Are we on the brink ?

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38670.msg1044003#msg1044003 date=1264601585]
No.

I do think we are going to go through a period of drastic change though over the next 6 months.

1. I expect us to have a new manager come the start of the season.

2. A new investor/owner

3. Work to begin on our future home

As long as 2&3 happen then i'm convinced that we'll be on the right track.

"In Purslow i trust"


[/quote]

I'm sorry that it's come to this,Raf.

I do mean that.

 

[Atlas]

We are on the brink, there is a fine line it might just be one new player or lack of a player, it might be a few injuries, it might come down to the last minute of a game but once we get on the wrong side of that fine line shit really hits the fan. Lack of confidence, arguments, vicious rumours, a manager desperately struggling to 'G' his player up for games and being knocked out of a number of cash making cups all ensue.

People might say we are too big to go the route of Leeds and Newcastle, but we are not too big to drop out of the top 4 and continue to drop out of the top 6 and end up a mid table side. Like it or not this is all about the money or lack of it to compete at the higher level, We can't compete with Chelsea and City. The way to do it was the way Wenger has done slowly working away like a squirrel saving up for the winter and wait for the investment to grow, he was lucky he was afforded that time as there wasn't a side at the time to really knock them out of the top 4 (like City) although there were times when they were run close by Spurs and Villa.

Rafa will not be afforded that time now because City are such an imminent threat, our form has been terrible and I think it isn't showing huge signs of improvement.

The only slight hope of positivity I can cling onto is that a new investor is willing to take the jump and pump in lots of money and the yanks will sell because they have had enough of the headache they receive running the club. The cost of the club will probably go down due to the terrible season and this might urge more people to invest in the club.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Well he's got a very important role to play over the next few months Avvy.

 

[Y1]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38670.msg1044003#msg1044003 date=1264601585]
No.

I do think we are going to go through a period of drastic change though over the next 6 months.

1. I expect us to have a new manager come the start of the season.

2. A new investor/owner

3. Work to begin on our future home

As long as 2&3 happen then i'm convinced that we'll be on the right track.

"In Purslow i trust"


[/quote]

Change nick to Purslow4PM?

 

[Atlas]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38670.msg1044040#msg1044040 date=1264605708]
Well he's got a very important role to play over the next few months Avvy.
[/quote]

It's pretty sad when we start pinning our hopes on a non-playing staff member of the club.
Credit to the guy he has done well so far in healing rifts and bringing people to the table to discuss offers for the club, let's hope he can sort something out

 

[SaintGeorge67]

We're being overtaken and because of the ridiculous amounts of money involved these days, it will get harder.

When we broke records signing stubbins, dalglish, saunders, collymore etc, there were a whole host of clubs who could have done the same. Now there are 2 or 3.

Football is a farce these days.

 

[Dahuge]

If we fail to qualify for the CL we are fucked and won't get back in for a long long time.

We would lose torres, mascherano possibly reina, gerrard and agger.

The money from them wouldn't be re-invested as it would be needed to pay debt off meaning we couldn't replace those we lose meaning we fall further behind. We definitely wouldn't get a new stadium, the yanks would most likely rape the club of any assets to recoup some cash (sell melwood etc..)

Dire

 

[Sunny]

The main worry for me is that which Mark, Dahuge have alluded to. If we fail this year and are unable to repair the damage quickly - which could be unlikely given our current mix of board and manager - do we then enter a downward spiral that's going to be hard to break out of? It's frustrating and worrying.

 

[Atlas]

Was there not a UEFA initiative to have 5 prem teams playing in the Champions League? did I make that up?

 

[the count]

[quote author=Asim link=topic=38670.msg1044068#msg1044068 date=1264610089]
Was there not a UEFA initiative to have 5 prem teams playing in the Champions League? did I make that up?
[/quote]

I doubt that would ever happen under Monsieur Plattini.
He would be more likely to decrease the Premiership's representation in the Champions league.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Asim link=topic=38670.msg1044068#msg1044068 date=1264610089]
Was there not a UEFA initiative to have 5 prem teams playing in the Champions League? did I make that up?
[/quote]

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=the count link=topic=38670.msg1044072#msg1044072 date=1264610240]
[quote author=Asim link=topic=38670.msg1044068#msg1044068 date=1264610089]
Was there not a UEFA initiative to have 5 prem teams playing in the Champions League? did I make that up?
[/quote]

I doubt that would ever happen under Monsieur Plattini.
He would be more likely to decrease the Premiership's representation in the Champions league.
[/quote]

And it would be a complete cop out. We're all sitting here debating whether we can get 4th. I don't believe we can. 5th is embarrassing. We should be aiming always for 1st place, nothing less. That goal appears further and further away with every passing week and year.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

i really hope not ... but look on the bright side, at least Andy Gray won't hate us that much any more.

 

[SummerOnions]

This 'brink' thing may not be such a bad thing.

If we fcuk up, the owners will go, along with the least loyal players, and arguably the best.

We then start again, and use the academy as a base, pumping whatever possible into stadium funds, and play football people want to watch.

Basically, an Arsenal that win things with less of a cunty manager.

 

[Atlas]

At least we would still make some kind of money that will help us push on to 1st place, or at least challenging for it. Like you said (sunny) a downward spiral that's getting out of control right now.

 

[iseered]

meh even though last night was shit, and this season has been shit, we do have 3 wins and 2 draws from our last 5 games in the prem.
i think we will get 4th.

 

[manwithnoname]

"Play football people want to watch"?

Who gives a fuck?

Shankly built a club that plays football to win football matches. You don't get any trophies by playing 'nice football'

We're not fucking Spurs or those bellends at West Ham.

We exist to win trophies, not artistic merit

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38670.msg1044096#msg1044096 date=1264612638]
"Play football people want to watch"?

Who gives a fuck?

Shankly built a club that plays football to win football matches. You don't get any trophies by playing 'nice football'

We're not fucking Spurs or those bellends at West Ham.

We exist to win trophies, not artistic merit
[/quote]

It'd be nice to do both though

 

[manwithnoname]

It's almost impossible, really

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38670.msg1044096#msg1044096 date=1264612638]
"Play football people want to watch"?

Who gives a fuck?

Shankly built a club that plays football to win football matches. You don't get any trophies by playing 'nice football'
We're not fucking Spurs or those bellends at West Ham.

We exist to win trophies, not artistic merit
[/quote]
I think the scum did it.

But Id be happy to just win it and then start working on the "nice football"

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38670.msg1044048#msg1044048 date=1264608621]
We're being overtaken and because of the ridiculous amounts of money involved these days, it will get harder.

When we broke records signing stubbins, dalglish, saunders, collymore etc, there were a whole host of clubs who could have done the same. Now there are 2 or 3.

Football is a farce these days.
[/quote]

I think that's a bit harsh; it's not just about money..

It's about getting the right players and tactics and actually wanting to win.

HOw much money does Leeds have?

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38670.msg1044101#msg1044101 date=1264612913]
It's almost impossible, really
[/quote]

T oa degree. It;s just fucking hard to achieve. My memory serves me right the Mancs did it recently, and Arsenal when they were just unparalleled and Barca did it last season.


It'd be nice to be in the same bracket as them presently.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=38670.msg1044105#msg1044105 date=1264613079]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38670.msg1044048#msg1044048 date=1264608621]
We're being overtaken and because of the ridiculous amounts of money involved these days, it will get harder.

When we broke records signing stubbins, dalglish, saunders, collymore etc, there were a whole host of clubs who could have done the same. Now there are 2 or 3.

Football is a farce these days.
[/quote]

I think that's a bit harsh; it's not just about money..

It's about getting the right players and tactics and actually wanting to win.

HOw much money does Leeds have?
[/quote]

There are other factors, but money is the main problem in the game now (that's worded wrong, but you know what I mean). Football's a fucking joke now. I'm only 28 although I always used to watch any football that was on. Now I watch Liverpool and don't give a shit about anything else. I don't think I've watched a "Ford Super Sunday" all season if it didn't involve Liverpool.

 

[manwithnoname]

I generally speaking only watch Liverpool, too.

Unless it's a game of big interest for whatver reason

I watch hardly any football for 'pleasure'

Which is fortunate

 

[Rosco]

I definitely think we're on the brink, but I'm fed up reading doomsday scenarios and people dogmatically repeating "the money from sales won't be reinvested in new players" when they haven't a fucking clue whether it will be or not. I don't have a clue either but I don't bother commenting on it for that very reason.

I don't really understand the fuss over owners not talking, they don't run the day to day side of the business so it's not a major issue for me.

CL Qualification this year is the key. When you look at our finances for next year compared to last year, Purslow reckons we'll have an increase in 20m on the sponsorship side coming in next year. Add that to fact that our interest payments are way down (I think cut in half actually) that means there could be scope for a modest net spend next summer, provided we qualify for the Champions League. If we don't qualify I think our net spend will be, at best, zero.

All this talk of net spends though is only relevant because Rafa constantly buys the wrong players. If he was getting value for money people wouldn't even raise the issue, because there wouldn't be any criticism of him in that regard. I don't have any faith in Rafa building a title winning squad, he simply hasn't ever displayed the nous required in the market to get it done. I don't think he really ever knows what he needs, I don't think there's any cohesive strategy (panic buys, buying moderately talented back up which only ends up blocking the development of young talent).

We're definitely stuck in a rut right now and I don't know what will change it. I'm willing to bet changing the manager will though, because it's clear the team simply isn't playing for him. The squad that we have is performing well below it's potential at the moment and I think a manager who can get them playing for each other can have an immediate impact at the club regardless of finances available.

 

[SummerOnions]

I'd like to think so Ross.

The question then would be whether the owners could actually bring in someone competent enough for the job.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=38670.msg1044120#msg1044120 date=1264615985]
I'd like to think so Ross.

The question then would be whether the owners could actually bring in someone competent enough for the job.
[/quote]

I'd imagine it would be Purslow, assisted by Dalglish that would be tasked with finding a replacement. So I don't worry too much in that regard - Oncy's summation getting a good enough manager in another thread in the past couple of days puts it in perspective too.

I know people will bang on about Klinsmann being talked to last time, but you have to look at the circumstances of it. Rafa was threatening to quit repeatedly, Gillett already knew Klinsmann so it was convenient to talk to him about it to have a back up option in case Rafa's bluff needed to be called. It would be different this time.

 

[SummerOnions]

I wasn't just basing it on that, but yeah i get your point.

and after laying off Rafa for c. £4M or so, who could we afford to back?

 

[keniget]

Good post Ross. I wouldn't like to be quite as down on Rafa as you are, but I particularly agree with "I don't think he really ever knows what he needs".

 

[darkstarexodus]

For the first time, I am beginning to fear we are on the brink. This run-in and off-season could be among the most important in club history.