Aquilani To Leave On Loan

[Friend no. 2]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41516.msg1288377#msg1288377 date=1298224835]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=41516.msg1288346#msg1288346 date=1298218337]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=41516.msg1288339#msg1288339 date=1298217513]
Loaning out Aquilani never made any sense.

It was explained away as lowering the wage bill, protecting his value, etc, and then we went and signed an injury-prone Joe Cole or £90,000k a week.

I do think he could work under Dalglish. Aquilani is Mr Pass and Move.
[/quote]

Zackerly.
[/quote]

Questions about Cole's signing don't make Aquilani's loan a mistake. The club took a decision that Aquilani wasn't going to suit us after all - one which I agree with, however many other rickets those responsible may have dropped in other respects - and tried to sell him outright. Nobody went for it, so loaning him out was a necessary halfway house.

As it happens I agree that Dalglish's approach to the game would suit Aquilani better than either Rafa's or Roy's were going to. None of that addresses Aquilani's lack of (a) ability to cope with the pace and harshness of English football and (b) willingness to play here as opposed to back home in Italy.
[/quote]

It was a fucking horrible piece of business. When Budgie wanted Poulsen, he should have done a swap loan deal with Aqua and saved us 4 million, which could have improved our squad.

 

[Judge Jules]

That would have been an improvement, but it still doesn't change the fact that shifting Aquilani was the right thing to do.

 

[Squiggles]

It's way too early to draw any conclusion, let alone one so definitive.

The facts are we've given away a talented player away for a free for a year, expecting to see £12M/£13M at the end of it. Now predictably it's reported that they're trying to screw us on the price.

We should have sold or kept him. This half way measure suited only one party.

 

[Judge Jules]

That's a matter of opinion. He had a number of opportunities and, one or two flashes of skill aside, seemed to me to be pretty much lost in the rush. The very fact that he wasn't given more opportunities, at a time when we didn't actually have that many options, seems fairly telling to me.

What isn't in doubt is how he'd feel now about having to leave Italy, a prospect he'd relish about as much as he would a fart in a diving suit.

 

[Mersey86]

So, we've let Juventus have our 20m midfielder for a year and there was an agreement to buy at the end which they have announced they will not honour, but intend to significantly undercut.
I understand the arguments about shop window and 'he wants to play in Italy', but I object to us leaving Juve with the use of a player who has been so valuable for them. Bring him back, sell him to someone else in Italy in the summer (even if its just 5m don't do this business with Juventus) and protect our investment by ensuring he avoids injury until then.
That's if the reports are true.

 

[RolandG]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Aquilani wouldn't have featured under Roy. He never played the type of football that suited the club or Aquilani.

The club made mistakes starting with Roy and the domino effect followed.

Aquilani would thrive under Kenny but whether he wants to be here is another story. As it is, he is under contract and a Liverpool player.

Lay down the law with Juve and recall him now. Let's call their bluff and see what they do then. Re-integrate Alberto now!

 

[Judge Jules]

I suspect they can insist on keeping him till the summer. Agree otherwise - I'm by NO means suggesting we let Juventus get away with the chicanery they're trying on with us.

 

[RolandG]

JJ, those Juve bastards are crying and pleading poverty yet considering a hefty bid for Rossi. I say fuck 'em!

 

[Modo]

We're the ones with the upper hand here. I really don't see the problem.
Aqualini should be professional and return if they don't pay what he's worth.

 

[Judge Jules]

He'll have to at that stage if we say so. I don't think that would be a good move for anybody involved (though I respect the contrary view) but I'd reluctantly go along with it if Juventus persist in their attempt at daylight robbery.

 

[Wilko7]

Turin's Old Lady appears to be acting like cheap old slag.

 

[Modo]

[size=12pt]Juve expect Aquilani talks
[/size]
By Simone Bargellini Last updated: 20th February 2011

Juventus boss Giuseppe Marotta fully expects to make the loan signing of Alberto Aquilani permanent in the summer.

The Italian is on loan from Liverpool, where he made a £20million move from Roma in 2009, and has rediscovered his form since returning to his homeland.

Aquilani has previously stated his desire to remain with the Turin giants and that now appears likely as Marotta plans a meeting with the Reds in the near future.

"Aquilani is a player of value and is doing very well, we're happy," said Marotta.

"He has to feel comfortable because the fact that we took him on loan didn't mean that we had to evaluate him.

"His qualities have been known since he played in the youth of Roma and in the national team.

"In due time we'll meet with Liverpool and we will do everything to keep him with us."

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41516.msg1288397#msg1288397 date=1298227817]
That would have been an improvement, but it still doesn't change the fact that shifting Aquilani was the right thing to do.
[/quote]How was it the right thing to do? I can understand the logic in selling him if we didnt want him but loaning him out and signing Poulsen in his stead was retarded. NOT the right thing, as evidenced by the fact that under Hodgson (the man who took that decision) saw HIS Liverpool lose game after game after game and be sat 3 points above relegation with a negative goal difference at the turn of the year.
How we could have used a player who can make something happen.

 

[Jack D Rips]

If ever proof were needed of Roy Hodgson's ineptness then this was it. Loaning out a £20m player and buying Poulsen for £5m from the same club. Having said that, if the deal was done with an agreement to sell after a year for £12m then Aqua should not be sold for one penny less. Pay up Juve, you cunts, or sell him to someone else or bring him back.

 

[Avmenon]

I think we're confusing like for like though.

Poulsen and Konchesky were actually indicators of very poor execution of a good idea; rightly or wrongly, Hodgson wanted a DM and a LB, problem was they were shit.

Aquilani was never trusted by any of his managers and Hodgson brought in Ming as his replacement; Ming is good, but you have to wonder what HOdgson saw in him to decide his best position was on the wing.

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=Avvy link=topic=41516.msg1288517#msg1288517 date=1298249894]
I think we're confusing like for like though.

Poulsen and Konchesky were actually indicators of very poor execution of a good idea; rightly or wrongly, Hodgson wanted a DM and a LB, problem was they were shit.

Aquilani was never trusted by any of his managers and Hodgson brought in Ming as his replacement; Ming is good, but you have to wonder what HOdgson saw in him to decide his best position was on the wing.
[/quote]

Apparently Ming had long been scouted by the club before Hodgson signed him.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41516.msg1288490#msg1288490 date=1298245684]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41516.msg1288397#msg1288397 date=1298227817]
That would have been an improvement, but it still doesn't change the fact that shifting Aquilani was the right thing to do.
[/quote]How was it the right thing to do? I can understand the logic in selling him if we didnt want him but loaning him out and signing Poulsen in his stead was retarded. NOT the right thing, as evidenced by the fact that under Hodgson (the man who took that decision) saw HIS Liverpool lose game after game after game and be sat 3 points above relegation with a negative goal difference at the turn of the year.
How we could have used a player who can make something happen.


[/quote]

The fact that the arrangements were botched simply isn't relevant to the question whether we should have kept the man or not. And I'm not really interested in "can make something happen". I'm interested in "does make something happen", and we're never going to agree on whether or not that applied to Aquilani while he was here to any worthwhile extent.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41516.msg1288582#msg1288582 date=1298276957]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41516.msg1288490#msg1288490 date=1298245684]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41516.msg1288397#msg1288397 date=1298227817]
That would have been an improvement, but it still doesn't change the fact that shifting Aquilani was the right thing to do.
[/quote]How was it the right thing to do? I can understand the logic in selling him if we didnt want him but loaning him out and signing Poulsen in his stead was retarded. NOT the right thing, as evidenced by the fact that under Hodgson (the man who took that decision) saw HIS Liverpool lose game after game after game and be sat 3 points above relegation with a negative goal difference at the turn of the year.
How we could have used a player who can make something happen.


[/quote]

The fact that the arrangements were botched simply isn't relevant to the question whether we should have kept the man or not. And I'm not really interested in "can make something happen". I'm interested in "does make something happen", and we're never going to agree on whether or not that applied to Aquilani while he was here to any worthwhile extent.
[/quote]Of course its relevant. Our 5th most expensive player ever is scoring goals and getting raves in Italy while we were flirting with relegation.
No one would have complained if Roy had said 'I dont rate him' and signed Steven Defour (eg) but to say he cant gaurentee him games and then play those sacks of shit Cole, Jovanovic, Poulsen, Konchesky etc is beyond belief.
I know we arent going to agree JJ, youve clearly got some bee in your bonnet about him and are choosing to ignore his two goals and 5 or 6 assists in a dozen starts to say he never does anything but jump out of challenges. Fair do's

 

[Y1]

Is it only me who cannot see Aquaman playing the few times I watched juventus play?

How is that he gets rave reviews when he does not play, as some of us here suggest he is?

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41516.msg1288614#msg1288614 date=1298280917]
Is it only me who cannot see Aquaman playing the few times I watched juventus play?

How is that he gets rave reviews when he does not play, as some of us here suggest he is?
[/quote]Its a myth. He died about 6 months ago.

'WEEKEND AT JAMIES'

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41516.msg1288397#msg1288397 date=1298227817]
That would have been an improvement, but it still doesn't change the fact that shifting Aquilani was the right thing to do.
[/quote]

Given how thin our squad was, and how short of creative options we were are, it was a fucking daft thing to do.

We shouldn't budge on the asking price, and I must admit I wouldn't have any problem with him returning if it isn't met either.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41516.msg1288588#msg1288588 date=1298277626]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41516.msg1288582#msg1288582 date=1298276957]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41516.msg1288490#msg1288490 date=1298245684]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41516.msg1288397#msg1288397 date=1298227817]
That would have been an improvement, but it still doesn't change the fact that shifting Aquilani was the right thing to do.
[/quote]How was it the right thing to do? I can understand the logic in selling him if we didnt want him but loaning him out and signing Poulsen in his stead was retarded. NOT the right thing, as evidenced by the fact that under Hodgson (the man who took that decision) saw HIS Liverpool lose game after game after game and be sat 3 points above relegation with a negative goal difference at the turn of the year.
How we could have used a player who can make something happen.


[/quote]

The fact that the arrangements were botched simply isn't relevant to the question whether we should have kept the man or not. And I'm not really interested in "can make something happen". I'm interested in "does make something happen", and we're never going to agree on whether or not that applied to Aquilani while he was here to any worthwhile extent.
[/quote]Of course its relevant. Our 5th most expensive player ever is scoring goals and getting raves in Italy while we were flirting with relegation.
No one would have complained if Roy had said 'I dont rate him' and signed Steven Defour (eg) but to say he cant gaurentee him games and then play those sacks of shit Cole, Jovanovic, Poulsen, Konchesky etc is beyond belief.
I know we arent going to agree JJ, youve clearly got some bee in your bonnet about him and are choosing to ignore his two goals and 5 or 6 assists in a dozen starts to say he never does anything but jump out of challenges. Fair do's
[/quote]

Oncy, he's been scoring goals and getting rave reviews BECAUSE he's in Italy and not here - witness his emphatic public statements on the question whether he'd like to stay there. That's the point you and some others seem determined to airbrush out of this discussion. Even if I had been convinced in theory by the arguments for keeping him as a Prem player (and I've never denied he has talent - quite the contrary), in practice this would have worried me. It may incidentally give a clue to why Rafa also didn't play him even after he was fit.

 

[Insignificance]

My take on Aquaman is that the few apperances he had last season showed commitment to help the team drive forward. During his few games he was more often in the box than any CM we have had for 10 seasons. Now Raul is doing much the same.

COuld he do the job here? Yes absolutely. He is a fine, skilled, pass and move player which will suit us perfectly IF givwen the chance.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41516.msg1288691#msg1288691 date=1298286941]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41516.msg1288588#msg1288588 date=1298277626]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41516.msg1288582#msg1288582 date=1298276957]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41516.msg1288490#msg1288490 date=1298245684]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41516.msg1288397#msg1288397 date=1298227817]
That would have been an improvement, but it still doesn't change the fact that shifting Aquilani was the right thing to do.
[/quote]How was it the right thing to do? I can understand the logic in selling him if we didnt want him but loaning him out and signing Poulsen in his stead was retarded. NOT the right thing, as evidenced by the fact that under Hodgson (the man who took that decision) saw HIS Liverpool lose game after game after game and be sat 3 points above relegation with a negative goal difference at the turn of the year.
How we could have used a player who can make something happen.


[/quote]

The fact that the arrangements were botched simply isn't relevant to the question whether we should have kept the man or not. And I'm not really interested in "can make something happen". I'm interested in "does make something happen", and we're never going to agree on whether or not that applied to Aquilani while he was here to any worthwhile extent.
[/quote]Of course its relevant. Our 5th most expensive player ever is scoring goals and getting raves in Italy while we were flirting with relegation.
No one would have complained if Roy had said 'I dont rate him' and signed Steven Defour (eg) but to say he cant gaurentee him games and then play those sacks of shit Cole, Jovanovic, Poulsen, Konchesky etc is beyond belief.
I know we arent going to agree JJ, youve clearly got some bee in your bonnet about him and are choosing to ignore his two goals and 5 or 6 assists in a dozen starts to say he never does anything but jump out of challenges. Fair do's
[/quote]

Oncy, he's been scoring goals and getting rave reviews BECAUSE he's in Italy and not here - witness his emphatic public statements on the question whether he'd like to stay there. That's the point you and some others seem determined to airbrush out of this discussion. Even if I had been convinced in theory by the arguments for keeping him as a Prem player (and I've never denied he has talent - quite the contrary), in practice this would have worried me. It may incidentally give a clue to why Rafa also didn't play him even after he was fit.
[/quote]Im not airbrushing it JJ. I flat out disagree.
I dont think where he is has anything to do with it. I think people who dont know any better claim there is a huge difference in attitude and physicality in Italy (and technicality in Spain) and it just isnt the case. Its a non argument for me. Good players are good players in any league. He is playing well BECAUSE he's being played not because he is in italy.
Nothing you can say will change that.

 

[Y1]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41516.msg1288618#msg1288618 date=1298281544]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41516.msg1288614#msg1288614 date=1298280917]
Is it only me who cannot see Aquaman playing the few times I watched juventus play?

How is that he gets rave reviews when he does not play, as some of us here suggest he is?
[/quote]Its a myth. He died about 6 months ago.

'WEEKEND AT JAMIES'
[/quote]

Ha. JJ says he has got great reviews, would love to see the stats.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41516.msg1288702#msg1288702 date=1298287945]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41516.msg1288691#msg1288691 date=1298286941]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41516.msg1288588#msg1288588 date=1298277626]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41516.msg1288582#msg1288582 date=1298276957]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41516.msg1288490#msg1288490 date=1298245684]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41516.msg1288397#msg1288397 date=1298227817]
That would have been an improvement, but it still doesn't change the fact that shifting Aquilani was the right thing to do.
[/quote]How was it the right thing to do? I can understand the logic in selling him if we didnt want him but loaning him out and signing Poulsen in his stead was retarded. NOT the right thing, as evidenced by the fact that under Hodgson (the man who took that decision) saw HIS Liverpool lose game after game after game and be sat 3 points above relegation with a negative goal difference at the turn of the year.
How we could have used a player who can make something happen.


[/quote]

The fact that the arrangements were botched simply isn't relevant to the question whether we should have kept the man or not. And I'm not really interested in "can make something happen". I'm interested in "does make something happen", and we're never going to agree on whether or not that applied to Aquilani while he was here to any worthwhile extent.
[/quote]Of course its relevant. Our 5th most expensive player ever is scoring goals and getting raves in Italy while we were flirting with relegation.
No one would have complained if Roy had said 'I dont rate him' and signed Steven Defour (eg) but to say he cant gaurentee him games and then play those sacks of shit Cole, Jovanovic, Poulsen, Konchesky etc is beyond belief.
I know we arent going to agree JJ, youve clearly got some bee in your bonnet about him and are choosing to ignore his two goals and 5 or 6 assists in a dozen starts to say he never does anything but jump out of challenges. Fair do's
[/quote]

Oncy, he's been scoring goals and getting rave reviews BECAUSE he's in Italy and not here - witness his emphatic public statements on the question whether he'd like to stay there. That's the point you and some others seem determined to airbrush out of this discussion. Even if I had been convinced in theory by the arguments for keeping him as a Prem player (and I've never denied he has talent - quite the contrary), in practice this would have worried me. It may incidentally give a clue to why Rafa also didn't play him even after he was fit.
[/quote]Im not airbrushing it JJ. I flat out disagree.
I dont think where he is has anything to do with it. I think people who dont know any better claim there is a huge difference in attitude and physicality in Italy (and technicality in Spain) and it just isnt the case. Its a non argument for me. Good players are good players in any league. He is playing well BECAUSE he's being played not because he is in italy.
Nothing you can say will change that.

[/quote]

I've read various interviews over the years with players who've actually experienced the different leagues, and have yet to see a single one who would agree with your summary above. In any case my view is based at least as much on Aquilani's own openly declared preference (which, to coin a phrase, nothing you can say will change) as it is on any general comparison of that kind.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41516.msg1288712#msg1288712 date=1298288806]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41516.msg1288702#msg1288702 date=1298287945]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41516.msg1288691#msg1288691 date=1298286941]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41516.msg1288588#msg1288588 date=1298277626]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41516.msg1288582#msg1288582 date=1298276957]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41516.msg1288490#msg1288490 date=1298245684]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41516.msg1288397#msg1288397 date=1298227817]
That would have been an improvement, but it still doesn't change the fact that shifting Aquilani was the right thing to do.
[/quote]How was it the right thing to do? I can understand the logic in selling him if we didnt want him but loaning him out and signing Poulsen in his stead was retarded. NOT the right thing, as evidenced by the fact that under Hodgson (the man who took that decision) saw HIS Liverpool lose game after game after game and be sat 3 points above relegation with a negative goal difference at the turn of the year.
How we could have used a player who can make something happen.


[/quote]

The fact that the arrangements were botched simply isn't relevant to the question whether we should have kept the man or not. And I'm not really interested in "can make something happen". I'm interested in "does make something happen", and we're never going to agree on whether or not that applied to Aquilani while he was here to any worthwhile extent.
[/quote]Of course its relevant. Our 5th most expensive player ever is scoring goals and getting raves in Italy while we were flirting with relegation.
No one would have complained if Roy had said 'I dont rate him' and signed Steven Defour (eg) but to say he cant gaurentee him games and then play those sacks of shit Cole, Jovanovic, Poulsen, Konchesky etc is beyond belief.
I know we arent going to agree JJ, youve clearly got some bee in your bonnet about him and are choosing to ignore his two goals and 5 or 6 assists in a dozen starts to say he never does anything but jump out of challenges. Fair do's
[/quote]

Oncy, he's been scoring goals and getting rave reviews BECAUSE he's in Italy and not here - witness his emphatic public statements on the question whether he'd like to stay there. That's the point you and some others seem determined to airbrush out of this discussion. Even if I had been convinced in theory by the arguments for keeping him as a Prem player (and I've never denied he has talent - quite the contrary), in practice this would have worried me. It may incidentally give a clue to why Rafa also didn't play him even after he was fit.
[/quote]Im not airbrushing it JJ. I flat out disagree.
I dont think where he is has anything to do with it. I think people who dont know any better claim there is a huge difference in attitude and physicality in Italy (and technicality in Spain) and it just isnt the case. Its a non argument for me. Good players are good players in any league. He is playing well BECAUSE he's being played not because he is in italy.
Nothing you can say will change that.

[/quote]

I've read various interviews over the years with players who've actually experienced the different leagues, and have yet to see a single one who would agree with your summary above. In any case my view is based at least as much on Aquilani's own openly declared preference (which, to coin a phrase, nothing you can say will change) as it is on any general comparison of that kind.


[/quote]

In fairness, players are always coming out with those kinds of comments when they are in the moment. The fact is, he wasn't getting regular football here, so it stands to reason that he would prefer it somewhere where he is. It's also not uncommon for players to make comments that ingratiate themselves with their new employer and the fans. I think you might be overstating their significance. If he came back here, there'd be some equally 'encouraging' comments about how he felt he never got a chance here, and how he's looking forward to showing what he can do. That's not to say he doesn't have a preference for Italy - he probably does. It's his home, it's hotter, he speaks the language etc. But I don't think you can simply derive from his comments that he would be fundamentally opposed to playing here.

 

[Judge Jules]

It's true that Aquilani hasn't said: "I won't play in England". What he *has* said, though, is "I am here [i.e.in Italy] to stay", which to me seems pretty unequivocal. It may well be that he'd try hard to re-adapt if he had to come back, but I have to doubt his - because I'd doubt anybody's - capacity actually to produce his best under such circumstances. We'll see.

 

[Avmenon]

This is a bit iffy though; I think many of us are thinking of what WE'D like to see.

And adding another creaticve player to the team isnt a bad idea; there is also the possibility that his dislike of English football is inextricably linked to the fact that both his managers refused to play him consistently.

But the idea that Kenny could convince him that he'd have a future here does seem a bit of a hard sell when he's getting regular football in Italy.

 

[the_khl]

I didn't really mind Aquaman but I'm not convinced one bit he's one for the Liverpool-future. I doubt he even wants to come back, as been said already.

Hopefully we can get a decent fee for him and move on.