit (not that most will be surprised) that for me it was the problems under rafa that hurt much more than under hodgson/dalglish. he was the one i was really on board with; i know it sounds terrible, and maybe it's just cos i'm jaded after everything that's happened, but i'm nowhere near as bothered by the current poor results as i was in, say, 09/10 or 06/07.

 

[doctor_mac]

I disagree. We're not playing shit. In the final days of Rafa and under Hodgson we didn't look like we were going to score, we got bullied away from home, and the footy was awful. We've created more chances than any team in the league, including megabucks Man City, and yeah, we've let ourselves down in terms of results, but I don't think we should be too downbeat. If we had a predator in the box right now we'd be flying. I'm still well on board.

 

[peterhague]

you disagree with what?

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47563.msg1428341#msg1428341 date=1321666057]
you disagree with what?
[/quote]

The post above yours numpty.

 

[refugee]

From now on I'm giving all new managers an extra long period of time before starting to question their results on the basis that they are not Roy fucking Hodgson.

The fact that the King is the current manager is an additional boon, so by my calculations he has 120 years of pressure free management before I start to evaluate their reign.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47563.msg1428345#msg1428345 date=1321666633]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47563.msg1428341#msg1428341 date=1321666057]
you disagree with what?
[/quote]

The post above yours numpty.
[/quote]

oh. oh, i see. carry on then. ahem.

 

[King Binny]

We know the gift Kenny Dalglish brought back to Anfield at the start of this year, we know how he reminded a great football club of what it used to be and what it might become once again.

But then if Dalglish couldn't do that, who could? Certainly not Rafa Benitez, for all the quasi-religious support that still rose up from so many corners of the city even after it was clear that whatever momentum and aura he once created had long disappeared – and of course Roy Hodgson was a mugging waiting to happen.

The trouble, if there was going to be any, was always likely to come in the longer run and there are some indications that not only has it already started but that it may well be given its most serious expression at Stamford Bridge tomorrow afternoon.

As messiahs go, Dalglish may have a longer shelf-life than most but slightly less than a year into his assignment some uncomfortable arguments are beginning to surface.

Most damaging is the suggestion – voiced with rising force after the extremely underwhelming goalless draw with Swansea City at Anfield – that if the hugely excoriated Hodgson was still in charge and had authored such a performance there would have been a tidal force of criticism.

As it is, a few sceptical voices have been heard – and received the usual disdain from the man who so illuminated the old ground in his playing days.

Dalglish does disdain almost as well as he used to cut the heart out of a rival defence. Willie McIlvanney, poet and creator of the world-weary cop Laidlaw, once suggested that the great player came across as a classic example of Glaswegian streetsmart-arseary. "You know how it is, you show a Glasgow street guy Helen of Troy and he will tell you: 'She's not the worst looking lassie I've ever seen'. Kenny always had quite a bit of that in him."

A little of it surfaced after the Swansea game. He was asked to comment on the boos which came when Liverpool not only failed to score but were required to play in a hush created by the Welsh club's ability to outpass their much more expensive opponents. Dalglish said he would wager the number of those booing was much less than those who were not. But then of course while street smartness may serve some purposes, it probably doesn't include addressing the stirrings of a perhaps seriously challenging problem.

Dalglish won his chance to re-animate the club he served so brilliantly because he understood that of all the needs of a professional footballer perhaps the greatest is a certain belief in the man who is directing him. That dissipated under Benitez and never survived the battering Hodgson took from the stands but there was always for Dalglish the obligation to build on his first impact. He created a superb change of mood and left the American owners with little or no option but to run with this new sense of regained horizons. They were even obliged to throw in some serious money.

Unfortunately, the unsayable is beginning to be said because for all the signings, all the old excitement of a club on the move, the now unavoidable truth is that the records of Kenny Dalglish and Roy Hodgson are not exactly separated by a chasm that might readily explain the joy with which one was received and the contempt that went into the dispatching of the other.

Hodgson averaged 1.25 points over 20 Premier League games, Dalglish is running at 1.80 in 29. In all competitions, Hodgson won 13, drew 9, lost 9 with a winning percentage of 0.42. Dalglish emerges only a little to the good with figures of managed 37, won 19, drew 9, lost 9 and a percentage at 0.51. Yes, we know that if there are statistics and damned lies there is also something else that builds over the football months. It is the sense of a team finding itself, moving towards the conviction that something quite soon might dramatically change all of the prospects.

It is a brave spirit that would make this claim on behalf of Liverpool at this formative stage of the season.

Their most luminous figure, and by a vast margin the most talented of their signings, Luis Suarez, has to emerge from his increasingly rancid disagreement with Patrice Evra before recovering all of the confidence that he is a player who might kickstart any season quite brilliantly – and as Dalglish curses the distraction of the racism controversy, he must also wonder if there will be a moment when his raid on the north-east for Andy Carroll and Jordan Henderson begins to look any less like one of the great misadventures of the transfer market.

Dalglish has reserved his most withering scorn for such questions and no doubt his nerve will hold strongly enough under the pressure produced by a Chelsea who are also being asked by their manager Andre Villas-Boas for some convincing evidence that they too are a team on the move.

It was, however, unlikely that Dalglish would not understand the scale of his challenge at Liverpool – or that the odds were against deliverance coming in his first full season.

That, though, has never been the unreasonable demand. It has been that Liverpool produce, sooner rather than later, some evidence that they have indeed moved back a little nearer to an old level of potential achievement.

It meant that when the boos drifted over Anfield, when another home draw against some of the Premier League's less weighty opposition signalled one more impasse, King Kenny would have probably been wise to pass on the street smarts. Helen of Troy's beauty is mostly self-evident. So, sometimes, is an unwelcome football reality.

 

[peterhague]

Where's that from? Who wrote it? Thanks.

 

[Insignificance]

All I can think off is Stonehenge...

 

[King Binny]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47563.msg1428446#msg1428446 date=1321696324]
Where's that from? Who wrote it? Thanks.
[/quote]

James Lawton

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/james-lawton-dalglishs-streetsmart-attitude-cant-disguise-liverpool-shabbiness-6264482.html

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=refugee link=topic=47563.msg1428348#msg1428348 date=1321666966]
From now on I'm giving all new managers an extra long period of time before starting to question their results on the basis that they are not Roy fucking Hodgson.

The fact that the King is the current manager is an additional boon, so by my calculations he has 120 years of pressure free management before I start to evaluate their reign.
[/quote]

Hahahaha. Yeah, pretty much this sums it up.

 

[Judge Jules]

I see Lawton's still peddling the crap about the fans doing Hodgson down, and is even putting a new twist on it by suggesting this affected the players' attitude towards the old face-rubber. The press are never going to give up on that garbage, are they?

 

[themn]

[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47563.msg1427548#msg1427548 date=1321568288]
[quote author=themn link=topic=47563.msg1427473#msg1427473 date=1321564301]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47563.msg1427465#msg1427465 date=1321563846]
[quote author=themn link=topic=47563.msg1427452#msg1427452 date=1321563441]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47563.msg1427446#msg1427446 date=1321562999]
[quote author=themn link=topic=47563.msg1427439#msg1427439 date=1321562871]
I DO NOT, ok !

Gary25 does.

Go on....
[/quote]

Do i? :laugh: ???
[/quote]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47561.msg1427430#msg1427430 date=1321562105]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=47561.msg1427363#msg1427363 date=1321556884]
Torres is coming back in the summer after Kenny steps down and rafa returns.
[/quote]

God, if only that was true.
[/quote]

What dat den ?
[/quote]

You're missing the point. Entirely!!

Tongue in cheek i replied to a post and you're taking it as if i want Kenny out, that's not the case.
[/quote]

Nah, son !

[/quote]

Except you didn't. Anyway, would it be such a big issue if i'd rather Rafa was our manager to Kenny, really would it?

Oh and i wouldn't be against Torres coming back. He'd walk into our team.
[/quote]

*hands Gary the keys to JCB*

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47563.msg1428460#msg1428460 date=1321698132]
I see Lawton's still peddling the crap about the fans doing Hodgson down, and is even putting a new twist on it by suggesting this affected the players' attitude towards the old face-rubber. The press are never going to give up on that garbage, are they?
[/quote]

no mate. it's a fucking shit article. i half-expected it to be Henry Winter.

 

[Wizardry]

[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=47563.msg1427544#msg1427544 date=1321568093]
I want Kenny to be a success and finish at least 4th this season. If we finish far off fourth (further than last season), I think he may have to reconsider his position unless he can point to some extenuating circumstances...
[/quote]

Let's be honest - there's absolutely no excuse at all for Kenny to finish further off 4th than last season. City finished top 4 last season and they'll certainly do so again. They're the only ones who have strengthened significantly so our direct rivals should not be getting any further ahead of us. On top of that we've spent significantly so, apart from city, we should be the ones who have improved. Finally our start last season was terrible. If we finish more than a few points off 4th or we don't, at a minimum, finish 5th then there is no argument that Kenny has taken us backwards. Given all the reasons why we should finish closer to 4th it's hard to imagine extenuating circumstances severe enough to justify such a failure.

I thought his signings were a mixed bag but his biggest mistake was Ming. That said, the net of those signings and Ming's departure is not the massive negative that our performances have demonstrated. Something else is wrong somewhere - for some reason the players aren't happy and they're not playing either for the club, each other or the fans.

Having said that I think Kenny has earned enough patience to have another season at least. Possibly not in this period of management but certainly in prior manager roles and absolutely his years at the club previously. I know we all demand it happen now........ yesterday but the reality is it obviously won't no matter who is there. I loved what Kenny had this team doing last season and I believe he's as likely to figure out how to recreate that as any other manager going around.