Ancelotti
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Arsenal, United and Liverpool, his supposed big rivals for the title, all weakened their teams in the summer
Many people thought that Chelsea would be favourites, simply because they didn't
Many people thought that Chelsea would be favourites, simply because they didn't
Sometimes the strength of a manager is to take what's there and not let it collapse. Done that in spades this year.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39789.msg1086839#msg1086839 date=1271056845]
Arsenal, United and Liverpool, his supposed big rivals for the title, all weakened their teams in the summer
Many people thought that Chelsea would be favourites, simply because they didn't
[/quote]
I'll go with that ... Though you still have to 'win' it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Pompey beats Chelsea though.
Arsenal, United and Liverpool, his supposed big rivals for the title, all weakened their teams in the summer
Many people thought that Chelsea would be favourites, simply because they didn't
[/quote]
I'll go with that ... Though you still have to 'win' it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Pompey beats Chelsea though.
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39789.msg1086847#msg1086847 date=1271057736]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39789.msg1086839#msg1086839 date=1271056845]
Arsenal, United and Liverpool, his supposed big rivals for the title, all weakened their teams in the summer
Many people thought that Chelsea would be favourites, simply because they didn't
[/quote]
I'll go with that ... Though you still have to 'win' it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Pompey beats Chelsea though.
[/quote]
No, I'm not trying to denigrate his achievement, if he wins the title then all respect, but I didn't fancy United to win four on the bounce at the start of the season, and Chelsea were always my pick.
That said, I didn't really expect United to get even this close. Given how often everybody has lost games again, it just makes it even more galling that we didn't use the Alonso money more wisely last summer.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39789.msg1086839#msg1086839 date=1271056845]
Arsenal, United and Liverpool, his supposed big rivals for the title, all weakened their teams in the summer
Many people thought that Chelsea would be favourites, simply because they didn't
[/quote]
I'll go with that ... Though you still have to 'win' it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Pompey beats Chelsea though.
[/quote]
No, I'm not trying to denigrate his achievement, if he wins the title then all respect, but I didn't fancy United to win four on the bounce at the start of the season, and Chelsea were always my pick.
That said, I didn't really expect United to get even this close. Given how often everybody has lost games again, it just makes it even more galling that we didn't use the Alonso money more wisely last summer.
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39789.msg1086847#msg1086847 date=1271057736]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39789.msg1086839#msg1086839 date=1271056845]
Arsenal, United and Liverpool, his supposed big rivals for the title, all weakened their teams in the summer
Many people thought that Chelsea would be favourites, simply because they didn't
[/quote]
I'll go with that ... Though you still have to 'win' it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Pompey beats Chelsea though.
[/quote]
no chance
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39789.msg1086839#msg1086839 date=1271056845]
Arsenal, United and Liverpool, his supposed big rivals for the title, all weakened their teams in the summer
Many people thought that Chelsea would be favourites, simply because they didn't
[/quote]
I'll go with that ... Though you still have to 'win' it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Pompey beats Chelsea though.
[/quote]
no chance
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39789.msg1086850#msg1086850 date=1271058263]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39789.msg1086847#msg1086847 date=1271057736]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39789.msg1086839#msg1086839 date=1271056845]
Arsenal, United and Liverpool, his supposed big rivals for the title, all weakened their teams in the summer
Many people thought that Chelsea would be favourites, simply because they didn't
[/quote]
I'll go with that ... Though you still have to 'win' it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Pompey beats Chelsea though.
[/quote]
No, I'm not trying to denigrate his achievement, if he wins the title then all respect, but I didn't fancy United to win four on the bounce at the start of the season, and Chelsea were always my pick.
That said, I didn't really expect United to get even this close. Given how often everybody has lost games again, it just makes it even more galling that we didn't use the Alonso money more wisely last summer.[/quote]
That and then imagine we've had a litte more than an additional £3.5M to spend from.
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39789.msg1086847#msg1086847 date=1271057736]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39789.msg1086839#msg1086839 date=1271056845]
Arsenal, United and Liverpool, his supposed big rivals for the title, all weakened their teams in the summer
Many people thought that Chelsea would be favourites, simply because they didn't
[/quote]
I'll go with that ... Though you still have to 'win' it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Pompey beats Chelsea though.
[/quote]
No, I'm not trying to denigrate his achievement, if he wins the title then all respect, but I didn't fancy United to win four on the bounce at the start of the season, and Chelsea were always my pick.
That said, I didn't really expect United to get even this close. Given how often everybody has lost games again, it just makes it even more galling that we didn't use the Alonso money more wisely last summer.[/quote]
That and then imagine we've had a litte more than an additional £3.5M to spend from.
Transfer spending only explains 16% of the variance between teams according to some study that was done a while back.
So it plays a much smaller part than everyone would have thought. The reason for that is that the majority of transfer money is wasted. That isn't something that excuses Rafa or any other manager of wasting money. There are people out there who exploit the stupidity of the rest of the market and we need to start doing that rather than being some of the biggest wasters in the market.
Quick example - Real got rid of Robben and Schneider because they wanted to replace them with the more hyped and pricey Ronaldo and Kaka.
Inter and Bayern are in the semi finals of the CL with thanks to those two players that Madrid got rid of. Madrid aren't.
So it plays a much smaller part than everyone would have thought. The reason for that is that the majority of transfer money is wasted. That isn't something that excuses Rafa or any other manager of wasting money. There are people out there who exploit the stupidity of the rest of the market and we need to start doing that rather than being some of the biggest wasters in the market.
Quick example - Real got rid of Robben and Schneider because they wanted to replace them with the more hyped and pricey Ronaldo and Kaka.
Inter and Bayern are in the semi finals of the CL with thanks to those two players that Madrid got rid of. Madrid aren't.
This is a specious argument.
Given a choice between having Kaka and Ronaldo, or Snjeider and Robben, I think I know which two most fans would have chosen. The better two.
Oh, and for anyone who wants to know exactly why this "argument" (I'm loathe to even call it that) is specious, Madrid didn't make the semi-finals of the CL WITH those two players either. In fact, they got beat 5-0 on aggregate to Liverpool.
It's not the argument you have a problem with, it's the example.
And it stands up. Inter and Bayern took something that was undervalued by Madrid and made something out of it while Madrid spent 140m on Ronaldo and Kaka to finish second in the league and not win the CL again.
And it stands up. Inter and Bayern took something that was undervalued by Madrid and made something out of it while Madrid spent 140m on Ronaldo and Kaka to finish second in the league and not win the CL again.
So they shouldn't have improved the team and just kept Robben and Snjeiderv
Great stuff
Great stuff
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39789.msg1086886#msg1086886 date=1271062916]
So they shouldn't have improved the team and just kept Robben and Snjeiderv
Great stuff
[/quote]
No I'm not saying that. It's incredible the amount of strawman arguments you'll come up with when you've been shown to have been wrong.
I'm saying they wasted a shit load of money in trying to improve the team. Thus proving the first line of my post above that only a small part of a teams success is down to how much money it spends.
So they shouldn't have improved the team and just kept Robben and Snjeiderv
Great stuff
[/quote]
No I'm not saying that. It's incredible the amount of strawman arguments you'll come up with when you've been shown to have been wrong.
I'm saying they wasted a shit load of money in trying to improve the team. Thus proving the first line of my post above that only a small part of a teams success is down to how much money it spends.
They wanted to improve the team. They bought players that they thought would do so. Those players are better than the ones they sold.
I'm not sure what fucking point you're trying to make here, but if it's a correlation between money spent and success, no argument here.
If it's also something about money not being the ONLY factor in success, again no argument here.
Perhaps you would have been better served in making it clearer, rather than quacking on about Robben and Kaka, or whoever.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39789.msg1086891#msg1086891 date=1271064077]
Apology accepted Brendan.
[/quote]
Now you're inventing apologies as well. Superb.
Apology accepted Brendan.
[/quote]
Now you're inventing apologies as well. Superb.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39789.msg1086893#msg1086893 date=1271064287]
I was reading between the lines
[/quote]
You're turning into Headwand
I was reading between the lines
[/quote]
You're turning into Headwand
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39789.msg1086887#msg1086887 date=1271063758]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39789.msg1086886#msg1086886 date=1271062916]
So they shouldn't have improved the team and just kept Robben and Snjeiderv
Great stuff
[/quote]
No I'm not saying that. It's incredible the amount of strawman arguments you'll come up with when you've been shown to have been wrong.
I'm saying they wasted a shit load of money in trying to improve the team. Thus proving the first line of my post above that only a small part of a teams success is down to how much money it spends.
[/quote]
Maybe there's some truth in that somewhere Ross but without a spending of around £200M Chelsea wouldn't be anywhere near as major a factor in todays football as they are. Same will probably be the scenario in Citys case.
As we've pretty much been trailing the likes of United and Arsenal over the past 20 years we've been in need of something quite similiar really or at least a high-capacity stadium.
So it's evident that no matter how bad Rafa spend the recouped Alonso- and Arbeloa money (whilst not even beeing allowed to re-spend the Keane-money mind) we've suffered from only having £3.5M at our disposal to strengthen at the start of the Season.
I'm not excusing Rafa here all I'm asking is some kind of perspective.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39789.msg1086886#msg1086886 date=1271062916]
So they shouldn't have improved the team and just kept Robben and Snjeiderv
Great stuff
[/quote]
No I'm not saying that. It's incredible the amount of strawman arguments you'll come up with when you've been shown to have been wrong.
I'm saying they wasted a shit load of money in trying to improve the team. Thus proving the first line of my post above that only a small part of a teams success is down to how much money it spends.
[/quote]
Maybe there's some truth in that somewhere Ross but without a spending of around £200M Chelsea wouldn't be anywhere near as major a factor in todays football as they are. Same will probably be the scenario in Citys case.
As we've pretty much been trailing the likes of United and Arsenal over the past 20 years we've been in need of something quite similiar really or at least a high-capacity stadium.
So it's evident that no matter how bad Rafa spend the recouped Alonso- and Arbeloa money (whilst not even beeing allowed to re-spend the Keane-money mind) we've suffered from only having £3.5M at our disposal to strengthen at the start of the Season.
I'm not excusing Rafa here all I'm asking is some kind of perspective.
In the past 20 years Lyon have gone from a second division side in France, to perennial league winners and CL knockout participants. And obviously they're in the semi finals this year.
That's a much bigger jump than we required KHL. They did it by being better in the transfer market than everyone else. They did it by using methods that your average fan would find objectionable. The man at the top is an excellent business man, he knows nothing about football, but he knows about value. He's assisted by his technical director who is an excellent judge of player. He was deemed too important to the club to be made it's manager, he was given a job for life instead as technical director. The manager at Lyon has changed regularly yet they've always been successful. The reason for that is every decision on a transfer is taken by a group of people, including the owner, the technical director and the manager. They figure that the collection of their expertise is better than one man making the call. They've been shown to be consistently correct. And they have a set of general principles for transfers that they try to stick to.
We could learn from them.
That's a much bigger jump than we required KHL. They did it by being better in the transfer market than everyone else. They did it by using methods that your average fan would find objectionable. The man at the top is an excellent business man, he knows nothing about football, but he knows about value. He's assisted by his technical director who is an excellent judge of player. He was deemed too important to the club to be made it's manager, he was given a job for life instead as technical director. The manager at Lyon has changed regularly yet they've always been successful. The reason for that is every decision on a transfer is taken by a group of people, including the owner, the technical director and the manager. They figure that the collection of their expertise is better than one man making the call. They've been shown to be consistently correct. And they have a set of general principles for transfers that they try to stick to.
We could learn from them.
[quote author=KHL link=topic=39789.msg1086897#msg1086897 date=1271065082]
So it's evident that no matter how bad Rafa spend the recouped Alonso- and Arbeloa money (whilst not even beeing allowed to re-spend the Keane-money mind) we've suffered from only having £3.5M at our disposal to strengthen at the start of the Season.
[/quote]
We got Aquilani, Johnson & The Greek for £3.5m? Wow, what a deal.
So it's evident that no matter how bad Rafa spend the recouped Alonso- and Arbeloa money (whilst not even beeing allowed to re-spend the Keane-money mind) we've suffered from only having £3.5M at our disposal to strengthen at the start of the Season.
[/quote]
We got Aquilani, Johnson & The Greek for £3.5m? Wow, what a deal.
.... and yes, Ancelotti has done an excellent job at Chelsea. He has a track record of winning with maturing players so he could keep Chelsea competitive for the next few seasons. They will be going all out for the CL next year, that is why Ancelotti was hired. I can see him doing it too.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39789.msg1086905#msg1086905 date=1271065911]
In the past 20 years Lyon have gone from a second division side in France, to perennial league winners and CL knockout participants. And obviously they're in the semi finals this year.
That's a much bigger jump than we required KHL. They did it by being better in the transfer market than everyone else. They did it by using methods that your average fan would find objectionable. The man at the top is an excellent business man, he knows nothing about football, but he knows about value. He's assisted by his technical director who is an excellent judge of player. He was deemed too important to the club to be made it's manager, he was given a job for life instead as technical director. The manager at Lyon has changed regularly yet they've always been successful. The reason for that is every decision on a transfer is taken by a group of people, including the owner, the technical director and the manager. They figure that the collection of their expertise is better than one man making the call. They've been shown to be consistently correct. And they have a set of general principles for transfers that they try to stick to.
We could learn from them.
[/quote]
Good post.
In the past 20 years Lyon have gone from a second division side in France, to perennial league winners and CL knockout participants. And obviously they're in the semi finals this year.
That's a much bigger jump than we required KHL. They did it by being better in the transfer market than everyone else. They did it by using methods that your average fan would find objectionable. The man at the top is an excellent business man, he knows nothing about football, but he knows about value. He's assisted by his technical director who is an excellent judge of player. He was deemed too important to the club to be made it's manager, he was given a job for life instead as technical director. The manager at Lyon has changed regularly yet they've always been successful. The reason for that is every decision on a transfer is taken by a group of people, including the owner, the technical director and the manager. They figure that the collection of their expertise is better than one man making the call. They've been shown to be consistently correct. And they have a set of general principles for transfers that they try to stick to.
We could learn from them.
[/quote]
Good post.
[quote author=KHL link=topic=39789.msg1086897#msg1086897 date=1271065082]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39789.msg1086887#msg1086887 date=1271063758]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39789.msg1086886#msg1086886 date=1271062916]
So they shouldn't have improved the team and just kept Robben and Snjeiderv
Great stuff
[/quote]
No I'm not saying that. It's incredible the amount of strawman arguments you'll come up with when you've been shown to have been wrong.
I'm saying they wasted a shit load of money in trying to improve the team. Thus proving the first line of my post above that only a small part of a teams success is down to how much money it spends.
[/quote]
Maybe there's some truth in that somewhere Ross but without a spending of around £200M Chelsea wouldn't be anywhere near as major a factor in todays football as they are. Same will probably be the scenario in Citys case.
As we've pretty much been trailing the likes of United and Arsenal over the past 20 years we've been in need of something quite similiar really or at least a high-capacity stadium.
So it's evident that no matter how bad Rafa spend the recouped Alonso- and Arbeloa money (whilst not even beeing allowed to re-spend the Keane-money mind) we've suffered from only having £3.5M at our disposal to strengthen at the start of the Season.
I'm not excusing Rafa here all I'm asking is some kind of perspective.
[/quote]
You can't go on saying 'I'm not excusing Rafa' when practically every post you make goes on to do just that, Kristian.
And when you spend 19 million on player, don't properly utilise him and then sell him for 12 million after 6 months I think you lose your right to complain about 'the Keane money'
I'd have loved to have seen more spending on better players; I'd just rather someone else did the job of buying them.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39789.msg1086887#msg1086887 date=1271063758]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39789.msg1086886#msg1086886 date=1271062916]
So they shouldn't have improved the team and just kept Robben and Snjeiderv
Great stuff
[/quote]
No I'm not saying that. It's incredible the amount of strawman arguments you'll come up with when you've been shown to have been wrong.
I'm saying they wasted a shit load of money in trying to improve the team. Thus proving the first line of my post above that only a small part of a teams success is down to how much money it spends.
[/quote]
Maybe there's some truth in that somewhere Ross but without a spending of around £200M Chelsea wouldn't be anywhere near as major a factor in todays football as they are. Same will probably be the scenario in Citys case.
As we've pretty much been trailing the likes of United and Arsenal over the past 20 years we've been in need of something quite similiar really or at least a high-capacity stadium.
So it's evident that no matter how bad Rafa spend the recouped Alonso- and Arbeloa money (whilst not even beeing allowed to re-spend the Keane-money mind) we've suffered from only having £3.5M at our disposal to strengthen at the start of the Season.
I'm not excusing Rafa here all I'm asking is some kind of perspective.
[/quote]
You can't go on saying 'I'm not excusing Rafa' when practically every post you make goes on to do just that, Kristian.
And when you spend 19 million on player, don't properly utilise him and then sell him for 12 million after 6 months I think you lose your right to complain about 'the Keane money'
I'd have loved to have seen more spending on better players; I'd just rather someone else did the job of buying them.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39789.msg1086978#msg1086978 date=1271078528]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=39789.msg1086897#msg1086897 date=1271065082]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39789.msg1086887#msg1086887 date=1271063758]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39789.msg1086886#msg1086886 date=1271062916]
So they shouldn't have improved the team and just kept Robben and Snjeiderv
Great stuff
[/quote]
No I'm not saying that. It's incredible the amount of strawman arguments you'll come up with when you've been shown to have been wrong.
I'm saying they wasted a shit load of money in trying to improve the team. Thus proving the first line of my post above that only a small part of a teams success is down to how much money it spends.
[/quote]
Maybe there's some truth in that somewhere Ross but without a spending of around £200M Chelsea wouldn't be anywhere near as major a factor in todays football as they are. Same will probably be the scenario in Citys case.
As we've pretty much been trailing the likes of United and Arsenal over the past 20 years we've been in need of something quite similiar really or at least a high-capacity stadium.
So it's evident that no matter how bad Rafa spend the recouped Alonso- and Arbeloa money (whilst not even beeing allowed to re-spend the Keane-money mind) we've suffered from only having £3.5M at our disposal to strengthen at the start of the Season.
I'm not excusing Rafa here all I'm asking is some kind of perspective.
[/quote]
You can't go on saying 'I'm not excusing Rafa' when practically every post you make goes on to do just that, Kristian.
And when you spend 19 million on player, don't properly utilise him and then sell him for 12 million after 6 months I think you lose your right to complain about 'the Keane money'
I'd have loved to have seen more spending on better players; I'd just rather someone else did the job of buying them.
[/quote]
Bollocks.
No-one really knows who bought Keane in the first place but still most of the money where re-couped hence they should be made available for transfers. I do not care one bit actually who bought him - it was a mistake he played like crap and was sold on and the money... well Gillett & Hicks probably had a mortgage-bill somewhere to attend.
How on earth anyone would try to defend this is beyond belief. But hey don't let that hold you back.
And no I'm not constantly making excuses for Rafa I'm merely claiming that I can see why we are in the current state we are. He's at fault but there's several other equally important factors.
I reckon you'd even be able to see those too if you gave it a bit of thought mate.
[quote author=KHL link=topic=39789.msg1086897#msg1086897 date=1271065082]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39789.msg1086887#msg1086887 date=1271063758]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39789.msg1086886#msg1086886 date=1271062916]
So they shouldn't have improved the team and just kept Robben and Snjeiderv
Great stuff
[/quote]
No I'm not saying that. It's incredible the amount of strawman arguments you'll come up with when you've been shown to have been wrong.
I'm saying they wasted a shit load of money in trying to improve the team. Thus proving the first line of my post above that only a small part of a teams success is down to how much money it spends.
[/quote]
Maybe there's some truth in that somewhere Ross but without a spending of around £200M Chelsea wouldn't be anywhere near as major a factor in todays football as they are. Same will probably be the scenario in Citys case.
As we've pretty much been trailing the likes of United and Arsenal over the past 20 years we've been in need of something quite similiar really or at least a high-capacity stadium.
So it's evident that no matter how bad Rafa spend the recouped Alonso- and Arbeloa money (whilst not even beeing allowed to re-spend the Keane-money mind) we've suffered from only having £3.5M at our disposal to strengthen at the start of the Season.
I'm not excusing Rafa here all I'm asking is some kind of perspective.
[/quote]
You can't go on saying 'I'm not excusing Rafa' when practically every post you make goes on to do just that, Kristian.
And when you spend 19 million on player, don't properly utilise him and then sell him for 12 million after 6 months I think you lose your right to complain about 'the Keane money'
I'd have loved to have seen more spending on better players; I'd just rather someone else did the job of buying them.
[/quote]
Bollocks.
No-one really knows who bought Keane in the first place but still most of the money where re-couped hence they should be made available for transfers. I do not care one bit actually who bought him - it was a mistake he played like crap and was sold on and the money... well Gillett & Hicks probably had a mortgage-bill somewhere to attend.
How on earth anyone would try to defend this is beyond belief. But hey don't let that hold you back.
And no I'm not constantly making excuses for Rafa I'm merely claiming that I can see why we are in the current state we are. He's at fault but there's several other equally important factors.
I reckon you'd even be able to see those too if you gave it a bit of thought mate.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Stu link=topic=39789.msg1086951#msg1086951 date=1271075759]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=39789.msg1086897#msg1086897 date=1271065082]
So it's evident that no matter how bad Rafa spend the recouped Alonso- and Arbeloa money (whilst not even beeing allowed to re-spend the Keane-money mind) we've suffered from only having £3.5M at our disposal to strengthen at the start of the Season.
[/quote]
We got Aquilani, Johnson & The Greek for £3.5m? Wow, what a deal.
[/quote]
Our team included Alonso, Arbeloa and Sami.
Then they went.
We then got some money to buy some new quality players for their positions.
Those money in addition of £3.5M was made available for transfers and Rafa spend them on Johnson, Kyrgiakos and Aquilani.
What would you reckon Mourinho would've done?
Actually you go on and name me the three players you would've bought and I'd even give you the benefit of hindsight. Of course you can buy a striker too if the other three areas can be addressed for lesser money.
[quote author=KHL link=topic=39789.msg1086897#msg1086897 date=1271065082]
So it's evident that no matter how bad Rafa spend the recouped Alonso- and Arbeloa money (whilst not even beeing allowed to re-spend the Keane-money mind) we've suffered from only having £3.5M at our disposal to strengthen at the start of the Season.
[/quote]
We got Aquilani, Johnson & The Greek for £3.5m? Wow, what a deal.
[/quote]
Our team included Alonso, Arbeloa and Sami.
Then they went.
We then got some money to buy some new quality players for their positions.
Those money in addition of £3.5M was made available for transfers and Rafa spend them on Johnson, Kyrgiakos and Aquilani.
What would you reckon Mourinho would've done?
Actually you go on and name me the three players you would've bought and I'd even give you the benefit of hindsight. Of course you can buy a striker too if the other three areas can be addressed for lesser money.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39789.msg1086875#msg1086875 date=1271061481]
Transfer spending only explains 16% of the variance between teams according to some study that was done a while back.
So it plays a much smaller part than everyone would have thought. The reason for that is that the majority of transfer money is wasted. That isn't something that excuses Rafa or any other manager of wasting money. There are people out there who exploit the stupidity of the rest of the market and we need to start doing that rather than being some of the biggest wasters in the market.
Quick example - Real got rid of Robben and Schneider because they wanted to replace them with the more hyped and pricey Ronaldo and Kaka.
Inter and Bayern are in the semi finals of the CL with thanks to those two players that Madrid got rid of. Madrid aren't.
[/quote]
Not sure what 16% of variance pertains to, but I'd reckon that it'll translate to 5-10 points. That's crucial at the top where the margin for error is much less. Ronaldo/Kaka gives you that bit of extra.
Transfer spending only explains 16% of the variance between teams according to some study that was done a while back.
So it plays a much smaller part than everyone would have thought. The reason for that is that the majority of transfer money is wasted. That isn't something that excuses Rafa or any other manager of wasting money. There are people out there who exploit the stupidity of the rest of the market and we need to start doing that rather than being some of the biggest wasters in the market.
Quick example - Real got rid of Robben and Schneider because they wanted to replace them with the more hyped and pricey Ronaldo and Kaka.
Inter and Bayern are in the semi finals of the CL with thanks to those two players that Madrid got rid of. Madrid aren't.
[/quote]
Not sure what 16% of variance pertains to, but I'd reckon that it'll translate to 5-10 points. That's crucial at the top where the margin for error is much less. Ronaldo/Kaka gives you that bit of extra.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39789.msg1086880#msg1086880 date=1271062377]
This is a specious argument.
Given a choice between having Kaka and Ronaldo, or Snjeider and Robben, I think I know which two most fans would have chosen. The better two.
Oh, and for anyone who wants to know exactly why this "argument" (I'm loathe to even call it that) is specious, Madrid didn't make the semi-finals of the CL WITH those two players either. In fact, they got beat 5-0 on aggregate to Liverpool.
[/quote]
Actually if i was a madrid fan i would have rathered we buy ronaldo and keep sniejder and robben and just not buy kaka at all.
This is a specious argument.
Given a choice between having Kaka and Ronaldo, or Snjeider and Robben, I think I know which two most fans would have chosen. The better two.
Oh, and for anyone who wants to know exactly why this "argument" (I'm loathe to even call it that) is specious, Madrid didn't make the semi-finals of the CL WITH those two players either. In fact, they got beat 5-0 on aggregate to Liverpool.
[/quote]
Actually if i was a madrid fan i would have rathered we buy ronaldo and keep sniejder and robben and just not buy kaka at all.
[quote author=KHL link=topic=39789.msg1086987#msg1086987 date=1271079961]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39789.msg1086978#msg1086978 date=1271078528]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=39789.msg1086897#msg1086897 date=1271065082]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39789.msg1086887#msg1086887 date=1271063758]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39789.msg1086886#msg1086886 date=1271062916]
So they shouldn't have improved the team and just kept Robben and Snjeiderv
Great stuff
[/quote]
No I'm not saying that. It's incredible the amount of strawman arguments you'll come up with when you've been shown to have been wrong.
I'm saying they wasted a shit load of money in trying to improve the team. Thus proving the first line of my post above that only a small part of a teams success is down to how much money it spends.
[/quote]
Maybe there's some truth in that somewhere Ross but without a spending of around £200M Chelsea wouldn't be anywhere near as major a factor in todays football as they are. Same will probably be the scenario in Citys case.
As we've pretty much been trailing the likes of United and Arsenal over the past 20 years we've been in need of something quite similiar really or at least a high-capacity stadium.
So it's evident that no matter how bad Rafa spend the recouped Alonso- and Arbeloa money (whilst not even beeing allowed to re-spend the Keane-money mind) we've suffered from only having £3.5M at our disposal to strengthen at the start of the Season.
I'm not excusing Rafa here all I'm asking is some kind of perspective.
[/quote]
You can't go on saying 'I'm not excusing Rafa' when practically every post you make goes on to do just that, Kristian.
And when you spend 19 million on player, don't properly utilise him and then sell him for 12 million after 6 months I think you lose your right to complain about 'the Keane money'
I'd have loved to have seen more spending on better players; I'd just rather someone else did the job of buying them.
[/quote]
Bollocks.
No-one really knows who bought Keane in the first place but still most of the money where re-couped hence they should be made available for transfers. I do not care one bit actually who bought him - it was a mistake he played like crap and was sold on and the money... well Gillett & Hicks probably had a mortgage-bill somewhere to attend.
How on earth anyone would try to defend this is beyond belief. But hey don't let that hold you back.
And no I'm not constantly making excuses for Rafa I'm merely claiming that I can see why we are in the current state we are. He's at fault but there's several other equally important factors.
I reckon you'd even be able to see those too if you gave it a bit of thought mate.
[/quote]
Bollocks is right.
'No one knows who bought Keane', ' I dont care who bought him' 'most of the money was recouped'
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39789.msg1086978#msg1086978 date=1271078528]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=39789.msg1086897#msg1086897 date=1271065082]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39789.msg1086887#msg1086887 date=1271063758]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39789.msg1086886#msg1086886 date=1271062916]
So they shouldn't have improved the team and just kept Robben and Snjeiderv
Great stuff
[/quote]
No I'm not saying that. It's incredible the amount of strawman arguments you'll come up with when you've been shown to have been wrong.
I'm saying they wasted a shit load of money in trying to improve the team. Thus proving the first line of my post above that only a small part of a teams success is down to how much money it spends.
[/quote]
Maybe there's some truth in that somewhere Ross but without a spending of around £200M Chelsea wouldn't be anywhere near as major a factor in todays football as they are. Same will probably be the scenario in Citys case.
As we've pretty much been trailing the likes of United and Arsenal over the past 20 years we've been in need of something quite similiar really or at least a high-capacity stadium.
So it's evident that no matter how bad Rafa spend the recouped Alonso- and Arbeloa money (whilst not even beeing allowed to re-spend the Keane-money mind) we've suffered from only having £3.5M at our disposal to strengthen at the start of the Season.
I'm not excusing Rafa here all I'm asking is some kind of perspective.
[/quote]
You can't go on saying 'I'm not excusing Rafa' when practically every post you make goes on to do just that, Kristian.
And when you spend 19 million on player, don't properly utilise him and then sell him for 12 million after 6 months I think you lose your right to complain about 'the Keane money'
I'd have loved to have seen more spending on better players; I'd just rather someone else did the job of buying them.
[/quote]
Bollocks.
No-one really knows who bought Keane in the first place but still most of the money where re-couped hence they should be made available for transfers. I do not care one bit actually who bought him - it was a mistake he played like crap and was sold on and the money... well Gillett & Hicks probably had a mortgage-bill somewhere to attend.
How on earth anyone would try to defend this is beyond belief. But hey don't let that hold you back.
And no I'm not constantly making excuses for Rafa I'm merely claiming that I can see why we are in the current state we are. He's at fault but there's several other equally important factors.
I reckon you'd even be able to see those too if you gave it a bit of thought mate.
[/quote]
Bollocks is right.
'No one knows who bought Keane', ' I dont care who bought him' 'most of the money was recouped'
Yes they do. Benitez wanted him. So he was bought for him.
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