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Any chance he'd ever drop Gerrard?

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[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39242.msg1067928#msg1067928 date=1268339096]
If I was Gerrard I'd be standing there wondering who I'd upset so much in a former life to be stuck in a team full to the brim of talentless plodders. I wouldn't blame him if he decided to fuck off in the summer. His timing of the Chelsea saga stunk but he'd be well within his rights to call it a day now.
[/quote]

being surround by dross no excuse for sub par performances, hating the manager is no excuse for sub par performances because the fans (the only people that count) are paying good money to see you perform. if nothing else gerrard should be busting a gut as its world cup year.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39242.msg1067932#msg1067932 date=1268339344]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39242.msg1067928#msg1067928 date=1268339096]
If I was Gerrard I'd be standing there wondering who I'd upset so much in a former life to be stuck in a team full to the brim of talentless plodders. I wouldn't blame him if he decided to fuck off in the summer. His timing of the Chelsea saga stunk but he'd be well within his rights to call it a day now.
[/quote]

being surround by dross no excuse for sub par performances, hating the manager is no excuse for sub par performances because the fans (the only people that count) are paying good money to see you perform. if nothing else gerrard should be busting a gut as its world cup year.
[/quote]

Yes he's having a shit season but he's carried us for far more.
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39242.msg1067935#msg1067935 date=1268339530]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39242.msg1067932#msg1067932 date=1268339344]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39242.msg1067928#msg1067928 date=1268339096]
If I was Gerrard I'd be standing there wondering who I'd upset so much in a former life to be stuck in a team full to the brim of talentless plodders. I wouldn't blame him if he decided to fuck off in the summer. His timing of the Chelsea saga stunk but he'd be well within his rights to call it a day now.
[/quote]

being surround by dross no excuse for sub par performances, hating the manager is no excuse for sub par performances because the fans (the only people that count) are paying good money to see you perform. if nothing else gerrard should be busting a gut as its world cup year.
[/quote]

Yes he's having a shit season but he's carried us for far more.
[/quote]

don't get me wrong I'm not jumping on his back, gerrard has more than earned the benefit of the doubt with season after season of almost flawless quality
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39242.msg1067932#msg1067932 date=1268339344]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39242.msg1067928#msg1067928 date=1268339096]
If I was Gerrard I'd be standing there wondering who I'd upset so much in a former life to be stuck in a team full to the brim of talentless plodders. I wouldn't blame him if he decided to fuck off in the summer. His timing of the Chelsea saga stunk but he'd be well within his rights to call it a day now.
[/quote]

being surround by dross no excuse for sub par performances, hating the manager is no excuse for sub par performances because the fans (the only people that count) are paying good money to see you perform. if nothing else gerrard should be busting a gut as its world cup year.
[/quote]

Why would he be busting a gut cause its world cup year? Its not like he's gonna miss out on making the squad.

He really looks like someone who is completely fed up with things as they are at the club and its hard not to sympathise.
 
[quote author=Niall K link=topic=39242.msg1067937#msg1067937 date=1268339669]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39242.msg1067932#msg1067932 date=1268339344]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39242.msg1067928#msg1067928 date=1268339096]
If I was Gerrard I'd be standing there wondering who I'd upset so much in a former life to be stuck in a team full to the brim of talentless plodders. I wouldn't blame him if he decided to fuck off in the summer. His timing of the Chelsea saga stunk but he'd be well within his rights to call it a day now.
[/quote]

being surround by dross no excuse for sub par performances, hating the manager is no excuse for sub par performances because the fans (the only people that count) are paying good money to see you perform. if nothing else gerrard should be busting a gut as its world cup year.
[/quote]

Why would he be busting a gut cause its world cup year? Its not like he's gonna miss out on making the squad.

He really looks like someone who is completely fed up with things as they are at the club and its hard not to sympathise.
[/quote]

if torres were doing you could almost look the other way but its gerrard and gerrard is the CAPTAIN. I know times have changed but once upon a time that used to mean something.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39242.msg1067932#msg1067932 date=1268339344]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39242.msg1067928#msg1067928 date=1268339096]
If I was Gerrard I'd be standing there wondering who I'd upset so much in a former life to be stuck in a team full to the brim of talentless plodders. I wouldn't blame him if he decided to fuck off in the summer. His timing of the Chelsea saga stunk but he'd be well within his rights to call it a day now.
[/quote]

being surround by dross no excuse for sub par performances, hating the manager is no excuse for sub par performances because the fans (the only people that count) are paying good money to see you perform. if nothing else gerrard should be busting a gut as its world cup year.
[/quote]

Is there a chance hes NOT busting a gut because its world cup year?
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39242.msg1067928#msg1067928 date=1268339096]
If I was Gerrard I'd be standing there wondering who I'd upset so much in a former life to be stuck in a team full to the brim of talentless plodders. I wouldn't blame him if he decided to fuck off in the summer. His timing of the Chelsea saga stunk but he'd be well within his rights to call it a day now.
[/quote]

Agreed
 
This "he's surrounded by dross so his performances are excused" attitude is shte too. Did Zidane tell his teammates to get to fuck? Does Raul stop bothering? When did John Barnes give up?

If he's going to accept the plaudits and receive the accliam when things are going well, he's not then immune to criticism when things go the other way. That performance at Wigan stank the fucking house out, and had nothing to do with his teammates ineptitude.

I love him as much as anyone, and staggeringly - have had to defend him when endless cabbages on here proclaimed him to be "inferior to Alonso anyway" over the years, but he's been shite plenty of times this season, combined with a wank attitude, and the buck does need to stop with him at some stage.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39242.msg1067466#msg1067466 date=1268290939]
All this 'Gerrard kept him in a job' chat is frankly bollocks.



[/quote]

It was a few months after Istanbul when Stevie looked to be headed for Stamford Bridge and Rafa was giving "those" press conferences which sounded more like goodbye notes to our captain. You started a thread with a line very similar to "Rafa should get down on his fucking knees and kiss Steven Gerrards fucking ass". You then went on to point out that Rafa would have endured the season from hell at Liverpool had it not been for a captain who consistently came up with the biggest of goals at the biggest of moments to take he and the club to the greatest trophy in world club football.


I'll say now that I still believe this to be so even if you have moved on from it. It is, of course, simplistic but then I'm a very simplistic person. The reality is that Rafa needs, nay, is 100% reliant upon having players like Gerrard in his teams. He didn't want them at Valencia but he had them anyway because he didn't make the decisions. He didn't (IMO) really want Gerrard but it was one decision that no manager would have survived so - again - he didn't have the choice.

Rafa's teams are always built upon defense, loss prevention and, as such, it is only through the dynamic, exceptional match winners that his teams achieve victories. I intitially thought that Rafa simply didn't like attacking players but I now believe he simply doesn't understand them. Gerrard he would never have gone out and signed if given the choice. Torres is an exception to the rule, Owen and Morientes and Kuyt prove the rule, while Babel and our current situation on the wings are the consequence of the rule. I have no doubt that Babel would be a far more dangerous prospect had he signed for Arsenal, the mancs or even Villa.


I don't believe Rafa would have gotten anywhere near the top four last year or the year before had it not been for Gerrard. I absolutely do not believe that 45m from the sale of Gerrard would have bought us anyone nearly capable of replacing his attacking, goal scoring prowess because these simply aren't the qualities that Rafa either desires or understands. This season Gerrard has been sadly off form or injured and the result is a team that will be lucky to make the top 7. We've had a team designed, built and founded on defense; it's success has come from the ability of someone like Gerrard to win games on his own and with an exceptional partner in Torres. That has made us incredibly reliant on the two of them to compete at the top and a spanner in the wrong area - ie Gerrard off form/injured has seen us drop through the table like a stone.
 
Good post Wiz, and one that echoes in some ways my equally excellent 'Benitez's tactics needs 14 players'

The essence of Benitez is that his ideal Central Midfielder is Lucas
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39242.msg1067928#msg1067928 date=1268339096]
If I was Gerrard I'd be standing there wondering who I'd upset so much in a former life to be stuck in a team full to the brim of talentless plodders. I wouldn't blame him if he decided to fuck off in the summer. His timing of the Chelsea saga stunk but he'd be well within his rights to call it a day now.
[/quote]

Whether Gerrard is or isn't on the pitch at present won't make the team any more or less effective than it currently is. Just look at the results.

It's as plain as the nose on your face that the players are not playing as a team and that is a function of coaching, management and leadership, especially on the pitch.

Quite obviously the Manager and the Captain are not together and I expect the coaching team are split as well.

One of them has to go.

By the way I don't accept the players are 'talentless plodders' but naturally they are effected by rift.
 
Its easy to see why Gerrard looks so pissed off.

There was a move last night where Gerrard had dropped 10 yards and at a 45 degree angle off Torres. All we needed from Lucas was a 15 yard pass to Gerrard's feet for him to clip it round the corner and put Torres in. Lucas dilly dally'd around, ended up passing the ball sideways and Gerrard looked up to the skies. Story of our season.
 
[quote author=Whitey85 link=topic=39242.msg1068294#msg1068294 date=1268387387]
Its easy to see why Gerrard looks so pissed off.
[/quote]

He needs to grow up then.
 
[quote author=Whitey85 link=topic=39242.msg1068294#msg1068294 date=1268387387]
Its easy to see why Gerrard looks so pissed off.

There was a move last night where Gerrard had dropped 10 yards and at a 45 degree angle off Torres. All we needed from Lucas was a 15 yard pass to Gerrard's feet for him to clip it round the corner and put Torres in. Lucas dilly dally'd around, ended up passing the ball sideways and Gerrard looked up to the skies. Story of our season.
[/quote]

Quite. Watching those two in the same team is like visiting a Michelin-Starred restaurant and getting veal ossobucco in a rat-piss sauce.

Gerrard isn't immune from criticism, or indeed being dropped, but there are many reasons why he won't be (and probably shouldn't be), even leaving to one side the fact that he is a local/ Captain/ talisman/ fan favourite blah blah blah and one of them is this:

Even when not playing well, he is still very capable of a pass, shot or piece of skill that nobody else would think of, never mind execute, that can change a game or indeed win it.

Compare that with The Invisible Cunt.

That's why he should never be dropped.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39242.msg1068337#msg1068337 date=1268391744]


Compare that with The Invisible Cunt.


[/quote]

yossi or lucas?
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39242.msg1068344#msg1068344 date=1268392085]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39242.msg1068337#msg1068337 date=1268391744]


Compare that with The Invisible Cunt.


[/quote]

yossi or lucas?
[/quote]

The Midfield Mediocrity
The Anti-Brazilian
Lucarse
One Of The Worst Central Midfielders To Ever Play For The Club.

That fella.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39242.msg1068346#msg1068346 date=1268392441]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39242.msg1068344#msg1068344 date=1268392085]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39242.msg1068337#msg1068337 date=1268391744]


Compare that with The Invisible Cunt.


[/quote]

yossi or lucas?
[/quote]

The Midfield Mediocrity
The Anti-Brazilian
Lucarse
One Of The Worst Central Midfielders To Ever Play For The Club.

That fella.
[/quote]

ha ha who do you hate more lucas or insua? I'm not that bothered about lucas but insua...
 
Who should he make way for then, if he was dropped?

If Gerrard is dropped and Lucarse isn't, it would mean that Benitez was insane
 
Steven Gerrard Could Learn from Terry After Uncommitted Liverpool Performances

For so long, it has been the technical inabilities of the likes of Emiliano Insua, Lucas, and David N’gog that Liverpool fans have been lamenting, but on Monday night against Wigan something much more serious was called into question.

Does Liverpool really have the fight to battle their way to fourth place?

Are players displaying the right attitude on the pitch?

Is there anybody taking responsibility?

For a club traditionally associated with their battling qualities, immense hard work, and unnerving determination to succeed, it comes as quite a shock for such doubts to be raised.

The current crop of Liverpool players should be thoroughly embarrassed at the way they performed on Monday.

Whether players have fallen out of love with Rafa Benitez or not, there is no excuse for a performance so lacking in commitment, leadership, and responsibility. Steven Gerrard probably played one of his worst games since turning professional, and his attitude is cause for serious concern for Liverpool fans at the moment. His head is constantly turned downwards and he shows few signs of encouragement to teammates.

It may sound strange, but Gerrard could learn from Chelsea captain John Terry.

In the face of enormous adversity, Terry has battled through non-handshakes, stinging criticism from all corners of the country and media derision to lead Chelsea to within two points of top spot in the Premier League, with a game in hand.

Terry has made technical mistakes in the past few weeks, but his immense leadership on the pitch has been obvious for all to see.

It may have angered many, but his celebration on Sunday after scoring against Stoke spoke of man committed to leading his club to silverware, no matter what it takes.

Gerrard must start to display such determination to the Liverpool cause.

Does he want to play Champions League football next season?

At the moment it would be hard to tell.

Of course, Gerrard is not the only underperforming Liverpool star. Though his recent injuries are partly accountable, Fernando Torres is yet to hit top form since returning. He has often been lethargic in possession in recent games, and continues to run into defenders and fall over far too often.

Dirk Kuyt is another who has performed poorly, particularly against Wigan on Monday when he gave the ball away consistently.

Fans accept that players will perform badly sometimes, but they can never tolerate a player giving below maximum effort. When Rafa Benitez said angrily that the attitude of his players on Monday night wasn’t right, Liverpool supporters really started to worry.

Everyone must take responsibility for guiding Liverpool to a Champions League spot, especially Gerrard. If Gerrard cares to tune in to Match of the Day on Saturday, he will see the commitment John Terry puts into captaining Chelsea.

If Gerrard then applies that against Portsmouth on Monday night, Liverpool may finally start to look like fourth-place favorites at last.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39242.msg1067542#msg1067542 date=1268300541]
I wonder that there may be at least some part of Gerrard's form, attitude and - yes - occasional petulance, that is down to his personal dislike of Benitez and the fact that he, and a few others, have had enough and want (or expect) him to go this summer
[/quote]

And that it must feel like his career and his natural ability have been largely wasted by the fat waiter's blindspots and crackpot methods
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39242.msg1068750#msg1068750 date=1268468042]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39242.msg1067542#msg1067542 date=1268300541]
I wonder that there may be at least some part of Gerrard's form, attitude and - yes - occasional petulance, that is down to his personal dislike of Benitez and the fact that he, and a few others, have had enough and want (or expect) him to go this summer
[/quote]

And that it must feel like his career and his natural ability have been largely wasted by the fat waiter's blindspots and crackpot methods
[/quote]

Yet he won various player of the year awards and scored more goals than he ever had in his career. Some waste.
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=39242.msg1068769#msg1068769 date=1268471629]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39242.msg1068750#msg1068750 date=1268468042]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39242.msg1067542#msg1067542 date=1268300541]
I wonder that there may be at least some part of Gerrard's form, attitude and - yes - occasional petulance, that is down to his personal dislike of Benitez and the fact that he, and a few others, have had enough and want (or expect) him to go this summer
[/quote]

And that it must feel like his career and his natural ability have been largely wasted by the fat waiter's blindspots and crackpot methods
[/quote]

Yet he won various player of the year awards and scored more goals than he ever had in his career. Some waste.
[/quote]

Despite being great achievements, they're hardly in the same league as winning league titles.
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=39242.msg1068629#msg1068629 date=1268423103]
No chance. Gerrard is bigger than the club. Fact
[/quote]

-speechless-
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39242.msg1069278#msg1069278 date=1268606727]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=39242.msg1068629#msg1068629 date=1268423103]
No chance. Gerrard is bigger than the club. Fact
[/quote]

-speechless-
[/quote]

he was being sarcastic...you'd hope.
 
Gerrard was a box to box midfielder on a team that was far too overreliant on his athleticism. It was a thing of joy watching him run twice as fast as a player counterattacking at full speed, hooking a sliding tackle around them, winning the ball, and launching off in the other direction. He saw so much of the ball and did so much that it actually wasn't great for team play sometimes, and above all else, it wasn't sustainable.

He was always going to have to settle down somewhat, and as Ryan said, tactics settled during the development of his career. Since then, both internationally and at Liverpool, he's been used in all sorts of roles. His CM days are behind him though, partially because he's such a great footballer, and so versatile, that we used him where we needed him most, and I don't think it can be argued that was a mistake for him either. He used to chafe at the idea that he wasn't still a CM, but now he doesn't seem to relish doing that work as much, and he definitely seems to love the constant involvement in attacking play and goalscoring that his stints at RM and AM brought.

I don't think now, that he doesn't have close to the same engine, you can put him back at CM consistently, and get the best out of him. I remember thinking years back that this would be the case inevitably. He deserves to be in a better functioning team, playing better, and it won't be at CM. I just hope that's with us.
 
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